If he is already spending so much time on the outside, higher level, orchestra, he has fulfilled his arts requirement. The school should have no problem giving him a waiver. Do not hesitate. It is fine. No reason the school officials wouldn’t understand or should hold it against him.
Our daughter had a sports waiver, for PE, because she was on a school team.
Outside activities, do not meet waiver requirements at her high school.
I would have him in ECs at his school, if possible.
Not sure if playing in an outside orchestra would satisfy a HS graduation requirement. (My daughter had done a lot of theater outside her school but none of it was for credit, so I knew I couldn’t justify a waiver to fulfill her arts requirement with just those experiences). Like your kid (I forgot if it’s a son or daughter - sorry), my daughter has no interest in pursuing the arts at her school. What we were able to do is make arrangements for her to take a college level arts course, and made sure it would be transferable to the U.C.s and thus acceptable to her school.
Some youth orchestras require enrollment in the school orchestra in order to play in the youth orchestra. The regional orchestras and local schools realize that many of the best players will otherwise leave the school ensembles without strong membership and sometimes without adequate membership of any sort. My daughter used to have to bring a certification from her school that she was enrolled in school orchestra or that there wasn’t an orchestra at school before she could enroll in the youth orchestra each year. Your son should check whether this is an issue for him.
I understand that balance is important and I agree that working to the bone is not a good thing. I am confused though at the logic that studying a 2nd foreign language leads to an easier, laid back life than playing in the school orchestra. Having a nonacademic class that allows for teamwork and some fun is very welcome in a high school schedule that is otherwise filled with rigorous academics.
Does your son want to opt out of the school program? If he does, then go for the waiver.
My son plays in a top-level outside program, but he also plays in his school program. In addition to the fun and friendships, his playing in school allowed him to qualify for AP theory, which he wouldn’t have qualified for otherwise, as well as to have plenty of in school activities to qualify him for certain honors societies in his school. Kids who don’t participate in in school activities don’t qualify for those things and are precluded from certain top graduation and community awards/scholarships.
Also, his school music program travels to very cool places, such as an upcoming trip to tour in Asia as the guest of a foreign government. My son is very excited to do these things and would miss them if he couldn’t be included. But if your son doesn’t want to particpate and there are no honors/accolades/scholarships/opportunities that would be closed to him, then get the waiver.
If the school grants waivers for,what you are describing, this should not in any way I pact anything like LORs or the like down the road.
But I will say…you seem to want several things waived, not just one. Are you sure this is the HS for your student?
What will he be participating in besides his courses at the school. No orchestra, no sports, no math team. So what will he be involved with at his HS?
If he chooses the math EC, let him do it. Consider cutting back on that outside orchestra instead. There should be a balance in life. Perhaps the orchestra is taking TOO much of his free time. Ages and stages. Let him explore more options in HS, including his peer group for orchestra. Son’s HS schedule included orchestra, French and plenty of other academics. He also did cross country, math team and other academic teams for ECs.
Good idea to get the 4 years of a foreign language done in HS- by the time he is considering the 5th year he may choose to skip it. Good idea to keep up with math team- presuming he enjoys it.
Does he plan on majoring in music in college? Even if so, there is a lot more to life to be experienced as a kid.
It was fine to have something to do with his free time in middle school when there aren’t as many activities available for kids but HS opens up a lot more choices. Incorporating orchestra into his academic time gives him daily music without taking up his time for the many other interests he may have.
Son had a fantastic orchestra teacher who handled both his middle and HS class. His junior year of HS they did a difficult piece they had been working on more than a year (along with many other pieces performed) that featured an extremely talented violinist her senior year. One of those experiences he was lucky to participate in and fortunate the teacher worked into the class. I strongly disagree that your son is too good for the HS orchestra.
Let your son be involved with his classmates instead of isolating him by the need to be at the outside orchestra instead of joining them in activities.
Most important. What would your son rather do? HS is a new experience and a chance for him to change his habits.
I have several questions and concerns. If this HS has a sports and math team requirement, are there any other courses or projects that you may also seek a waiver for? As mentioned by another poster, is it the right HS for your son? Will these waivers affect class rank? What will the transcript look like?
“Our HS has a number of very talented and dedicated musicians who take lessons/play in ensembles at the top places in NYC in it every year and they all seem to truly enjoy the experience and camaraderie of the orchestra, but it is your son’s call I guess.”
There were two students in the class ahead of my son who both were accepted to Julliard and did all the things extremely talented musicians do - including national and international competitions and they both were in the school’s symphonic band and jazz bands (and there was no musical class requirement at his school - a very small private with approx 65 students per class.) Obviously, both these students were much more talented than the other kids who were in band.
I also think colleges like students who are involved in their school’s community.
If your son is a very serious musician, I suggest you ask this same question on the Music Major forum. I think you will get some quite different answers from the above.
I think it doesn’t matter what posters on this or other threads say. Your school will decide if it will give a waiver based on their rules. You can try to make the argument that outside activities should count toward the requirements but it may not work. If you’re asking if we think you should ask for a waiver, that’s a different question. In that case, IMO you should have your child do another art besides orchestra. I really have trouble believing the only way to fit a language in is with no art.
I also suggest asking this on the music major forum. You will get different answers there.
Many talented musicians opt out of their school performance bands and ensembles.
Having a genuine “passion” for music may naturally narrow activities, which, to be honest, many colleges/conservatories really appreciate if the interest is backed up by hard work and talent.
The state “district” orchestras won’t be that significant for your son. Playing in school band in order to qualify does nto make sense since he is already in a good youth orchestra.
