<p>Most graduates of Ivies and other top schools rarely, if ever, discuss the idea of “prestige”. You’ll note that most people on this thread are HS students or current collegians. Alums find this kind of talk irrelevant. We each know stellar classmates as well as some mediocre ones. The idea that a UPenn resume would be viewed lesser than a Princeton one, in the real world, is pretty ludicrous.</p>
<p>Most of this chatter appears to be what outsiders guess is important to actual Ivy students. It’s simply not.</p>
<p>Why? Been there done that. I have an HYP diploma. Don’t give a flip about its “prestige” or how others view it. It simply pales in comparison to real life pursuits and concerns.</p>
<p>USNWR can flush their rankings in the toilet. I’d be first to put my hand on the handle</p>
<p>“Prestige” for Penn boils down to its upward trajectory in USNWR; it is a solid school, and likely in the top 20 of all elite universities and LACs. Is it as prestigious as Amherst or Stanford? Likely not. I do agree with T26E4 that it is the student and what they do with their post college lives that is the critical factor (who cares where you went to college if you are a top professional or academic or leader or CEO, musician or whatever)? If you are accepted at both Penn and for that matter Penn State, and attend either, you will likely do equally well in life (it is you, your smarts, and your drive that will determine your future, along with a bit of luck).</p>
<p>Dad2, not to pick nits, but Penn has been ranked at 4-7 in US News every year for the past 14 years. The “upward trajectory” in that ranking is, relatively speaking, ancient history. Penn’s place in the top 7 of the US News ranking is well established (especially for the average 17-year-old college applicant).</p>
<p>Also, while Amherst was perceived as more prestigous than Penn decades ago (when I, and I supect you, were applying to college), Penn’s acceptance rate has been lower than–and its average SATs, etc. have been the same as or higher than–Amherst’s for at least several years now. My impression is that among the current crop of college applicants, Penn is perceived as being at least as prestigious as Amherst. Again, I supsect you’re viewing this through a somewhat dated lense. :)</p>
<p>Furthermore, Wharton’s prestige is certainly at the highest of levels, at or just below that of HYP.</p>
<p>All that being said, I completely agree with you that ultimately, it’s the individual who determines his or her success in life, and not the “prestige” of his or her alma mater. I–and again I suspect you–have seen too many examples of that in our adult lives to believe otherwise.</p>
<p>Honestly, 45 percenter, ranking top schools is a bit like ranking great composers (is it worth quibbling over whether Schubert, Schumann or Haydn were “better”?). When I interview candidates for post graduate education (at an ivy league professional school) I am basically equally impressed, as a first pass, whether they attended Yale, Carlton, U Chicago or Middlebury (yes, even Penn ;)), but that luster either persists or rapidly wears away once I meet the individual person and review their records at said schools and their particular talents.</p>
<p>“Not really. According to US news, Wharton MBA is only #5, ranked below Northwestern.
Wharton is definitely declining.”</p>
<p>Hahahaha, I find that funny, I find it hard to believe that Wharton is “definitely” declining, maybe according to US News, but probably not everywhere else.</p>
No. My point was that you were mixing up the two. </p>
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First of all I didn’t say poor. I said “likely not wealthy.” Again I don’t appreciate you misconstruing my argument. </p>
<p>Anyways simply by using the phrase “Joe Schmo” you confirmed this: Joe Schmo, according to Wikipedia, “is used to identify the typical, everyday person who does not have any special status, frequently in contrast to some group.” Aka not a member of upper class society. Aka someone who lacks power and is contrasted with those who own the means of production (potential employers) or those who guard the gates to upper class society (grad/professional/med school admissions). </p>
<p>Had you used random person instead of “Joe Schmo” I would have been more sympathetic with your argument. </p>
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No genius this thread took a tangent to talk about Penn’s ease of acceptance versus other Ivies and I was posting a response to that.</p>
<p>MY GOODNESS, Senior0991…How on earth am I being elitist for NOT CARING ABOUT WHAT CERTAIN PEOPLE THINK OF PENN’S PRESTIGE??? THAT is what I want to know. NOT your opinion on the connotation of the name joe schmo. </p>
<p>What are you even saying anymore??? You can get offended at the use of a FICTITIOUS name all you want. Much like I don’t care about the opinions of some people, I don’t care about whether you would have been more sympathetic had I used “random person” vs joe schmo because it was in reference to a hypothetical scenario and a RANDOM PERSON is JUST as NONEXISTENT as JOE SCHMO! You’re not even being politically correct, just straight up annoying. </p>
<p>paternalism??? random person > joe schmo??? random person = unwealthy??? Where are you even going with this?</p>
<p>Dad2, though I agree with most of what you’ve said, and though I seriously considered applying to Amherst for a while, I’ve never seen and can’t ever see Amherst being at the same prestige level as Stanford…</p>
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<p>45percenter, for the purpose for which Wharton exists, isn’t it above YP?</p>
