I recently got an email saying that I was invited to apply for honors. As an incoming freshman is it better for me to do honors right away or would it be better to do it later on?
And also what are the pros/cons of the honors program in general?
If you are going to do it, right away is better. Have you explored the L&S Honors website?
I recommend talking to someone at advising about it. I asked about it at SOAR and the adviser helping me stated that it translates into you doing more work in your classes with no real noticeable advantage. It all depends on what you want out of your UW experience.
Definitely if you intend to take any Honors courses. I see no cons except a waste of minimal time applying if you do not make use of the courses offered. Great for sciences, and other fields. Check to see which courses may suit your interests. You are not required to take any courses for Honors in any semester (plenty of flexibility) but to get an Honors degree in a major you may be required to take certain courses for Honors in that field. There are now other benefits you will get emails about if you are in Honors.
Regular versions of a course are not necessarily any easier. Your choices will depend on your knowledge base and what you want to get out of a course- such as theory versus problem based calculus to suit your major.
Read the UW website!
Does it matter if I’m thinking in majoring in CS? Taking classes in Humanities and Social Sciences seems a bit odd. And in general, are honors classes harder than regular classes or do they require more work?
Why is it at all odd to learn as much as you can about many diverse things? You go to college to get an education, not just job skills. How hard or how much work any class is depends on your background knowledge and skills plus your aptitude and ability. You are not required to take every class possible for Honors. Read the UW L&S Honors website. There is more than one type of Honors designation.
My son is in Honors and is on track to graduate with honors degree in the liberal arts. In his experience, Honors only sections, which meet with the prof, instead of a TA for section, require different, though not necessarily more work. In various social science and humanities, he did extra short writing assignments or different exam projects. Sometimes, he felt that the prof graded more easily than the TA. In classes which were Honors optional – the regular class plus extra – he did extra work but often was additional essays, assignments etc. Was not burdensome.
Graduating with Honors in the Liberal Arts is a commitment – my kid is taking 6 Honors credits each in Humanities, Social Sciences and Sciences. Plus a certain number of credits in Honors only courses. Being in the Honors program does not commit a student to pursuing the “Honors” degree. That is an individual decision.
As a parent, what I appreciate about Honors at UW is that it offers flexibility, the option to take an Honors section with a prof you want, and perks like, at least my son’s freshman year, priority registration for FIGS (first year interest groups – clustered courses around a theme which you take with the same group of students, creating a group of about 20 freshman who are in 2 or 3 of your courses – a ready made study group and friend group).
Honors has been manageable and an academic plus for my UW student – he has had access, through Honors sections, to profs who are now writing recommendations for him for internships etc. He has no regrets.
@Midwestmomofboys Do you have experience with Honors in the Major vs honors in the liberal arts? I understand the difference but wonder how much students benefit from one vs the other. Thanks.
You can get both Honors in the major and comprehensive, or liberal arts- 3 ways to do it. The path you choose depends on which Honors courses you want to take. Eons ago I did both- took enough in required breadth courses plus my major and Honors thesis. As an incoming freshman you don’t have to decide right away. I was a Chemistry major and found enough other Honors courses to meet the requirements. That aspect of Honors has not changed in decades. Since my time they have only added/improved the program. You may get a TA for labs and discussions but will have motivated peers and likely the better TA’s as this would be a plum assignment. Having a TA for a discussion can be an excellent thing, btw. Adds another viewpoint to explaining material.
Go ahead and apply if you are interested. You can always drop it later. Again- do your homework and read the website.
@wayneandgarth On honors in the liberal arts vs. in the major – my kid looked at honors in the major but decided he couldn’t do it as a double major. For honors in either of his majors, he would need 2-3 more courses in the major, plus a certain number of them in Honors classes. He just doesn’t have the room in his schedule. While he is still a student and cannot say how employers see Honors in the liberal arts vs Honors in the major, I imagine that either is a nice thing to put on your resume. For him, he has enjoyed the flexibility of the Honors program in being able to do Honors work across different departments rather than focus intensively on Honors in a single department. That’s him though, he likes to dabble in different classes which catch his interest, like Classics etc.
The important thing- you do Honors for yourself, not for your resume, what looks good on the diploma et al. Take the Honors classes because they intrigue you. Remember, aside from ultimately getting a job, college is all about learning for your benefit. My friends and I may all have taken various classes for our common major but we all had different electives. Likewise my son took electives simply because they interested him along with all of the needed and extra courses for his major.
