Is University of Michigan a long run declining school?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

Hello guys!

I was accepted to the U of M Engineering school in early February under regular decision and basically fell in love with the school, it’s town and its rankings and watched every video and read everything there was about UMich.

What I realized though is that a lot of people refer to UMich as like a school that was at its peak in the 80’s and now struggles with funding from the state of Michigan and they talk about Detroit and how it’s a ruined economy etc. Furthermore whenever I look up discussions about U of M I always find posts from like 2002 2004 or earliest 2008. It feels like people don’t really talk about this school anymore. They’re YouTube videos are also very nostalgic and showing of past achievements rather than what it’s doing right now.

I know the rankings have been consistently high for UMichigan programs and engineering but I’m worried that maybe in the long run Michigan may find itself declining because of its economic context or other factors. Is anyone familiar with U of M’s history and what it’s like now a days vs in the past?

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Look at it’s endowment growth.

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skankhunt, as you point our, Michigan has not dropped in the rankings.

Also, as PurpleTitan points out, endowment growth is a good data point. Michigan’s endowment has outpaced that of all other universities in the nation between 1990-2016. It currently stands at $9.6 billion, good for 6th or 7th largest in the nation.

Freshman Class Mid 50% ACT Range:
2006: 26-30
2016: 30-34

Freshman Class mid 50% SAT range:
2006: 1220-1420
2016: 1310-1500

Below is a placement report for Michigan CoE students. I think you will find it quite impressive.

http://career.engin.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2017/02/annualreport1516.pdf

Also, Detroit is no longer on the decline. It has leveled off and is actually on the rise. Not that it matters since Michigan is not a regional university. I would not worry too much about Michigan’s future…it is good to be a Michigan Wolverine! :wink:

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Wow…the OP’s post is going to make this thread interesting.

Them’s fighting words… b-(

But, no, UMich is, and will continue to be, an outstanding U.

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Truly long term trends can be difficult to decipher because they either involve too many variables or can be beyond willing imagination (e.g., will historic East Coast or southern schools suffer from either rising sea levels or increasing temperatures?). In the near to midterm, however, indications for UMichigan appear to be quite positive.

6

Well UofM isn’t really in Detroit either and it isn’t a short drive to get to Detroit. It is a fine university in the tradition of all the major public universities in the Midwest. My father attended in the early 40s and even then there was a mix of Michigan students, other midwestern students and a significant presence of New York and other NE states students. In that regard it hasn’t changed much.

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I don’t know what information you are reading, but hardly a day goes by that I don’t read an article referencing a U of M study or quoting a professor. ( Yeah, I read a lot, but still . . .) If anything, Michigan is stronger than it was in the '80s. Many of us old timers wonder if we’d still get in today :wink:

Not related but I’m curious: what’s up with nasty username?

8

Back in the 1990’s the regents realized that support from the state of Michigan was quickly eroding, and embarked on a campaign to raise money and assure long term revenue sources for the university. This predated many other state flagships who are struggling with these issues even today. The number of Michigan high school students was projected to decline, and Michigan has gone through a series of economic shocks starting with the 1973 oil crisis, the 1979 oil crisis and Carter malaise, the 1990 recession, etc. In addition, the government at the time began to divert funds to other directional universities, MSU, and prison construction.

Today, Michigan functions a lot like a private university. About 50% of students are OOS or international. Michigan is close to meeting full need due to its endowment of about $220K/ student. When you consider state support of about $11,500 per student, and assume an endowment of 20x that amount as an equivalent for 50% of the students, that is an equivalent of about $330K per student. That is about the same as Columbia.

Michigan continues to raise funds at an astounding pace, with the endowment approaching $10 billion. Michigan has the wealthiest student families of any state flagship. There is still some state support, but it is very small when compared to peer institutions.

In the early 1960’s nearly 80% of the budget was provided by the state. By 2012, it was down to 17%. To contrast, the state of California provided 37% of the UC Berkeley budget in 2012.

