Is there any benefit to attending school orchestra?

If he likes the current orchestra and he wants to take French I would let him. Seems like it would be a lot easier to drop the second language and join band than vice versa should be change his mind.

My daughter was in the exact same situation; she wanted to study two languages (and Marian, I beg to differ - my daughter’s high school language classes have given her a really solid foundation in both). At the same time, she wants to take other academic classes in the humanities beyond the normal sequence. The only way to do this is to give up taking a (year-long) arts course at her school.

And she does have a strong extracurricular activity - Mock Trial - which provides her with a social group, the ensemble/teamwork piece as well as a “performance” or sorts, while requiring her and her teammates to think on their feet and learn how to express themselves effectively in a professional setting.

So something had to give…and in her case, she decided not to pursue the arts in high school and will be taking a college course over the summer - abroad - that will both fulfill her year-long University of California arts requirement as Ynotgo correctly cautioned, and help her achieve greater fluency in her second (third, actually) language.

I think that kids should follow their passions without burning themselves out…and schools need to offer greater flexibility for them to do so.

OP, what does your child enjoy most? Which activity has the best peer group? I agree with the posters above that say he needs some group in high school. I think he should pick based on which one he enjoys most and which will give him the best group of friends. You say the math kids like him and expect him to continue on with them; does he like them? Or would he rather be with the music kids?

I also concur that, in the US, there is an expectation that a student will participate in the school community in some way by contributing their talents. I think the payback of this expectation will differ from school to school and to the level of achievement in the non-school based activities. If you are internationally known for your achievement in a non-school activity (in sports, or music, or drama, or film, or . . . .) it probably won’t matter that much whether you contributed to your local community.

But, colleges care, for others, because they want students who are going to contribute to their own communities. If you’re Emma Watson, they’ll want you anyway. If you’re just a good at something, they’ll want to feel that they will personally reap the benefit of your ability in their community. Hence the desire to see you contribute at your current school, as a sign of what you bring to the college community.

No we are not in CA but that’s the other thing the school requires 2 arts credits to graduate and I am not sure how to do that if arts done outside of school do not count towards credit. The math club is not school mandated it is just peer pressure but I have to teach my son the fine ability to say no even to his friends if he doesn’t want to do something otherwise people will forever be taking advantage of his kindness. I am stressed because I don’t want my child to work this hard. I myself do not work this hard and I am an adult. Kids his age should be sleeping 9-10 hours a day and if that is not possible because he has to do forced community service in school them something is wrong. He actually likes music and math and I don’t want to burn out and turn negative on these because colleges want this and that and seriously if colleges do want that he is far better off going to school in Europe where people do ECs because they are fun and not because colleges want them to. I don’t understand why Marian you would criticize his choice to take two foreign language. He wants to do it and I as a parent will respect that choice. He does not enjoy either sports, or math, or orchestra in school. But he has a lot of friends because he is a goofball. Don’t US kids just hang out any more? Do all kids these days need organized activities to make friends?

How does he know he doesnt like HS orchestra? He is not there yet. Maybe it would be less stress and time to play in the school orchestra instead of doing a Precollege orchestra elsewhere. My kids did precollege orchestra and it was a HUGE outside of school time commitment, much more than their HS ensemble.

I would suggest making an appointment with his HS guidance counselor asap. See what options are available for him.

I don’t understand why he is doing the outside of school orchestra and math club? It sounds like those are the activities keeping him from being able to sleep and hang out with friends.

My D is in 8th grade and plays flute. We haven’t pushed her into orchestra/band outside of school ones because it wd just mean a lot of time and pressure. She puts enough time and pressure into her academics. She’s not planning on a music career. She just plays music because she likes it, it makes her smile. She plays in the school band and the after school jazz band once/twice a week. It’s easy and she rarely has to practice. Today she had a science test that she was stressed about. She said she left science in a bad mood but then had band and it made her feel better. She warms up with a book of disney songs and has even convinced the band director to include them in some of the concerts.

She plans to continue the flute/band next year even though she doesn’t need it as she also wanted another class that counts for the art credit. It means giving up ether a study hall or lunch, but she decided it’s worth it.

Good luck, I hope you figure out a plan that works for your son. Just keep in mind that if he enjoysusic and is otherwise under a very heavy course load, band might be a great place to unwind and relax.

Yes the outside orchestra is a huge time commitment as is math with total about 20 hours a week which is why he needs to free up time in school but he likes to do it so I am not going to force him to quit those. It’s the school math club and orchestra that he has no interest in. How does he know that he won’t like the school orchestra? Well he has listened to it and doesn’t find it interesting. Same for the math club he has been part of it for 2 years and he finds it boring. He has been doing chamber in school for 2 years as well and finds it painful. My ideal schedule for him would be school 6 hours a day and no ECs after that, music 2 hours a day, math 1 hour a day, homework 1 hour a day, 9-10 hours of sleep, 2 hours of commute back and forth from school, and 2-3 hours of free time for him to relax. I had a good chat with a few other parents from high school and I think I can solve for this for grades 10-12 with grade 9 still open for discussion.

