Is Obama a socialist? What's your stance on health care reform?

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would not have universal health care.

</p>

<p>Really? Do you KNOW that? You’re a psychic, eh? Interesting!
But really, you have no way of knowing. Plus, if you want to take their views from then and put them today blacks would still be 3/5 of a person. </p>

<p>

People deserve what they have worked for in life.

Yes, because EVERYONE gets what they deserve. Please. </p>

<p>

If someone is not willing to work on a competitive basis and actually have goals in life, then they should not be given the same health care as someone who has worked his/her entire life and truly deserves health care.

</p>

<p>What about the people that worked their whole lives in the auto industry and are now homeless because we shipped jobs oversees? What about children who have never had the chance to work? What about soldiers who are disabled and can’t work? What about people who were disabled in other ways? What about the people that own the mom and pop shop that’s been in their family for generations and now can’t compete or get health care because of the WalMart that opened down the street? What about the students who can’t afford healthcare because they’re choosing to get an education and can’t get a full-time job at the same time? </p>

<p>

Socialism is not cool.

</p>

<p>Sorry, this literally made me LOL. </p>

<p>

Whatever happened to laissez faire?

Lmao. Give me a time when this happened IRL, in a globalized world. </p>

<p>

It’s not like people can’t rise on the social scale here in the United States

</p>

<p>Actually, most people can’t. In order to rise, you need an education. Education costs money that people don’t have. So people either start their lives in debt that is REALLY hard to crawl out of or they stay poor. </p>

<p>

. Besides, look what health care has caused in European Union countries.

</p>

<p>Yes, let’s look at all of those health care systems that are ranked MUCH more highly than ours. </p>

<p>

One has to wait for months just to get into the doctor’s office.

</p>

<p>Show me a statistic of this. As someone who has lived in an EU country, I can tell you this is false, at least from my experience. But really, I would like some statistics if you have them, please :).
But hey, I’d rather wait a little while than not be able to go at all like here in the good ole USA. </p>

<p>

Taxes have risen immensely there.

</p>

<p>Yeah… and so have ours since the 40s when it was implemented in England. Show me the cause and effect. </p>

<p>

Let’s just follow the Constitution, guys!

</p>

<p>Yes, because the Constitution is unchangeable!</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

Besides, look what health care has caused in European Union countries. One has to wait for months just to get into the doctor’s office.

</p>

<p>Really? The one time I got pretty sick while in London, I was able to get a doctor’s appointment the next day.</p>

<p>There’s a reason the NHS is so popular, especially among those that actually use it. And there’s a reason you’ll frequently see articles in London papers criticizing the US right wing for unwarranted attacks on the system.</p>

<p>

@c. 1800

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would not have purchased the Louisiana Territory.

</p>

<p>

@1820-1860

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would have slaves.

</p>

<p>

@c. 1920

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would not have women’s suffrage.

</p>

<p>

@1927

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would not have the unemployed on the dole.

</p>

<p>

@c. 1960

I can tell you this much- if the founding fathers made up the government today, we would not have integrated schools

</p>

<p>:rolleyes:</p>

<p>

People lose all incentives, and the economy goes to pot.

</p>

<p>Really? Money stops being worth anything?</p>

<p>

If someone is not willing to work on a competitive basis and actually have goals in life, then they should not be given the same health care as someone who has worked his/her entire life and truly deserves health care

</p>

<p>That’s an interesting philosophy - not sure how it relates to reality. You might want to elaborate.</p>

<p>

Socialism is not cool. It only benefits the lower classes, taking from the middle and high classes.

</p>

<p>Again, the connection with reality is tenuous. Do you actually think the US is a socialist country? Or that universal healthcare would make it one?</p>

<p>

Let’s just follow the Constitution, guys!

</p>

<p>You betcha!</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

look what happened to the soviets when they couldn’t keep up with their uncontrollable spending.

</p>

<p>:D:D:D:D:D</p>

<p>lol</p>

[noimagination]

<p>

look what happened to the Soviets when they couldn’t keep up with their uncontrollable spending.

I think the Soviets have a more important lesson for us. Something about a certain country in southcentral Asia, perhaps?</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>Ahahaha TCBH. That made me laugh so hard I started crying. (Yes, I am on the verge of being slightly hysterical over a research paper.)</p>

[tfeduardo12]

<p>@ roman I believe your sarcastic statement :“Yes, because EVERYONE gets what they deserve. Please”… directly contradicts your following rhetorical questions: “What about the people that worked their whole lives in the auto industry and are now homeless because we shipped jobs oversees? What about children who have never had the chance to work?..”<br>
@noimagination I know you’re ideology won’t change on here but neither will mine so I’ll just say, are we just supposed to sit back and accept the fact that every now and then some group of religious extremists will kill thousands of innocent Americans on our own soil?..DONT THINK SO. I’d rather our nation die on its feet than live on its knees.</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

About 16-17% of Americans have no insurance.</p>

<p>Numbers for the proportion of uninsured emergency room patients I found range from 15% to 20%</p>

<p>So assuming the most generous figures, and assuming no other factors besides insurance account for the difference, requiring everyone to have insurance would reduce the number of visits by 5%. However, that isn’t the whole picture, as it dosen’t account for people who actually DO pay for their emergency room visits out of pocket. My search-fu fails to bring up any numbers on this, but if this accounts for even 1/5 of the uninsured visits then the mandate will not change the number of visits at all.