I would not be terribly concerned about Michigan’s ‘decline’. By almost any measure it has actually improved significantly in the past 20 years and continues to do so. The good news is that the economy in Michigan is improving, and Michigan never experienced the asset bubble, punitive taxes, and crippling regulations of coastal states and Illinois. This should result in long term funding stability for in-state students, and more fund raising from alumni.

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  1. University of Michigan is 35 minutes away from Detroit and has nothing to do with Detroit.
  2. If anything, the school is on the upswing. It's always been well-regarded, but it's becoming even more so.
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Does University of Michigan-Ann Arbor share its endowment with University of Michigan Flint and Dearborn campuses? I know the degree grantor for all three campuses officially is University of Michigan, which is why the paper diplomas for all three schools look the same. Also if i’m not mistaken students at Flint and Dearborn get to sit in the student section at Michigan football games.

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WildestDream, the University of Michigan’s endowment is $9.73 billion as of June 30, 2016. That’s for all three campuses. However, of of that amount, roughly $9.6 billion belongs to the Ann Arbor campus, while the remaining $130 million belongs to the Dearborn and Flint campuses.

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As a parent of a college student and Michigan tax payer, I think there are long term questions. U of M is a public University that in many ways acts like a private University. That has challenges. Each year it is harder for state students to obtain admittances. However, if U of M were to become independent, it does not have nearly the endowment of the best private universities. This is especially true when compared on a per student basis. I think some of these challenges can be seen in the quality of residence halls when compared to peer schools and the quality of consoling. That said U of M is clearly a top University where one can obtain a world class education.

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Think not what the school can do for you… think what you can do for the school. Ha! If you are really good, you will do well regardless what the school reputation will mean to you. JMHO>

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@tz2s6v I agree with you that it is increasingly difficult for in-state students to gain admission to the Ann Arbor campus of the University of Michigan. That trend is only going to increase. UM’s Regents realize that there is zero chance the funding levels of previous years will ever return, and so they are increasingly looking for OOS tuition to fund the university. However, Michigan has many other fine public universities where in-state students can go, so it’s not a case where they are being denied an excellent publicly supported education.

I disagree with you on the endowment. Michigan’s endowment is the largest of any public university and easily comparable to other very large private universities. The endowment also continues to grow and as Michigan enrols more OOS students, donations and endowment growth will only accelerate. At 17% and declining, Michigan does not want to live without state support but that is the REALITY it faces.

In fairness to UM administrators, Michigan voters and legislators long ago abandoned their commitment to publicly support the university. This began with Tisch back in the early 80s. Even the terminology has changed: Regents and the University know refer to Michigan being a “publicly assisted” university. That’s accurate: the taxpayer contributes to Michigan’s budget but in no way “supports” the university. Call it creeping privatization if you will, but it is a reality.

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“However, if U of M were to become independent, it does not have nearly the endowment of the best private universities.”

tz2s6v, I don’t think that is the case. Below is Michigan’s endowment vs some comparable private elites:

Northwestern University $10.2 billion
University of Pennsylvania $10.1 billion
University of Michigan $9.8 billion
Columbia University $9.6 billion
Duke University $8.5 billion
University of Chicago $7.5 billion
Cornell University $6.0 billion
University of Southern California $4.7 billion
New York University $3.6 billion
Johns Hopkins University $3.4 billion
Brown University $3.1 billion
Carnegie Mellon University $1.7 billion

“This is especially true when compared on a per student basis.”

Even on a per student basis, Michigan holds its own with most of its private peers, particularly when you factor in economies of scale
Northwestern University (21,000 students) $480,000
University of Pennsylvania (21,000 students) $480,000
University of Chicago (16,000 students) $470,000

Brown University (9,500 students) $325,000
Columbia University (31,000 students) $300,000
Cornell University (22,000 students) $270,000
University of Michigan (44,000 students) $220,000
Johns Hopkins University (21,000 students) $160,000

Carnegie Mellon University (14,000 students) $120,000
University of Southern California (42,000 students) $110,000
New York University (50,000 students) $72,000

“I think some of these challenges can be seen in the quality of residence halls when compared to peer schools”

Have you seen Brown, Columbia and Penn’s dorms? Michigan’s are nicer.

