<p>For colleges that most people find to be far less prestigious than the mighty Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Princeton, both UofPenn and Duke seems to have way too high US News rankings in relation to their level of prestige. Many people in my school have no idea that UPenn even exists, and most people only know about Duke because of basketball. Upenn and Duke certainly do not belong in the same league as HYPS. Have the editors of US News gone bonkers? </p>
<p>Also, what’s up with UofPenn constantly saying the word “ivy” on its admissions website. The only schools that people perceive to be ivy are Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, MIT, and maybe West Point.</p>
<p>Ummm...the last time I checked, Penn was one of the 8 official members of the Ivy League, an athletic sports league that does not include Stanford, MIT, or West Point. Its members are not based on prestige, although they are 8 of the best universities in the country. Although other schools, such as Stanford, MIT, and CalTech, may be more prestigious than many of the Ivy schools, they are not official Ivy schools themselves.</p>
<p>The US News rankings, while flawed in many respects, are not based on how well known a school is to the average person. However, I do feel that Penn, great as it is, is not better than Stanford or MIT. I dunno how Penn's stats outdid those schools, but it really doesnt matter- they're all awesome.</p>
<p>As much as I love Penn, I wonder if Penn's ranking at #4 is bolstered by Wharton's image? Regardless, if Wharton wasn't a part of Penn, Penn would still be in the top 10-12 since it is an Ivy and a very good school for academics. Yeah, my family and I were talking about schools the other night and none of them had ever really heard of Penn, but they all knew of Stanford, MIT, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, etc. I wonder how names become bigger than others?</p>
<p>Gutrade, if not many people in your school even know Penn exists then it's probably more an issue of the people not being too knowledgeable, than Penn being far below HPYS in terms of prestige.</p>
<p>the reason this is b/c University of Pennsylvania sounds like a state school, so does University of Chicago. Nonetheless, they are prestigious schools. Also, UPenn was a run down place not to long ago, and has really changed. I think even its alums do not realize how much it has changed.</p>
<p>Yes, my dad went there in the seventies, and it's completely different than it was back then. Judith Rodin changed the entire feeling of the campus.</p>
<p>Penn recently revamped the campus and academic life, so it has shot up in the rankings in the past few decades. As for its currrent 4th place in USNWR, that's most likely due to the Wharton undergrad program, which attracts a lot of potential business majors who might otherwise go to HYPS. In terms of prestige and name recognition, Penn's is not nearly as high as HYPS, especially internationally.</p>
<p>I honestly don't think that Penn is not comparable to Stanford or MIT in prestige. For the general public, it is usually HYP and everything else.</p>
<p>More informed people seem to know better: Penn's yield is comparable to Stanford, Yale, and Princeton.</p>
<p>For the general public it's HYPSM and everything else. For the prestige-whores, it's HYPSMC and everything else. For people in the know, it's top 30 and everything else.</p>
<p>Yeah Stanford and MIT are totally well known among even the most ignorant people. Stanford for sure. </p>
<p>I think more people know more about Stanford than Yale and Princeton. Harvard definitely takes the cake though. I don't think UPenn and Duke are really comparable to Stanford and MIT even though they are ranked higher. However, US News isn't only about prestige, selectivity, and undergraduate quality. It's also about selling magazines.</p>
<p>Cov's right. You are an idiot. Do you even know what the IVY league is? Do you know how schools are ranked? Please tell me how a methematical formula can inflate a certain school? That's like saying 2 shouldn't be 1+1 because, well, 2 seems a little high. I also highly suggest that you look up the word prestige because you'll find that it means something other than "having a rich-white-guy last name." Christ. If they had only called it Franklin university instead...</p>
<p>I also highly suggest you stop living in the 1980s. Seriously, things have changed since then.</p>
<p>"Please tell me how a methematical formula can inflate a certain school? That's like saying 2 shouldn't be 1+1 because, well, 2 seems a little high.</p>
<p>Please don't tell me that you are saying that the formula that US News uses is as concrete and solid as the equation 1+1=2. That's just folly. US News is fickle. People's perceptions are not. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT are the nation's premier schools. Ranking UPenn or Duke above one of them is just crazy. It's like the THES ranking putting Berkeley above everyone except Harvard. Ah the incongruities.</p>
<p>"People's perceptions are not. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT are the nation's premier schools. Ranking UPenn or Duke above one of them is just crazy. It's like the THES ranking putting Berkeley above everyone except Harvard. Ah the incongruities."</p>
<p>Just because they aren't fickle doesn't mean that they aren't inherently flawed. What does Joe Bob Average know about academic institutions besides hype and brand name? It's self perpetuating. If what people thought defined truth then Duke and Notre Dame would be equivalent to Harvard, as far as Texas is concerned.</p>
<p>Just because UPenn is ranked #4 on US News it doesn't mean it is ranked #4 in the hearts and minds of people in the world. Public perception of a school is way more important than a ranking published by a Newsweek wannabe. Anyway, when people think about the very best schools in America, UPenn simply does not come to mind. There was a recent gallup poll that measured the perceived prestige of universities amongst the public. Harvard came first, followed by Stanford and Yale and then Princeton. Even schools like Berkeley and Notre Dame came up. UPenn wasn't even mentioned.</p>
<p>As I stated, my family(aunts and uncles) had never really heard of Penn, but were fully aware of schools such as Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Brown, Duke, Stanford, Dartmouth...etc. ah...to hell with my family :)
But really, it is amazing that out of all eight Ivies, Penn is the least talked about except for maybe Wharton among the "business freaks". It has to be the name...</p>
<p>Ccollegeperson and Gutrade too -- I don't know if you've noticed, but top schools (and this of course includes Penn) tend to admit kids who will someday be leaders and innovators. I would be shocked if a sizeable portion of future leaders and innovators made choices about their education based on the perceptions of the general (and generally uninformed) public. </p>
<p>Oh yea, and US News can publish whatever it wants. (And in this case, there are many reasons why it is justified in publishing what it does. Penn certainly is a top school.) You may call it insane, but you're buying into the insanity if you follow the rankings.</p>
<p>So, basically, I don't understand the point of your argument.</p>
<p>"Please don't tell me that you are saying that the formula that US News uses is as concrete and solid as the equation 1+1=2. That's just folly. US News is fickle. People's perceptions are not. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT are the nation's premier schools. Ranking UPenn or Duke above one of them is just crazy. It's like the THES ranking putting Berkeley above everyone except Harvard. Ah the incongruities."
Ah the incongruities indeed. I suggest you get yourself a clue. The <em>only</em> subjective area of the US News rankings are Peer Assessments, which do not come from USN itself. It comes from (guess where) peer institutions. USN surveyed the colleges is ranks and found that, overwhelmingly, its criteria are considered either "important" or "very important" measures. The Peer Assessment fell into those measures.
However, you immaturity (or at least naivite), or lack thereof, is highlighted when you say "even schools like berkely..." The smartest 18 year I know (except for me!) is attending Berkely. So are many other equally intelligent 18 year olds, many of whom chose it over Harvard, Stanford, Penn, et. al. Also, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that state schools are at a disadvantage in the USN rankings because people are less likely to give to a state school (regardless of their enduring feelings for said institution) than they are to a private school.</p>
<p>And last time I checked, Joe Hillbilly doesn't employ people. Those that count know what Penn is. In fact, those that don't count also know what Penn is! In the last 3 weeks I've met about 20 different people and I've seen each of their faces glow when I told them I was going to Penn and I live in an environment similar to what many people who attend Penn will end up in: Los Angeles.</p>