You have him doing two hours of music, and one hour of homework? I think you are going to be very surprised at the amount of HS homework your son receives.

Well he does homework in the free block in school and also when he is in commute back and forth from school so in all he can do up to 4 hours or so and I think he does may be 2 hours currently? I have seen what homework kids get in high school and it shouldn’t really take him more than 4 hours. This is high school not investment banking. It also depends on what he chooses to take and if he takes two foreign languages plus english and math those 4 he won’t really have to sweat which is why he wants to take French too.

It sounds like you already have your plan in place.

Like I said, my kids did precollege orchestra…and I’m very familiar with the time commitment. My DD was also in a children’s chorus outside of school in grades 9 and 10. That was an even bigger time commitment. This did not preclude her from taking a full course load of classes including honors ensembles at school. She also managed to swim on the swim team for four HS years.

She never had a study hall. Somehow she made it all happen.

I think you have already made up your mind what you intend to request.

I do think you need a Plan B in case the school will not waive the arts requirement. Just be prepared.

I know other kids work much harder but I don’t want him to have to do that. He is just a kid! He should have some fun and do what he wants to do. If the school doesn’t waive the arts requirement my Plan B is to ask them if he can self study Music Theory which he really won’t have to study and can just take the exam in the end.

I agree that ECs in school give a valuable and different perspective than academic courses.
I think it is great that the school makes room so students can take two arts courses.
My oldest daughters school did as well. She was able to take art all through high school, and was also able to take drama and vocal.
Both drama and vocal can help with confidence and public speaking, skills that will be needed in college and afterwards.

I’ve also observed that boring people are bored. Others can find ways to get more out of their situation, they don’t depend on others to make it " interesting" for them.

Since both OP and her son find so many things lacking in this particular high school, I have to ask, " what’s the attraction?"

Have you considered homeschooling? That way, you would be able to do whatever you choose to do.

We didn’t really have much of a choice when we chose this school as all schools were like this and at least this one allowed all kinds of waivers for activities outside of academics and the academics is top notch. My son wouldn’t want to be homeschooled as he has many friends in school. Where did that even come from? Like I said I went through the program guidebook and I can get him to the plan in grades 10-12 without any problem it is just orchestra in grade 9 but even there I think I can get an waiver given what I heard from other high school parents. My main worry is the LOR and now it seems to me that he shouldn’t even think of going to an US college if they care more about community participation than actual performance both in academics and ECs.

Just take the AP music theory test with no studying. You’re thinking about this in eighth grade. Good luck with that.

You seem to be sending conflicting signals. You want him to be a kid and have enough sleep (and I agree 109%) but you’re already worried about LOR and getting enough EC and classes in. You can’t have it both ways.

Please allow for the possibility that you homework plan of doing work during a car ride etc will not work. He may need to collaborate with someone or use the internet or something else that is not conducive to studying that way.

He has been studying theory since he was 6 and knows enough theory to get a 5 that’s why I am thinking of that option. I won’t think of doing this in Art History or something where he knows absolutely nothing. I am not worried about the LOR per se but just how much I will upset the school if I propose that he just goes there to study and nothing else which I am sure come college admissions time will play a role as here in the US it is not like in Europe where if you have the qualifications you are in. But frankly I will stop worrying about that now as there are plenty of wonderful colleges in Europe. I never worried about ECs as to me they should be things kids want to do and not forced to do by some school requirement. There is internet everywhere these days and collaboartion is over skype. Do you even know these kids these days!? iPhone glued to their hands I swear! But OK may be he has to spend more time with homework which makes it even more important that I free all school EC work off his slate.

Yes, you want him to be a kid but you’re already worried about college apps and it sound like you’ve planned you his courses for all 4 years already. Very conflicting signals.

Excuse me? The courses are planned by the school. 4 years each of English, Foreign Language, Math, Science, and History. I am not complaining about that am I? I am just supporting my son’s decision to take a second foreign language - his choice not mine - to do which I have to get orchestra off of his calendar for 9th grade. I AM complaining about time commitments in school outside of academics though because I feel that time is better spent goofing off or sleeping. I really don’t think you guys are reading what I am writing. Your kid may be a superstar but mine is not and he needs his rest and downtime and yes I WILL push to enable that. Some of you seem to think I should take away the things he likes - second foreign language, outside school math and music - and substitute that with things he doesn’t like - in school ECs. Sorry but I like to listen to my kid and I don’t understand why I should make his life miserable?

Here’s my take on ECs. And it may not be the standard CC position. My opinion is just that a college looks to see that a kid is not sitting around watching TV or playing video games in his free time. So the kid should have something on his app that indicates he’s productive with his free time.

Maybe it’s a PT job. Maybe it’s a community theatre. Maybe he has to help his housebound grandfather after school. Maybe he teaches himself to code.

I really really dislike the notion that you need to craft a resume. Kids are not products to be packaged and sold.

And finally, what types of colleges are you considering? Perhaps you don’t need to worry this much unless you are aiming for HYP level places only. Otherwise lighten up and let your kid be a kid. Worry less about the packaging and more about what makes him fulfilled and able to grow.