Is this schedule for the fall semester managable

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
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<p>Hello fellow brunonians. I was wondering if this course load was manageable for the fall semester. I was afraid that I might not have enough time to spend on extracurricular and “down time”. Also, I want to concentrate in Biochemistry or Biophysics. Also how different is Math 170 from 190. I “selected” Math 190 for now only because I have an interest in mathematics, and I thought taking the more rigorous sequence would be better for me.Even though I am not concentrating in Physics or possibly Biophysics , will taking MATH 190 be beneficial.</p>

<p>Course load:
PHY 50
APMA 350
MATH 190
CHEM 330
POLS 0820</p>

2

<p>Will you be a freshman? If so, this is probably just too much time for a 1st semester student. It’s possible that it’s a doable courseload, but you’ve got 2 lab sciences and 2 math classes with extra time in the form of a recitation (though I think APMA’s recitation is optional?), and you’ll be adjusting to college (and probably living away from home). APMA0350 and 0360 are actually reasonably challenging, too. I’d really recommend taking only 4 of these courses (the others will always be there next year) in your first semester to get a sense of what you can handle, to let you adjust, and so you can focus more on extracurriculars and socializing.</p>

<p>Between Math0170 and 0190, I’d go with 0170 (but shop both!). 0190 really adds a problem session for engineers and physicists, while 0170 is a more mathy course. At least my freshman year, 0170 was by far the more rigorous course, with a good number of proofs in the problem sets.</p>

3

<p>Uroogla,thank you for your input.What you said has helped me a lot. I think I’ll just take APMA next semester or next year. Also when I was looking at the classes available for the spring 2012 semester I noticed Calc 350, and other classes I wanted to take the first semester were not available. Does that mean those classes will not be held or are classes added as the months near the spring semester?</p>

4

<p>Math 0350 is never offered in the spring, only in the fall.</p>

<p>In general, although some minor changes are made as the spring approaches, the current list is mostly accurate. Many courses are offered only in the fall or only in the spring.</p>

5

<p>Without the APMA, that course load looks reasonable. You might not get the POLS FYS, so make sure you sign up for others to make sure you get into one, even if it isn’t your first choice. They’re a great way to get close contact with a professor.</p>

6

<p>^On the other hand, if you don’t get into your top FYS, be sure to shop it anyways and try to get into it (if there are fewer people in the class than registered when you shop it, ask the professor to put you on the top of the list for permission, or just wait around online right after class/periodically to see if a space opens up)</p>

7

<p>Don’t take APMA 35 this year. Most students, even applied math concentrators, don’t take the 35/36 sequence until sophomore year. This is because APMA 36–the course in that sequence that is offered in the Spring–requires extensive knowledge of linear algebra (Math 52 or Math 54). You want to take the entire sequence in one year so you don’t forget too much from 35 going into 36. So, I’d recommend holding off and just taking APMA 35 and Math 52 or 54 in the fall of 2012.</p>

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<p>I don’t mean to contradict what was said above, but just to offer another perspective. I took APMA35 in freshman fall, concurrently with MATH18. I then took APMA36 in spring, concurrently with MATH52. What was taught in linear algebra was sufficient for me to keep pace with what was happening in APMA36.</p>

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<p>^ How was the workload you encountered while doubling up on the math? Which sequence (MATH or APMA) was more time consuming or difficult?</p>

<p>On an only partially related point, I noticed that the course description for MATH1010 (Analysis) indicates that it can be taken concurrently with MATH520/540 (Linear Algebra) after multivariable calculus. Is anyone familiar with people who’ve done this and how they fared?</p>

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<p>The person I know who did this struggled with Analysis because he wasn’t ready for the rigorous proofs in analysis (math 54 and especially math 52 don’t go into great depth in proofs, and the student is often left to intuit how one should write up a solution). The year he took it, though, 1010 was much more challenging than it normally is. The very top math students are much more likely to take 54 and 153 concurrently. Although 54 is a prereq for 153, it really isn’t needed - a student with sufficient background in proofs could conceivably do that combination. Such a student is also much more likely to jump straight into 1130 and 1140 than to take 1010.</p>

