<p>I don't know much about this school. My friend with a 2380 SAT, who is also a chess champion and top 25% at my school, which is an accomplishment, says that UMich Honors Program is his first choice college. I expected him to try his luck at the Ivies.</p>
<p>Yeah, your friend could probably do better, but Michigan is pretty good.</p>
<p>Michigan is a very good school. May be your friend is taking other things into consideration. May be he wants to be a part of Big Ten football. Ann Arbor is a really nice place and there are a lot of worse places you can be. May be he's gonna enroll in Ross. I don't know. It's not all about academics and reputation, despite what everyone on this forum might think. It's college. You've got to make the most of it at the place where you think you can make the most of it. Michigan might not have the clout of a Harvard or a Yale, but it's a damn solid school.</p>
<p>umich is pretty close to ivy league anyway</p>
<p>ummm no its not....anyways UMICH is a great school...if he gets good scholarships than it is an obvious choice even over some ivies. Otherwise, i think he could do better depending on his interests...</p>
<p>UMich is a fantastic school...don't ever think otherwise!</p>
<p>ixjunitxi, on what grounds is Michigan not close to ivy league caliber?</p>
<p>Michigan is one of the nation's top 10 universities. Only Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale are better. As a complete package, it is hands down the best university in the US. The Ivies are just as good, but they do not have the same school spirit or athletic tradition. Plus, unlike most Ivies, Michigan is located in one of the most amazing college settings. Finally, students at Michigan are down to Earth, which is rare for a school of its stature.</p>
<p>2380 SAT, yet only top 25% of the class?</p>
<p>Michigan is not top ten in the nation. It's a great school, but it's not top ten in the nation. It might be one of the best values though, I can give you that.</p>
<p>depends on what youre basing your rankings on. for engineering it was 5th last time i checked. and 2nd or 3rd for overall public university</p>
<p>
[quote]
Michigan is not top ten in the nation. It's a great school, but it's not top ten in the nation. It might be one of the best values though, I can give you that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Name your ten better schools. I think I agree with you, but this would be fun.</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
MIT
Stanford
Amherst
Williams
Columbia
Swarthmore
CalTech</p>
<p>no particular order...</p>
<p>okay, on the west coast, few people know about amherst, williams, or swarthmore. seriously, michigan has a much more renowned rep than any of those three.</p>
<p>personally, i'd put it on par more with Berkeley and Virginia, both of which I think are better, YES, BETTER, than any in the ivy league. I know i'll get attacked for this, but i'll face that obstacle when it comes.</p>
<p>Nope, your entitled to your opinion. There are people who are just as if not more delusional than yourself. Why just the other day I was at the Port Authority Bus Terminal .... just a block away from Times Square......There was a homeless guy on the street with a sign that said "Ninjas killed my family, need money for karate lessons".</p>
<p>ixjunitxi,
It's not possible to name ten best schools in general...IMO.</p>
<p>For example, if I'm interested in a college that's strong across the board, which of your top ten schools will remain on the list? What if I'm interested in a school that will give me the best overall undergraduate experience?</p>
<p>Or if I am interested in engineering (substitute any professional school), or economics (substitute any social science), or East Asian studies (substitute any humanities), which ones wll remain?</p>
<p>Sachmoney, I did not overstate. Michigan is a top 10 university. I am not stating a personal opinion. That is what the academic world and the professional world think. One of the more reliable gauges of Academe's opinion of the quality of undergraduate institutions is the Peer Assessment Score of the USNWR. According to the latest PA score, Michigan is tied with the Unversity of Pennsylvania at #12 in the nation. </p>
<p>The latest PA scores were as follows:</p>
<h1>1 Harvard University 4.9/5.0</h1>
<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.9/5.0</h1>
<h1>1 Princeton University 4.9/5.0</h1>
<h1>1 Stanford University 4.9/5.0</h1>
<h1>5 University of California-Berkeley 4.8/5.0</h1>
<h1>5 Yale University 4.8/5.0</h1>
<h1>7 California Institute of Technology 4.7/5.0</h1>
<h1>8 Columbia University 4.6/5.0</h1>
<h1>8 Cornell University 4.6/5.0</h1>
<h1>8 Johns Hopkins University 4.6/5.0</h1>
<h1>8 University of Chicago 4.6/5.0</h1>
<h1>12 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 4.5/5.0</h1>
<h1>12 University of Pennsylvania 4.5/5.0</h1>
<h1>14 Brown University 4.4/5.0</h1>
<h1>14 Duke University 4.4/5.0</h1>
<h1>16 Dartmouth College 4.3/5.0</h1>
<h1>16 Northwestern University 4.3/5.0</h1>
<h1>16 University of Virginia 4.3/5.0</h1>
<p>In the last 20 years, Michigan's PA has been as high as #7 and as low as #13. </p>
<p>Gerhard Casper, Yale educated scholar and President Emeritus of Stanford University had this to say about Michigan:</p>
