Is Princeton losing its luster?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>Just wondering...</p>

2

<p>Nah.</p>

<p>PtonGrad2k’s recent post is timely: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1319545-gates-hertz-goldwater-luce-churchill-truman-scholars-2012-news-item.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1319545-gates-hertz-goldwater-luce-churchill-truman-scholars-2012-news-item.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Princeton’s prestige is declining rapidly. [Princeton</a> Office of Career Services 2010-2011 Annual Report](<a href=“Princeton Office of Career Services 2010-2011 Annual Report by Career Services At Princeton University - Issuu”>Princeton Office of Career Services 2010-2011 Annual Report by Career Services At Princeton University - Issuu)</p>

<p>According to the Office of Career Services, only 22 Princeton graduates entered law school somewhare and 38 to medical school somewhere, and 72 to masters program (LOL). Only 42% found full time jobs. More than 25% are not fully employed.
There are very disappointing outcomes, compared to other Ivys. </p>

<p>Princeton graduates are likely to get rejected from top schools or unemployed.</p>

4

<p>Dont listen to youpika, hes a bitter princeton reject and ■■■■■. </p>

<p>Princeton is number 1 according to US news. It hasn’t been number one in a while, and is now tied with Harvard.</p>

5

<p>Princeton’s lack of graduates getting into law school may be due to its severe grade deflation.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/education/31princeton.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/education/31princeton.html&lt;/a&gt;
But, Princeton losing its prestige? No way.</p>

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<p>“There are very disappointing outcomes, compared to other Ivys.”</p>

<p>Compared to Harvard and Yale, perhaps, but can you then imagine how much Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, and Cornell kids must be suffering?</p>

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<p>I didn’t specify “prestige,” per se.</p>

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<p>Byanilla, Princeton does not have a lack of graduates getting into law school (youpika is a well-known ■■■■■ who constantly misinterprets statistics in an attempt to make Princeton look bad).</p>

<p>You might be interested to read this statement made by Yale Law School’s Dean of Admissions immediately after the article about Princeton’s grade deflation appeared in the Times :</p>

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</p>

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<p>and tortoise, I’m not sure what your purpose is in this thread. Care to enlighten us? I don’t think that Princeton has lost anything–in fact I think that its academics and student life are stronger than ever and I think that overall, its institutional priorities–commitment to building an arts neighborhood, new science opportunities and facilities, the extraordinary bridge year program, new residential and dining options and the overall focus on undergraduate education–are pretty special.</p>

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<p>Thank you for that clear up, midatlmom.</p>

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<p>I am curious about students pursuing medicine (38) and law (22). The numbers seem quite low for a school like Princeton.</p>

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<p>

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<p>Ummmm, not trying to be rude since you’re a fellow 16 along with me :D, but your comment is really misinformed.</p>

<p>Look here for MIT’s compilation of US News Rankings for the last 14 years:
web.mit.edu/ir/rankings/USNews<em>UG</em>Rankings_1997-2011.pdf</p>

<p>Rankings by Year
1997:
1.Yale
2. Princeton
3. Harvard</p>

<p>1998:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Duke and Yale</p>

<p>1999:

  1. Harvard, Princeton, and Yale (tied)</p>

<p>2000:

  1. Caltech
  2. Harvard
  3. MIT
  4. Princeton and Yale</p>

<p>2001:

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard and Yale</p>

<p>2002:

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard and Yale</p>

<p>2003:

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard and Yale</p>

<p>2004:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Yale</p>

<p>2005:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Yale</p>

<p>2006:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Yale</p>

<p>2007:

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard
  3. Yale</p>

<p>2008:

  1. Princeton
  2. Harvard
  3. Yale</p>

<p>2009:

  1. Harvard
  2. Princeton
  3. Yale</p>

<p>2010:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Yale</p>

<p>2011:

  1. Harvard
  2. Princeton
  3. Yale</p>

<p>2012 current edition online:

  1. Harvard and Princeton
  2. Yale</p>

<p>If anything, Yale has lost its prestige/ranking while Harvard and Princeton remain stellar, shifting back and forth for first place.</p>

<p>Here are the overall rankings (1997-2012)… (if you’re a speech kid you’ll relate to this “scoring/tab” system):</p>

<p>Princeton: 2114111111112121 -----> Total Score: 22
Harvard: 3112222111221111 -----> Total Score: 24
Yale: 1414222333333333 -----> Total Score: 43</p>