<p>None of those statements are meant to be absolutes, and I’m sure there are some counter-examples.</p>

<p>Re: APMA and MATH - From what I’ve experienced through taking courses and helping people in courses, the APMA courses are not easy. I’d put courses like 35, 36, 165, and 166 above math 10, 18, and 52 in difficulty, and around the same difficulty as 17 (depending on the professor), 35, and 54. What I’ve experienced, though, is that none of those APMA classes (including 165 and 166) in any way compare to upper level pure math courses. I haven’t taken other advanced APMA classes, so it’s hard to say if they’re at the same level as the math courses I’ve taken. It’s worth noting, though, that many graduate level APMA and MATH classes are literally the same course.</p>

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<p>Way, way too much.</p>

<p>Don’t ever take five classes as a Freshman in the Fall. It’s just a bad decision. Even if your four are easy and manageable, don’t feel like you’re not doing enough; take advantage of the easy transition and begin to take in the overall college experience.</p>

<p>So take four. Absolutely take four.</p>

<p>And I would hold off on Physics 5. It seems like you could use a little more math seasoning first; it would go a long way.</p>

<p>I would make your schedule as such, picking from this group:</p>

<p>CHEM0330: It’s just a pre-req. Take it, ideally not with Stratt. Although you seem to really love Chemistry so maybe do it with Stratt. Just be sure to shop this one! I shot myself in the foot by not doing that. </p>

<p>POLS0820: I really wish I took a FYS. It’s a good transition to the college process and at least you’re in a class with a group of people who are all your same age. It’s just a good decision.</p>

<p>MATH0190: I’d probably take it instead of 0170. Generally, if you take the engineering version of these courses, you’re going to get a real professor or at least someone with a Ph.D. You want that, not some Israeli Amnesty International grad student who hates you. Yes, you, whoever you are. Also benefits from shopping, though… Some grad students are pretty good. The one I had for Linear Algebra (Dinakar Muthiah, if you’re interested) was actually tremendous.</p>

<p>APMA0350: Actually, this was one of my favorite classes at Brown. I loved the room, I loved the professor, I loved the caliber of the students (it’s interesting… the Honors section of math classes tends to favor smarter people but also ones with real personality. The non Honors ones are generally full of mindless drones who are wicked smaht but have no personality and can just make you hate the class more), I loved the Professor, Yan Guo, a wonderful Chinese man who would wake in with a sheet or two of loose-leaf paper and teach the whole class without looking at it, blinking, or taking off his jacket. I’d definitely consider taking this S/NC, too, by the way. Register for it initially as S/NC and if the homeworks are going well then switch to a grade. Great, great class. Worth it for the experience, if anything.</p>

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<p>Regarding MATH 17/19, the difference between these is insignificant such that you are better off just shopping the various sections of both courses to see which of the many instructors you take to. Also, it is not true that professors don’t teach MATH 17. If you feel uncomfortable taking a section taught by a grad student, there are sections led by professors you could go for. Again, shop and see whom you best take to, since there are so many different sections across both courses.</p>

<p>Just as a point of information, Yan Guo is not teaching APMA 35 in the fall. Also, I highly recommend that you at least get some working knowledge of multivariable calculus before enrolling in APMA 35. When I took the class (in fall of 09), I remember having to check back on topics that we have not yet covered in MATH 18 for some of the stuff we did in APMA 35.</p>

<p>Also, not to be contrarian, but while I agree that taking 4 classes freshman fall is generally sound advice, I wouldn’t go as far as to say that you “absolutely” shouldn’t take 5. Think about what you intend to get out of your first semester at Brown, then prioritize accordingly. For what’s it’s worth, I took 5 (real) classess freshman fall, to no great detriment.</p>

