<p>I’ve been reading the forums hear and the College at Penn seems to get some mixed reviews. Some say it’s great, and others say its overrated compared to other Ivies and top 20 schools, and that Penn would not have the reputation it does if it did not have Wharton.</p>
<p>I dont really know what I want to do after college, but probably business or medicine, although I could end up wanting to be anything from a museum curator to english teacher.</p>
<p>I’m really struggling over which school I should apply ED to next year because while I want a school that will give me a good background for business (something like economics since many elite schools dont have business majors and I’m not sure I’d want do that anyway since I know I want a liberal arts edu.) but is really strong in the liberal arts. I really like how I could take courses at Wharton if I attend the College at Penn, but I dont know if the college is the strongest compared to the other top schools, and if it is worth attending a school with a weaker liberal arts program just to have Wharton classes.</p>
<p>I've taken plenty of College courses and find that I learn just as much if not more than my friends at peer institutions. It's really what you make of it. All the top schools have tons of resources -- they're yours to utilize.</p>
<p>You realize that you don't have to apply ED to a school. In fact, you really shouldn't apply ED unless it is your clear-cut number one choice, without a close second. That's just my opinion.</p>
<p>I know I dont have to apply ED to a school, its just that I would statistically have a better chance at being accepted and thus want to take advantage of that.</p>
<p>I know that college is what you make of it and you can practically learn whatever you can learn at Penn or any school by spending 4 years in the NY Public Library. The thing is I want the best classroom learning experience I can get at a school thats not a tiny LAC, and most rankings that I've seen based on student surveys and rank Penn a little lower than schools like Brown, Yale, Duke, etc. The diffrence is an A or A+ compared to an A- at Penn, which is really not that much of a diffrence, but I would just like to know why Penn is given a lower mark.</p>
<p>There are lot of great schools IVY's UM, UCB, EMORY, DUKE, MIT JHU, NWU for UG experience. Visit and talk to srudents rather reading things. You may like UC irvine more than Harvrad, your never know. But for god sake do not ask these dumb questions.</p>
<p>I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "strong in liberal arts." </p>
<p>Are you talking about the quality of the faculty? By departmental rankings, Penn's Arts and Science is pretty well distinguished. In particular, econ at Penn is one of its best departments, far outranking those of Brown and Duke, and most of the Ivies. </p>
<p>Are you talking about the availabilty of challenging courses? If yes, there are many that you can take, including courses in the engineering school.</p>
<p>Penn Econ, English, History, Psychology, Anthropology, Bio-something are all top 10-15 programs. Several other "important" departments rank in the top 20-25.</p>
<p>This thread rubs me the wrong way. Reputation should have no bearing, and all of this talk about "which departments are tops" detracts from the fact that if you go to ANY school at penn, you are going to PENN. </p>
<p>if the penn name (be it whatever branch you choose) doesn't toot your "prestige" horn, then maybe you should rethink your college expectations.</p>
<p>the fact that "weak" appears in reference to any of these outstanding schools within the university just boggles my mind.</p>
<p>First, on the range of jobs you mention - For "English Teacher" you're looking at an MAT and for museum curator you're looking at an MA <em>minimum</em> for entry level jobs. Getting a bit of focus will come in your first couple years in school.</p>
<p>Second - Quality of the College - As with jobs, you need to focus a bit. I'm a Classics major so that's all I can really tell you about. The short version is that Classics at Penn kicks a**. Here are a couple examples from the past year:</p>
<p>Fall 2005: Latin 309 - Propertius: Taught by Joe Farrell, open to anyone with enought Latin, Farrell is one of, if not the, top man in Augustan Age Latin lit on the planet, he seems to pick up NEH grants at will, and is a real nice guy to boot. He's a full Professor as well.</p>
<p>Spring 2006: CLST 328 - Roman Topography: Taught by Brian Rose, open to anyone, Rose is also a full Professor, Curator in Charge of the Med. Section of the museum here, Head of Post-Bronze Age excavations at Troy, First Vice-President of the Archaeological Institute of America, and a Trustee of the American Academy in Rome. </p>
<p>I could go on for pages about the department as well. Even in the Ivies you won't find a lot of classes taught by full Professors of that caliber that are open to anyone. Classics here is as good as it gets and my brushes with History, Anthropology, and Art History have been similar. </p>
<p>Basically, you can't go wrong - any individual department is probably not going to be #1 with a bullet, but it would be very hard to match the overall level of teaching even at one of the HYPS.</p>
<p>To make myself more clear, I know Penn is a great school and has a great staff, and all the other things that make a college good. I'm just trying to discern the subtle diffrences in teaching quality, department strength and course offering between the Ivies and top colleges.</p>