<p>With the lowest total score being the best (since a ranking of 1 will give you a lower total… like golf scoring basically), Princeton comes ahead with Yale in a distant 3rd. </p>

<p>ALL THESE NUMBERS ARE ARBITRARY SINCE RANKINGS ARE PRETTY POINTLESS, but I just wanted to show that at least based off US News, Princeton remains #1.</p>

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<p>What is this trollfest? How is it “losing its luster”? What do you even mean by that?</p>

<p>This is Princeton we’re talking about… it’s not losing of of its magic.</p>

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<p>Oh hot damn, I had no idea Princeton was number 1 so often!</p>

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<p>

Princeton kids suffer much more than other Ivy Kids. Other college students get preferential treatment from their Med, Law, Business schools. </p>

<p>[Yale</a> University Bulletin | School of Medicine 2011?2012 | Enrollment for 2010?2011](<a href=“Welcome | Office of the University Printer”>Welcome | Office of the University Printer)
About 10 Yale college graduates enters Yale Medical School. Only 1-2 spaces are available for Princeton graduates. </p>

<p>[Are</a> my chances for admission to a Columbia graduate school greater if I attend Columbia as an undergraduate? | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/are-my-chances-admission-columbia-graduate-school-greater-if-i-attend-columbia-undergraduate]Are”>Columbia University Authentication)
14 Columbia undergraduates matriculated at the Columbia College of Physicians and Surgeons, the largest undergraduate cohort in the school’s entering class. At Columbia Law School, 50 students matriculated, which was also the largest cohort of students in the entering class.</p>

<p>At Columbia Med Only 2-3 spaces are available for Princeton graduates. At Columbia Law only 5-10 space quota for Princeton. </p>

<p>[Class</a> of 2011 Graduate and Professional Studies | CareerLAB](<a href=“Center for Career Exploration | Brown University”>Center for Career Exploration | Brown University)
At Brown 72 entered Medical School. </p>

<p>It seems like each top med, law business schools has very limited spaces for Princeton graduates, and unlimited quota for applicants from their own undergraduate school.</p>

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<p>Ok, thanks.</p>

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<p>Tortoise, don’t believe a word of it.</p>

<p>It’s certainly tedious to have to reply to statements as foolish and intentionally misleading as those being posted by youpika but it’s also necessary for the enlightenment of those of you who don’t know this poster’s history here on CC. One thing I hope all readers understand is that there is no such thing as a “quota” for Princeton students (or students from any other school) at the leading graduate schools.</p>

<p>POST GRADUATION PLANS</p>

<p>Here are the most recent post graduation statistics for Harvard, Princeton and Yale. Note that the comparison is not exact since Yale waits a full year before reporting its graduating class statistics. </p>

<p>Class---------------Employment----Graduate School----Other Activities</p>

<p>Harvard ’11 ---------71%--------------21%-----------------8%
Princeton ‘11 --------73%--------------23%----------------4%
Yale ’10 -------------75%---------------21%----------------4%</p>

<p>Harvard: [OCS-Students:</a> Jobs / Senior Survey 2011](<a href=“http://www.ocs.fas.harvard.edu/students/jobs/seniorsurvey.htm]OCS-Students:”>http://www.ocs.fas.harvard.edu/students/jobs/seniorsurvey.htm)
Princeton: [Princeton</a> Office of Career Services 2010-2011 Annual Report](<a href=“http://issuu.com/pucareerservices/docs/annual_report_2010-2011?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222]Princeton”>http://issuu.com/pucareerservices/docs/annual_report_2010-2011?mode=window&backgroundColor=%23222222)
Yale: [Yale</a> “Factsheet” | Office of Institutional Research](<a href=“http://oir.yale.edu/yale-factsheet#GraduateActivities]Yale”>http://oir.yale.edu/yale-factsheet#GraduateActivities)</p>

<p>(Notes: As you can see, the numbers are very close. Yale’s figures are reported about six months after Harvard’s and Princeton’s, giving its graduates six more months to find work prior to reporting. Both Harvard and Yale include the category of “seeking employment” in their employment figures. Harvard’s statistics are also a bit more difficult to interpret since it asks its graduates to list multiple categories that apply and the total sums to more than 100%.)</p>