“and the quality of consoling”

Actually, the counseling at Michigan is excellent. Michigan places more students in top graduate programs than all but 5 or 6 universities in the country, but like most mentorship programs, it is up to the student to make the most of it.

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“What I realized though is that a lot of people refer to UMich as like a school that was at its peak in the 80’s and now struggles with funding from the state of Michigan and they talk about Detroit and how it’s a ruined economy etc. Furthermore whenever I look up discussions about U of M I always find posts from like 2002 2004 or earliest 2008. It feels like people don’t really talk about this school anymore. They’re YouTube videos are also very nostalgic and showing of past achievements rather than what it’s doing right now.”

Okay, before the proud Michigan alums really get rolling, let me make a few observations.

  1. It is true that they keep getting funding cut by the state, but it is now a very modest percent of the budget. Michigan ever increasingly runs like a private University. The large endowment rivals schools like Penn and allows Michigan to compete for top students.
  2. The trend of cutting public funding does hurt publics schools competitiveness, but the ones who are best positioned to weather the situation are the most distinguished schools like Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, Wisconsin, UCLA, Illinois etc.
  3. Michigan is especially strong in engineering, science, and business, so you are well positioned.
  4. It is true that some alums have a bad habit of looking heavily backward. You are very observant. However, the endless Bo Schembechler chatter (I am getting close to blasphemy here), does not mean that Michigan isn't still great today. It probably does mean that many alums are not completely up to date on all of the amazing things that are happening at the school currently. It is good that they are proud of their history, but they would be wise to market their present and future more strongly.
17

U of Michigan is ranked high across many areas. The Center for World University Rankings published their rankings recently and if you look at how Michigan did in top-10 placements in the world…UofM ranked THIRD in the world by ranking 57 times in the top-10. That is amazing. They were only behind Harvard and U of Toronto. Here is the press release.

http://cwur.org/media.php

Given this fact and 10 billion in the bank…I think U of Michigan should be in the top 10 institutions in US. Wall Street Journal ranked it as NUMBER ONE among the public Universities. WSJ base their ranking on how well their graduates do after college. Which is the most important fact …to a parent :slight_smile:

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@Alexander I was thinking of Michigan’s endowment in comparison to private colleges like Harvard ($37 billion @ $1.7 million per student), Yale ($25 billion @ $2 million per student) and Princeton ($22 billion @ $2.7 million per student). My understanding from the U of M endowment report is that the $9.7 billion endowment is for three campuses (Ann Arbor, Dearborn and Flint) and 61,000 students. That represents $159 K per student. Even a school like Notre Dame with a $8.7 billion endowment has an endowment of $714 K per student. That is over 4 x the Michigan endowment per student. Furthermore, according to the Michigan report I read the $9.7 billion is actually a sum of many smaller endowments. Many are targeted for specific uses across three campuses and are not generally available.

My point is that I believe U of M has done amazing things with relatively few resources over the last decades. I hope that they can keep it going in the future. I do think that there are issues that will need to be addressed that some of their peer schools will not experience. I am not saying that U of M is declining, but as a Michigan resident it does give me pause.

With respect to dorms at Brown, Columbia and Penn, I have not seen them. I will take your word for that. I have seen dorms at U of M, MSU, Duke, Princeton and Notre Dame recently. From what I saw, the U of M dorms were a step down. The U of M students I know seem to be in a hurry to move out of the dorms.

With respect to counseling, I was speaking more about the counseling provided to freshman as they find their way. It was based on comments from the sons and daughters of my friends and my daughter’s friends at U of M. That is admittedly a small sample, but their seemed to be a trend of less time available and less interaction helping freshman students select majors and plan their schedules. I could be wrong and don’t have hard data to back that up.

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@tz2s6v but doesn’t michigan have the highest endowment per capita for a public institution? obviously you cannot compare it to hypsm as those are the top 5 schools in the country.

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@skankhunt42 I’m actually dying of laughter at your username. Amazing reference.