<p>The thing about Penn is that it is really know for Wharton more than the College, but I admit that I am at no means an expert on the school and really know it only by its reputation and from theses forums. Based on the subjective and possibly innacurate information that I've read it seemed that the College wasnt quite deserving of a USNWR #4 ranking and that there were better choices. By no means would I call it weak, just not the very best.</p>
<p>You guys seem to think that Penn's college is really a great school, and I appreciate the feedback and would like any other opinions.</p>
<p>Before you have even the smallest hint of a thought of mentioning the USNWR ratings please, please, please read and understand the section on methodology. (If you had read it you would know that Wharton's existence has no effect whatsoever on the College's ranking.)</p>
<p>The raw ranking is useful only for the crudest level comparison. (And of course the prestige wh<em>r</em>s who tend to inhabit CC.) Really, any school in the top 25 is going to be very good. Each will have relative strengths and weaknesses but for undergrad LA, you can go almost anywhere and be well prepared for grad school in whatever you specialize in.</p>
<p>So pick a major and start browsing websites. Research how the faculty breaks down in terms of academic rank, who teaches what courses, what their publications history looks like, and so forth. Then VISIT the schools and the departments you're interested in. I promise you, there is no way you're going to pick up any subtleties on CC!</p>
<p>Incidentally, Penn is as well known for archaeology as for Wharton. Anytime you see Dr. Hawass on some Ancient Egypt show, you're seeing a Penn grad, Not to mention Dr. Silverman (also Egypt) Dr. Rose (Troy) and someday me! (hookers in Pompeii)</p>
<p>quaker10, I'm not trying put down Penn and I think you're being a jerk by telling me not to apply just because I'm trying to find out more about the school by asking about its strength? I really like Penn and just want to know as much about it as I can find out.</p>
<p>RenMan, it would really help us help you if you could give us a few majors that it is likely you would choose from...then, different people could tell you about individual departments they are familiar with, specific professors, classes, etc...each person telling you exactly what they know from personal experience.</p>
<p>So, any thoughts on probable majors? We'd really like to help you out with honest and frank answers.</p>
<p>Penn is NOT known just for Wharton. I live about 20 minutes away, and a lot of people have no clue what Wharton is but EVERYONE around here knows what Penn is.</p>
<p>Penn is a REALLY good school with a lot of good programs. The USNWR is not a good basis for how you choose your schools, as it's merely a formula that leaves out quality of education. Like WilliamC said, basically all the schools in the top 25ish are just as good. And when you get into the work world, where someone went to school probably won't be the deciding factor when employers are giving out jobs. My dad went to MIT, yet got turned down for a couple engineering jobs while kids that went to schools like Rutgers (no offense to Rutgers kids, it just isn't up there with MIT according to USNWR) got those jobs - so clearly that MIT education isn't exactly everything. But for Penn, the faculty is just as renowned as any other top-notch school, because Penn is, in fact, a top-notch school.</p>
<p>Besides, you don't have to apply ED to a school. Sure, it helps, but there's no point locking yourself into a school if you're only going to care about how prestigious it is. By the way, being a prestige-whore like that really won't get you anywhere. No one likes people like that. Plus, you wouldn't fit in at Penn, as it's sometimes confused for Penn State. I can see you as the kind of person that would just cringe in pain if someone said "Oh, Penn State?" rather than just nodding and smiling politely and laughing on the inside. </p>
<p>You're probably better off applying to a school with a less common moniker.</p>
<p>At this time i'm thinking of majoring in Economics. Maybe some of you guys could give me some insight on how Penn compares to Brown, Duke, WashU, Columbia and Stanford in Econ?</p>
<p>sweetnsarah- never in any of my posts did I say that I am looking for the school with the most prestige or even mention the word prestige, all I am asking about is quality of programs and teaching. I'm not a prestige whore and you have nothing to base an accusation like that on. And I am aware the USNWR doesnt address quality of education very well if at all; what I meant to ask earlier gave the 4th best education and how it should be ranked in terms of education compared to other top schools.</p>
<p>I completely agree with sweetnsarah's post on principle. I don't know about how it applies to this situation...I'm not commenting on that. Only on the validity of the post...</p>
<p>You're right, you didn't. After reading other people's posts I kind of just got it in my head that this was a prestige thing. In terms of quality of program, I think all those schools you mentioned are pretty much on the same level.</p>
<p>You weren't mistaken. He invoked ranking, discussed being "overated" due to the Wharton factor and used "reputation", rather than the "P" word. Little difference:</p>
<p>pres·tige ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-stzh, -stj)
n.
The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing.
A person's high standing among others; honor or esteem. </p>
<p>rep·u·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rpy-tshn)
n.
The general estimation in which a person is held by the public.
The state or situation of being held in high esteem.</p>