I would like to back up the other supporters of the honors program here. I’m also an honors graduate from years ago. That a UW advisor or faculty member would state there’s “no noticeable advantage” sounds at best like a misrepresentation, or that it may have been taken out of context, much like a forlorn soundbyte.
It is true that UW Honors is run differently than some other flagship U’s. The program is over 50 years old. It has been said on this board before that the UW has conducted research into the structure of the program, and deduced that it indeed functions better with the open program structure – provided one maintains the grades and diligence – as opposed to a more constricting honors college structure.
It is perfectly fine if the OP doesn’t want to participate. However, of course: there is more work! That is the point. Undergraduates in the 1950s stated themselves they wanted more challenging work and research opportunities at UW, and hence the program was born.
Whether it is “harder” is more subjective; honors at most research universities tends to prepare candidates better for research-level work. UW’s program certainly has advantages in this respect. When I was there, and likely still, an honors thesis was required. I received outstanding research support and funding, much closer to that of graduate support, directly from the honors department to complete a thesis with a prominent researcher (at another university, btw).
Clarification is certainly helpful re: the honors program. Yet I find it unfortunate that supporters would even have to come here defend it as such, as the benefits of honors at a world-class research institution seem so self-evident. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then apply. If not, then you will still receive a fine education.
Well I definitely didn’t take it out of context, as it was a specific question I asked and I asked follow up questions. Perhaps she thought that as an older transfer student that I shouldn’t bother.
Well, divulging that you are both older and a transfer student already widens the context of your comment significantly. Thank you for letting the board know.
To clarify my original statement (I’m sorry, but this forum engine doesn’t seem to allow for editing of comments?): My intent wasn’t to criticize you personally. Rather, my intent is to allow potential honors candidates at UW to have a balanced, and perhaps enlightening view of the advantages of the program.
It’s certainly not for everybody, but I’d rather not let what could be read as potentially pejorative comments dissuade bright students from enrolling. To that end, I’d suggest those truly wondering about the program’s benefits refer directly to its website, or to contact honors representatives directly. They are available.
As I pondered the older transfer student comment re: honors, I also remembered the following, fwiw:
I was in the German honors sequence for four years. A good portion of my friends were, in fact, older students in those classes. Those included some faculty and professional members who wanted to learn languages at an advanced clip. There were also some transfer students, there for similar enrichment purposes.
We all tended to become good friends and stick together, not only because of the high quality of the instruction, but also for the close-knit environment provided by the honors sequence running consecutively for several years. The languages in honors usually comprise their own, separate classes, by the way.
If it weren’t precisely for the honors sequence, coupled with the diversity of students at UW who pursue those challenging classes, I might not have had such diverse friends and experiences during those formative years. I consider this exposure an advantage which many private universities for example, with more homogenous entering classes, don’t tend to replicate.
Never take the word of just 1 person as gospel. They may have different POV than you or just be wrong.
Regarding the German- that was a sequence I chose to take the regular classes in while all of my other classes freshman year were Honors. You are not required to take as many Honors courses as possible but you pick and choose which you would like to take. As a transfer student you may not be able to logistically take enough courses to qualify for one of the Honors designations but you should choose any that you feel will benefit you regardless of being able to fit enough in for the degree.
I’ve been trying to understand more about how the honors programs work at Madison and I get more and more confused.
Are the sections smaller in the honors classes? Our son likes many things about Madison but the large class sizes are a turn off. Other than having the chance to do more difficult work, what are the other benefits? Is there a dorm with the honors kids? Do they get priority registration? Do they have to keep a certain GPA to stay in the program?
No to special housing, registration, keeping a gpa. Those are not at all needed, nor is isolating people in a dorm desirable. People within a major, much less being in honors classes are too diverse to want the same living situations. Honors students are not restricted to any one dorm. This is good especially since it does not mean living in a building you dislike for its location or size.
Being in the Honors Program means being eligible for honors sections and honors courses the other students won’t get into. Joining as an incoming freshman gives extras- see the site for the currently available things (none in my days of no internet).