I’m surprised a future Penn student doesn’t have the mental capacity to figure it out. I don’t really think I can be any more explicit. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, after all Penn is a state school :p.</p>
<p>If Penn is so amazing compared to top LAC’s, then why does Swarthmore produce more per capita Nobel Prize winners and Williams more per capita Rhodes Scholars, and on-and-on. For top academic students, U Penn is more of a safety for those bent on elite LACs (Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore) or elite universities (Harvard, Yale, Stanford). If you look at where most students matriculate after graduating from some of the nations top independent schools, Penn typically lags behind HYP and the top 3 or 4 LACs. That said, its a good school (large, not in a great city, but good).</p>
<p>That’s what liberal arts colleges do. They produce a lot of academics. Penn tends to produce successful professionals. Take a look at a list of notable alumni. Even if you look at Wharton UG alone, which graduates fewer students per year than the LAC’s you hold so dear, the number of famous alums is absurd. </p>
<p>Penn’s admission standards are quantitatively higher than Williams/Swarthmore/Amherst, although all four are held in high regard. When I attended a top boarding school in Massachusetts as recently as 2/3 years ago, Penn was held in higher regard than the top LAC’s. All of the Ivies were, save possibly for Cornell. </p>
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<p>That’s absurd. An Ivy League university with an acceptance rate around 10% during RD is not a safety. I was a top academic student in every sense of the word, and Penn was not a safety by any stretch of the imagination. Nor was it a safety for any of my peers. </p>
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<p>My high school was considered by many sources to be the nation’s top independent school. You are wrong. Penn is a huge draw for the prep school crowd. The number of matriculants was right up there with HYP and far in excess of the top LAC’s. </p>
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<p>Stop passing half-baked judgment on a school you seem to know little about. Whether or not Penn deserves to be #5 in USNews is arguable(although it would be a silly argument if played out), but it is a top American research university that is top 10 in many fields like econ/linguistics/life sciences. Its undergrad business is legendary and unrivaled, and its professional schools are top notch including a top 10 law, top 5 mba, and often top 3 med.</p>
[I typed this and had to step away from the computer before posting, and in the interim, WoodrwowWilsonJR posted his response. But at the risk of being a bit redundant, I’ll go ahead and post it.]</p>
<p>Sorry, Dad2, but again, your facts–and views–are quite dated when it comes to Penn in general, and its prestige and desirability among current top applicants vis-a-vis the top LACs. Also, you again fail to account for Wharton in particular, which is chosen by many top applicants over HYPS and the top LACs. Furthermore, if you look at the current college placement lists of the top independent schools, you’ll see that Penn is among the top few destinations–and certainly well above the top LACs–at virtually all of them. For example, over the last several years at California’s vaunted Harvard-Westlake School, Penn has gotten the highest number of out-of-state applications; and perhaps even more significantly, Penn is the school at which the second highest number of Harvard-Westlake grads have matriculated over the past 5 years, including all colleges and universities in California:</p>
<p>I happen to have those particular stats at my fingertips, but I’ve looked at college placement lists for some of the most prominent New England prep schools, and Penn also does very well at those schools–certainly as good as or better than the top LACs.</p>
<p>A lot has changed at Penn over the last couple of decades that has greatly enhanced its standing in the world of elite college admissions (e.g., being consistently ranked at 4-7 by US News for each of the past 14 years). And although HYP hold a cachet among top applicants that Penn, in general, still can’t match (although Wharton can and does), admission to Penn is now as or more competitive than admission to the top LACs (e.g., Penn has a lower acceptance rate and the same or higher average SATs, etc. than AWS).</p>
<p>This year, Penn has received 31,000 applications and will probably have an acceptance rate of about 12%. Hardly a “safety” of any kind, and certainly not for the elite LACs.</p>
<p>And I must also dispute your mischaracterizaton of Philadelphia as “not a great city.” For those in the know, Philly has cultural amenities that compare quite favorably to those in any other American city (top art museums; great restaurant scene including over 200 sidewalk cafes in Center City, alone; more professional theatre companies than any other city except NYC and Chicago; unparalleled historic sites and neighborhoods; the largest urban park system in the US; a bustling, affluent, residential, and approachable Center City just a few blocks from the Penn campus, and much more).</p>
<p>Again, as they used to end those NBC public service announcements, “the more you know . . . .” :)</p>
Gotta love that googlepo/radiosix/gugupo/Y<strong>7</strong>! :D</p>
<p>And by the way, googlepo/radiosix/gugupo/Y<strong>7</strong> , a degree from Penn is hard to get if you can’t get admitted! But I guess you already know that. ;)</p>