I think it’s cool that he wants to take a second language. (In fact, down the line, knowing two languages is required by music grad schools, but it’s cool he wants to do it out of interest.)
I would go for the waiver. But things will work out either way: it really depends on what your son wants.
p.s. Online classes can be really useful for students like your son: we used Virtual High School and later convinced our school to join so that 25 students can now take an online course in a given semester. AP Music Theory is one of hundreds of classes offered.
He is not a serious musician and doesn’t plan to go to a conservatory. The school allows only 6 courses in every grade. That’s why there is no way to fit in a second foreign language without bumping art. My worry is that colleges will like kids who are involved in the school’s community even if that comes at the expense of sleep and rest which to me is critical for a healthy upbringing but everything is so lopsided now. I don’t understand why schools should force ECs. If kids like it they will if they don’t like it they won’t is what I believe. All the kids in my son’s class are so stressed with so much work. My son likes the school very much because he has lots of friends there and so I like it too. I am just tired of the compulsory sports and arts and whatnot. Sorry for venting.
Anyway my son doesn’t want to do any of the ECs - arts, math, sports - at school so I am trying to find a way for him to get out of them. Together that is a commitment of 15 hours at school and at least 5 more hours at home. But the good thing is that the school offers waivers if someone is spending similar hours outside.
Why would I get different answers in the Music Forum?
Thumper1, ECMotherx2, I don’t know if this school is right for my son but he chose it himself and now we are stuck with it because all the entry points are gone. That said all the schools are like this and all have tremendous pressure. The International IB school that he went to from K-6 was academically very rigorous but had no EC pressure at all and kids would participate if they wanted to and not particiapte if they didn’t want to and my son participated in nothing and life was sooo good. In 7th grade we wanted to bring him into an US school and frankly I am so surprised by all the outside of classroom requirements but really we applied to many schools and they are ALL like this. At least this school allows arts to substitute sports while other schools will require playing 3 sports in 3 seasons 4 days a week for 2+ hours year in year out which to me is insane. Kids should not be forced to spend 10 hours per week in mandated sports throughout school year. But what is the alternative? I am very happy that at least that can be waived using outside arts classes. I just want him to have some sleep you know? Now I also want the school orchestra to be waived so that he can take French which will be much lower load and more fun for him too.
If you are in CA or there is any change he may want to attend a UC, be aware that the UCs require a year of visual or performing arts credit. Community orchestra wouldn’t count, even if your school gives a waiver. I mention this, because I see a number of out-of-state students on the UC boards here asking how they can satisfy that credit.
Regarding math, if he likes the competition math he has done, I think he should be open about the school’s math team. My son does an out-of-school math circle and the school Math Club. They are aware of each other and try to have no overlap. So, the school does one of the AMC tests and the math circle does the other. The school does the Mathematics League tests and the math club does ARML (which is a very fun trip). And so on, for regional competitions. He doesn’t put a lot of pressure on himself, because his focus is actually science, but the clubs at school meet at lunch, so he has a built-in good social activity 3+ days a week between Math Club, Debate Club, and Science Club. I think the social piece is very important for him, because otherwise he’d just be on the computer 24/7 if he could.
But, I realize that the math team and other academic teams at some schools are very time-intensive. He doesn’t do Mock Trial, which often has been top 1 or 2 in state because of the time commitment involved. And, he has scaled back his sports commitment because of some other science-related activities.
It sounds like you might enjoy reading the Cal Newport book, “How to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get into College by Standing Out (Without Burning Out).”
A friend of my son plays cello for the Memphis Youth Symphony and doesn’t play in the school orchestra. He’s an accomplished cellist and really wouldn’t “learn” anything by being part of the high school orchestra. So the time is better spent elsewhere.
I think you are way too hyper and stressed about all of this. It’s not a zero sum game. Kids can get into great colleges and programs without all this strategizing, my son being one of them. He sang in his schools choir and audition only group, played varsity tennis for four years and managed to have a nice social life. He took a lot of APs but even dropped a language after sophomore year to fit in additional science classes that were actually more fun for him.
Your son is currently in 8th grade. Relax. My community is preparing to bury an 8th grade student who suddenly committed suicide this week, hours after getting an email from school about an overdue assignment. He went to a prestigious private school and gave no indication (that’s been communicated publicly) that he was under duress. The school and community is devastated as there was a three day search for him before it was discovered that he’d killed himself. Grades and college admission are not worth sacrificing a life or enjoyment of a life.
I don’t know if your kid should do school orchestra, math team or sports. I believe that in American schools kids should do at least one school EC. It allows you to develop friendships in a different way than if you just know each other from weekends. It shows you are involved in the community. It gives the GC something to say about you. My older kid did Academic team which met once a week and had half day tournaments at local schools about once a month and he did Science Olympiad which was a few hours a week except for the big push right before the contests - two local ones in the winter, the state one in the spring - they never got as far as nationals. Younger son worked on the literary magazine, was in the orchestra and also did Science Olympiad. Neither did sports. They did the activities they thought were fun, but they were involved in school life.
Most U.S. schools do an appallingly bad job of teaching foreign languages. I know kids who took Spanish all the way through the AP level and got 5s on the AP test, but they can’t get the gist of a conversation in Spanish that they overhear in a shopping mall.
Why would anyone want to take two badly taught foreign languages instead of one? Wouldn’t it be more pleasant to spend one period every day in an orchestra class where the music is so easy that you can sight-read it? For a kid with a heavy academic and EC schedule, one easy, no-homework period a day can be a godsend.