You need a B or better to get honors credit (and have signed up for honors credit to begin with in a course). This makes sense as getting a C does not mean you deserve to count a class for honors requirements. As I recall you needed a 3.5 gpa to graduate with honors, along with meeting the other course requirements. Fluidity- no need to take any specific courses or any in a given semester. However, to get honors in the major a department may (probably) have specific courses that are needed to be taken for honors credit.
The big deal is taking the courses for yourself. Frankly, years later it doesn’t matter at all (nor does your gpa or major, btw). It is a way to get more out of college. Honors classes will be more challenging. Honors sections will have a peer group of more intense students most likely. Although there could be students who are in other majors and not as interested as those in the major (like me in some courses eons ago).
Registration comes with class standing. AP credits are awarded after the successful completion of first semester so won’t help until third semester registration. However, Honors students get into Honors classes/sections, others would need to get permission if there is room for them. Being in the program makes one eligible for honors classes and credit.
Actually this is soo much better than many other schools. No specific required classes, including survey courses instead of the meatier individual ones. The rest of the student body is better than at many schools so taking classes with the rest of the students is not a huge step down. Plus- the caliber of material taught overall likely better.
One does not need to be special to have high quality. Large lectures- more listening to a professor makes no difference. Discussion groups are where you ask questions (who wants any class disrupted by that student who prevents the professor from present his/her material because they run out of time?). Honors sections my be run by the professor sometimes.
Class size varies. A math, chemistry or physics lecture could perhaps have 50-100 students, depending on the department and number of interested/eligible students. Those will have the usual small discussions, labs run by top TA’s. btw TA’s can be better at explain things and do NOT detract from the professor’s teaching.
Joining now means getting Honors program SOAR advising. Those advisors will know tricks for getting classes and not blink at high expectations (ie taking a lot of credits…).
When it comes to choosing a school do not downgrade UW for the way it handles honors. In fact, it is a plus.
Current parent of student who is on track to graduate with both Honors in the Liberal Arts and and Honors in his major, and I agree with @wis75 that we were pleased with the “pluses” of Honors in the College of Letters and Science at UW.
First, UW Honors is egalitarian in the sense that all admitted students are invited to apply, rather than at many schools where it is reserved for the “super stat” kids. The premise of Honors is that it all admitted students at UW are capable of Honors level work. So, acceptance to the program is based on interest in deeper intellectual pursuit and engagement, not higher test scores etc. The program does not segregate students, by dorm or other mechanism. A student can be as little or as much engaged with Honors program as they choose. There are Honors talks and events at Washburn, where the program administration is housed. My kid never attended one as far as I can tell. He is on track to complete the requirements to graduate with Honors in the Liberal Arts – which requires both depth and breadth in Honors courses – 6 Honors credits in each of Humanities, Social Science and Natural Science, plus 15 credits of “Honors only” courses. There could be something else I’m forgetting, but I think those are the broad requirements for Honors in the Liberal Arts. As @wis75 noted, you only get Honors credit for a class you earn at least a B in.
Honors classes at UW can be designated as Honors in different ways. There are the Honors sections of larger lecture classes, where the professor who teaches the large lecture is also the discussion section professor for the Honors section. That is different from the non-Honors discussion sections which are led by TAs (not a bad thing, in itself, they are Ph.D. candidates in the department). Then there is "Honors optional"where there is not an Honors section but the professor identifies additional project/work for the student who wants to take the class for Honors credit. For my kid, that often meant the 10 page research paper was a 20 page research paper, and involved more meetings with professor about the paper. Then there are classes which are just “Honors” – the whole class is doing it for Honors credit. That can be a mechanism by which the most interested, most active students are self-selecting that class.
What did he get out of Honors? First, he loved taking the Honors section of a lecture class because the discussion section was always run by the professor. He got to know some phenomenal faculty that way who invited him on research trips, wrote his recommendations for competitive internships etc. He also loved his “Honors only” classes, which tended to be smaller, 15-25 students. He griped a bit about having to do 6 Honors credits in science, since he is not a STEM kid at all, but he survived the extra paper or other project to get the Honors credit.
As a parent, I think what was good about Honors was that he was challenged by working closely with world-class faculty. He worked his tail off because he was sitting around a conference table once a week with someone he was in awe of.
If a student does not complete the requirements for graduating with Honors in the Liberal Arts, there is no negative associated with that. They just un-check a box before graduation to signal they are not completing the requirements.
Hope that helps answer your questions.