</p>

<p>1/5 ER visitors don’t have insurance, so getting them insurance would decrease visits by 5% - where’s the logic in that? And the figure of 0 change…?</p>

<p>

This is true, and a good reason to buy insurance. But if they are paying for the more serious treatment, and as shown above most do, then it is their problem and not ours.

</p>

<p>Does that sound like a good idea to you? One of the biggest problems in this country is the lack of primary care. That affects people both with and without insurance. If people are systematically just waiting until they’re sick enough for the ER, it puts a lot more stress on he system.</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>

@ roman I believe your sarcastic statement :“Yes, because EVERYONE gets what they deserve. Please”… directly contradicts your following rhetorical questions: “What about the people that worked their whole lives in the auto industry and are now homeless because we shipped jobs oversees? What about children who have never had the chance to work?..”

</p>

<p>Huh? First of all, please learn how to make coherent thoughts. Secondly, it does not contradict it. If everyone got what they deserve than the people who worked their whole lives in the auto industry and those who are too young to work would have health insurance. Please, in some reasonably coherent way, tell me how they contradict each other.</p>

[puggly123]

<p>^You were obviously being sarcastic, romangypsie, so don’t play dumb.</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>Do you guys not understand sarcasm? The posts DO contradict each other - except that the first is a clearly meant to be ironic. The intended meanings are exactly the same.</p>

<p>If you read it differently, I’m very curious as to how.</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>Wow.
Really?
Did someone really not understand the sarcasm? -.-</p>

<p>I never denied that it was sarcasm.</p>

[HarveyLewis]

<p>^^^Yes, she was. So what? Life is unfair. Does this mean we do nothing to make it better?</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>

Yes, I she was.

</p>

<p>Not trying to attack you- but really, which one is it? Lol</p>

[tfeduardo12]

<p>@ roman, very nice condescending tone. but ok:
“What about the people that worked their whole lives in the auto industry and are now homeless because we shipped jobs oversees? What about children who have never had the chance to work? What about soldiers who are disabled and can’t work? What about people who were disabled in other ways? What about the people that own the mom and pop shop that’s been in their family for generations and now can’t compete or get health care because of the WalMart that opened down the street? What about the students who can’t afford healthcare because they’re choosing to get an education and can’t get a full-time job at the same time?”</p>

<p>IF EVERYONE GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED:
-the extremely hardworking auto industry workers would reap wonderful benefits from their “stable” job and be able to send their kids off to college with pleasant smiles on their faces.
-the children who “never had a chance to work” would realize that their is a McDonald’s on every block
-the soldiers who are “disabled and can’t work” would be generously rewarded by the Department of Veteran Affairs for their heroic service and sacrifice on the battlefied for our nation and save enough to fully recover
-the “mom and pop store,” would recieve more customers than the “evil” Walmart corporation as a result of the local town’s reverence toward its family owned shop, thus putting Walmart out of business
-the students without money to afford health care while attending school would recieve gratuitous loans from the sympathetic, benevolent insurance companies </p>

<p>get real, this is life, ***** happens…capitalistic or socialist society</p>

[HarveyLewis]

<p>Dammit. It was “I think she was,” but then I saw your post so I deleted the ‘think’ but forgot the ‘I’.</p>

<p>^Yeah, everyone agrees that life is unfair. So we deny people health care?</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>^ Haha. I wasn’t sure where you were going with that.</p>

<p>tfeduardo12, to be completely honest, that entire post is just not worth responding to.</p>

[tfeduardo12]

<p>nah harvey, its simply ideological differences. As a reagan conservative, i don’t want univ healthcare not for the reason that “life sucks then you die” but simply because i oppose big government spending (no solace in having Obama nor Bush as President for me haha)</p>

[tfeduardo12]

<p>good roman, im glad you’ve come to agree with me.</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

get real, this is life, ***** happens…capitalistic or socialist society

</p>

<p>Read the original context again. The point of the list was to show that people in unfortunate don’t deserve what they get. Like you said, ***<em>(</em>?) happens. So wouldn’t you disagree with puggly’s original point?</p>

[romanigypsyeyes]

<p>^^ Not even close. It’s just not worth the effort.</p>