<p>Harvard does not report law and medical school attendance separate from PhD/Masters programs. Princeton and Yale do report these separately. Compared to Yale, Princeton sends slightly more of its graduates to PhD/Masters programs and slightly fewer to law and medical school but, again, the numbers are quite close.</p>

<p>Class---------PhD/Masters----Law----Medicine----Other Prof. School</p>

<p>Princeton ‘11------13%---------2%--------3%--------------------5%
Yale ’10------------7%--------- 4%--------4%---------------------6%</p>

<p>MEDICAL SCHOOL ADMISSIONS</p>

<p>As for medical School admissions, Princeton is among the top in the country. In recent years about 93% of Princeton applicants have been admitted to medical school. </p>

<p>Princeton Applicants to Medical Schools</p>

<p>“Year of Matriculation—# of Applicants Accepted—% Accepted</p>

<p>2006-----------------------107---------------------------94.7%
2007-----------------------108---------------------------93.1%
2008-----------------------114---------------------------91.2%
2009-----------------------107---------------------------93.0%
2010-----------------------123---------------------------92.5%</p>

<p>(Average % Acceptance Rate Over Last Five Years = 93%)</p>

<p>In 2008 and 2009, Princeton students who applied to a Top 10 medical school were offered admission at a rate more than three times the overall admit rates at those schools.”</p>

<p>[FAQ</a> -*Office of the Dean of the College](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/odoc/faculty/grading/faq/]FAQ”>http://www.princeton.edu/odoc/faculty/grading/faq/)</p>

<p>It is important to note that only a handful of other schools in the country have Princeton’s record of success in medical school applications. </p>

<p>Yale applicants to medical school enjoy a success rate in the low 90% range, similar to Princeton’s. [Premed</a> advising gets a check-up | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2010/apr/23/premed-advising-gets-a-check-up/]Premed”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2010/apr/23/premed-advising-gets-a-check-up/)</p>

<p>Harvard’s statistics aren’t reported publicly but are similar to Princeton’s and Yale’s.</p>

<p>Here’s an analysis of how Princeton has compared to its peers in medical school admissions. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/9601150-post9.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/9601150-post9.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>LAW SCHOOL ADMISSIONS</p>

<p>Just as is the case with medical school admissions, Princeton does extremely well with law school admissions. </p>

<p>While a slightly smaller percentage of Princeton graduates tend to apply to law school those who do apply do very well indeed. Here’s why. The following are recent numbers for the LSAT averages among graduates from Princeton and some of its peers. The numbers vary from year-to-year given the small total number of applicants.</p>

<p>Average LSAT scores for college graduates</p>

<p>166 Harvard
165 Princeton / Yale
164 Stanford
163 Brown / Columbia / Dartmouth / Duke / MIT / Penn
162 Chicago</p>

<p>Many of the top schools (including Harvard) do not publish law school acceptance rates for their graduating seniors but at Harvard, Princeton and Yale, acceptance rates of these graduates to the top 10 law schools in the country average about 35%, typically three times the average acceptance rate for all applicants.</p>

<p>Acceptance Rates Last Year for Princeton Applicants</p>

<p>Law School----------------% of Princeton Applicants Accepted (data from last year)</p>

<p>Yale Law School--------------------------26%
Harvard Law School----------------------26%
Columbia Law School--------------------43%
Stanford Law School---------------------23%
U. of Chicago Law School----------------26%
NYU Law School--------------------------50%</p>

<p>The most recent figures I can find published for Yale graduates applying to these same schools is for the entering class of 2007 and would thus not be truly comparable. However, at that time Yale College applicants were accepted at a 22% rate into Yale Law School and a 30% rate into Harvard Law School.</p>

<p>Law School----------------% of Yale Applicants Accepted (data from four years ago)</p>

<p>Yale Law School--------------------------22%
Harvard Law School----------------------30%
Columbia Law School--------------------41%
Stanford Law School---------------------31%
U. of Chicago Law School----------------38%
NYU Law School--------------------------48%</p>

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<p><em>Standing ovation</em></p>

19

<p>Thank you PtonGrad for a wonderful, informative and comprehensive post.</p>

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<p>PtonGrad - Why is there so much disparity in the reported numbers?</p>

<p>The book at the beginning of the thread lists 38 and 22 for medicine and law.</p>

<p>2010-----------------------123---------------------------92.5%
Princeton ‘11------13%---------2%--------3%--------------------5%</p>

<p>The 3% of grads should be about 33?</p>