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<p>The question of 4 vs. 5 classes is a hard one. I know I could have handled 5 courses (and I’ve taken 5 real courses every term since my first semester). All the extra time to relax and make friends was really nice, though. I think 4 courses is the general advice of this board because, with students from all backgrounds, it’s impossible to say if the student can handle 5 courses (keep in mind that 5 courses is 20 credit hours, which is a substantial overload at many schools) in their first semester. There’s seldom a need to take 5 courses in the first semester, and burnout is a very real condition that we want people to avoid by being cautious.</p>

<p>So, certainly shop courses. I’m still opposed to 5 classes in this case because we’re dealing with multiple lab sciences, which take up a lot of time. But it’s ultimately up to you to decide what you can handle.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone. Being able to get advice from fellow Brown students is priceless. But I had one more question about what Amadeuic had suggested. Should I wait another year to start taking physics because I plan on taking mechanics, modern physics, and then electricity and magnetism in three semesters,but I though I might behind if I did not start this course sequence my freshman year.</p>

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<p>It really depends - do you have any intention of taking physics beyond that level? If not, putting it off a year is totally fine. Some people take these intro sequences as freshmen, but not everyone does. Unless you need those 3 courses as prereqs for something else, being behind really doesn’t have meaning. As a senior, I’m considering (admittedly not very seriously) taking APMA0350 and 0360, even though it’s typically underclassmen who take those courses. Since I don’t need them for anything else, I wouldn’t say I’m behind.</p>

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<p>Sorry to hear Guo isn’t teaching 35… He’s the man.</p>

<p>Anyway, I wouldn’t say you need to take MATH0180 at all for APMA0350. Honestly, partial derivatives are the only topic covered and they’re as easy as regular derivatives, so you won’t be left behind at all.</p>

<p>The lab point is a good one. You really don’t want two labs to start off with, either, and the CHEM0330 ones are especially annoying.</p>

<p>I don’t know what your goal in life is, but I think it’s probably not an issue if you put off Physics for a year.</p>

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<p>I gather that, while presumably uncommon, completing the A.B. requirements for physics while starting only in junior year is feasible. Could the same be said for Computer Science and/or the computer science requirements of the Computer Science-Economics joint major?</p>

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<p>^ Woops: Meant to say “sophomore year” instead of “junior year.” The latter would almost surely be impossible.</p>

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<p>I was recently telling my girlfriend that she could complete the requirements for a CS degree starting junior year. It’s definitely possible to do so starting sophomore year, and one of my friends just graduated having done so. The CS-Econ AB would be harder, and it depends on if you have any of the numerous prereqs - that degree seems to be the equivalent of an AB in CS and an AB in Econ. The Sc.B. is not that much more intensive than the A.B., here.</p>

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<p>Provided you started out in a science concentration, the ScB in CS would be possible to get starting in sophomore year, or alternatively (provided you had some applicable upper division courses like math under your belt beforehand), it would be possible but a little challenging to do an AB starting your junior year.</p>

<p>Assuming you took Abstract Algebra or some equivalent course already, you could do:
Junior Fall:
CS17, CS45 (though you likely would ONLY take 17 if you were a junior trying out CS)
Junior Spring:
CS18, an upper division course (like CS146 or 195L, which doesn’t require 16/18/19), and CS22 (or the equivalent, if they roll it out)
Senior Fall:
CS31, (if you didn’t take 22/equivalent, then 51 or 53), and an upper division (like Databases)
Senior Spring: One or two upper division courses, depending on whether you can count something you took in another department, or an upper division and 32, if you didn’t finish off your lower-division requirements</p>

<p>The only year it’s actually too late to switch into an AB in CS is your senior year, and even that you might be able to get permission to stay longer to do, depending on how the deans feel.</p>

<p>You need one intro sequence (17/18, 15/16, or 19), three intermediate courses (Fall: 45, 51, 53, 31, Spring: 32, 22) and four advanced courses (one or two of which do not have to be in the department). Come to think of it, that’s actually very do-able in 2 years, even provided you only took one course your junior fall.</p>