<p>“…I am extremely skeptical that the quality of a university – any more than the quality of a magazine – can be measured statistically. However, even if it can, the producers of the US News and World Report rankings remain far from discovering the method. Let me offer as prima facie evidence two great public universities: the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor and the University of California-Berkeley. These are clearly among the very best universities in America – one could make a strong argument for either in the top half dozen. Yet, in the last three years, the US News and World Report formula has assigned them ranks that lead many readers to infer that they are second rate: Michigan 21-24-24 and Berkeley 23,26,27...”</p>
<p>Whether or not their opinion is accurate is a matter for debate of course, but then again, that can be said of of virtually any ranking. One point I am pretty certain we can both agree with is that rankings are just a matter of opinion. I cannot prove that Michigan is a top 10 university and you cannot prove that it isn't. </p>
<p>In many tangible ways, Michigan can also lay claim to being a top 10 university:</p>
<p>1) Endowment: Michigan's endowment currently stands at $7.1 billion. That's the 6th (tied with Colunmbia) largest university endowment in the US. Only Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton and MIT are wealthier. Penn is the 7th wealthiest university in the nation, with an endowment of $6.6 billion. Michigan's endowment is also growing at a far faster rate than that of any other university. 20 years ago, Michigan's endowment was not among the top 30. In 20 years, Michigan's endowment has grown by over 2,500%. The second fastest growing endowment grew by 1,500%. Most endowments at top universities have grown by less than 1,000% in that period of time. </p>
<p>List</a> of U.S. colleges and universities by endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>2) Research spending and opportunities: Michigan spends roughly $800 million on research annually and is ranked anywhere from #1 to #3 in terms of research spending on an annual basis. And Michigan's research activities and opportunities are open to undergrads from the moment they step on campus. Freshmen are ivited to join over a 1,000 research projects annually. </p>
<p>3) Alums: Michigan's alumni body is one of the three largest and one of the wealthiest, most influential and most loyal. </p>
<p>4) Library: With over 8 million titles, the University of Michigan library is one of the 5 or 6 largest university libraries in the World. </p>
<p>5) Facilities: Michigan's academic buildings and medical and research facilities are among the very best and most up to date.</p>
<p>6) Average ranking of individual departments: Michigan is ranked among the top 15 in every single field of study and among the top 10 in most fields of study. Only Cal, Stanford and Harvard have more highly ranked departments.</p>
<p>ixjunitxi, when I said Michigan was among the top 10 universities, I meant among research universities. LAC are much better than research universities in some ways and cannot compete with them in other ways. Overall, they are TOTALLY different from research universities, so one cannot rank them alongside research universities. Secondly, as GoBlue points out, there isn't a clear cut group of 10 universities that comprise the top 10. I would say there are roughly 15-20 universities that can lay claim to the top 10, and Michigan is one of them for the reasons I mentioned above.</p>
<p>ixjunitxi: When you have a HARVARD professor stating that Berkeley is a better school than the one he teaches at (true story), I would think that is saying something right there. Then again, some people are so caught up with the aura of a 9% acceptance rate, they can't widen their vision and look at the school as a whole. So many things go into a college, who's to argue that Berkeley is 1 and Michigan is 2, or that Harvard is better than Yale, or Princeton is more prestigious than Michigan. It really all depends on what you want in a college. All the ones mentioned on this thread are very prestigious in their own right; it's really just a matter of personal preference. But, you are entitled to your opinions, just like the ninja on the street you are so infatuated with ;)</p>
<p>Honestly, public schools recieve higher P.A. from liberal academics than religious or private institutions do. Ex. Notre Dame (an UM rival) has a peer assessment of 3.9 but overall is ranked ahead of UM? Why is there PA so low? Easy, they are a Catholic school so therefore they are seen as less intellectual than Berkeley and UM. This is obvious bias if you examine the rankings. Overall, it works itself out because many more factors are considered. All three are great schools but the more selective student body belongs to Notre Dame, simply because UCB and UM have to take in-state students who would not be up-to-par academically for a private school of the same caliber. Anyone of maybe 30 or so schools can claim to be among the elite institutions in the country and world. Do not listen to rankings. Go by how you percieve the school and what it has to offer you (ex. Do not take into account how many volumes the school library holds... unless you plan on reading all 10 million volumes.)</p>