<p>Perhaps because the signal is visual, rather than auditory or olfactory.</p>
<p>I don’t like the way people look if they have extensive body piercings. Except when I need to deal directly with such a person (such as the counter clerk at my pharmacy, who has a massive collection of decorated holes in his head), I can look away. But if a person makes loud noises or smells bad, I can’t get away from that stimulus unless I leave the area completely.</p>
<p>I would rather have to look briefly at the piercings of the pharmacy clerk than to stand for half an hour in the pharmacy line in front of or behind someone who is wearing heavy perfume or having a loud argument on a cell phone.</p>
<p>I haven’t noticed any pj bottoms but then I also haven’t gone near Ds high school.</p>
<p>As she said when I asked her why they didn’t have pajama day during spirit week (when they have “themed” days) “Every day, is pajama day @ Garfield”.</p>
<p>Bay, you’ve identified upthread a number of things that MOST people would consider off limits: exposed butt crack, excessive breast cleavage, nakedness. Certainly, people who don’t think others make judgments about them based on what they wear are fooling themselves. But there really does seem to be a range in what most people consider to be acceptable, beyond those baseline prohibitions, even if they wouldn’t wear a certain type of clothing themselves. </p>
<p>With all due respect, it does seem that you are more likely to be offended (even “literally disgusted”) by some things that others might frown at but not get that bent out of shape about, unless the offender were an employee (in which case, I believe employers have every right to set whatever code pleases them), a child (in which case, I believe parents have the right to set standards even if those are honored more in the breach by some rebellious sorts), or a spouse. </p>
<p>I could not care less what people wear in public, though I find it very difficult to look at people who have large holes in their earlobes. It really bugs me, to the point that I’d walk to the other side of the street to avoid looking at someone sporting that look. Whose problem is that? Why, I’d call it mine! I cannot change the fact that this fashion is acceptable to a growing number of people, but I can’t change my visceral reaction to it. That doesn’t mean people with big holes in their earlobes are not being polite to me.</p>
<p>(Crossposted with Marian, who apparently shares my distaste for extensive piercing! I should add that I have a terrific employee who is pierced almost to the point that I’d want to avoid looking at him if I met him on the street.)</p>
<p>Although I also do not care for extensive piercings, I have less of an issue with that look than with people who admit to “not caring” about their appearance.</p>
<p>Everyone’s taste in clothing is different, obviously. If those of you who claim to not care, had instead said that you like the look of baggy sweats for any occasion, then I could understand that. It is the “not caring” rationale that makes me conclude that some may be selfish and lazy, because what you are saying is that you do not care that others may be forced see you looking sloppy or inappropriate, and that is inconsiderate.</p>
<p>I don’t share bay’s sentiment of being “offended,” fwiw.</p>
<p>And we haven’t been talking about “having” to wear designer clothing to be attractive / stylish, so the strawmen being set up a few posts ago aren’t valid.</p>
<p>My 93 yo grandmother still makes an effort to wear attractive, stylish clothing (within the context of her age group), accessorize, etc. She comes up with outfits that I wish I had! She’s on a limited budget and was never well-to-do (blue collar) so it’s not a function of “money” or “designer.” It’s a point of view that it’s good to take care of one’s physical appearance and present a pleasant appearance. The moment she pulls on a cat-lady sweatshirt is the moment we know she’s lost her will to live, and I’m only half-joking.</p>
<p>I did not say that I didn’t care about my own appearance. I said that I don’t care how other people look. I do think there’s a difference. </p>
<p>When I am out in public, I mostly view a sea of people in jeans, some well fitting and some not so. I generally don’t notice or care unless someone is well outside the norm, in which case I might have a reaction that is something other than neutral. Your position is interesting to me, though, and it will make me think twice when I throw on something old and ratty to go to the coffee shop. I’m not being arch; I’m being honest.</p>
<p>What you say about “liking the look of baggy sweats” makes me laugh, because my own D doesn’t own a pair of sweats and would not be caught dead wearing them, which I learned when I asked her why she didn’t buy some with her high school colors. I think they can be kind of cute. Not at a funeral. But okay at the grocery store.</p>
<p>The only thing that bothers me is showing a lack of common sense. There was a mom at D’s school that always wore shorts that were too short and tight and tank top that was equally ill-fitting.</p>
<p>Soccer moms that take any effort to look nice on the sideline at games make me laugh-- I fail to see any point to it.</p>
<p>As stated before my real clothes issue is a passionate hatred from the dresscode in my office. If I want to wear jeans and my Sambas every day, I should be allowed to. I should also recognize if I have a meeting outside of the building then I may have to dress up and should have appropriate clothes available to me.</p>
<p>PG–my mom wore stunning suits as a professional for many decades and was always more stylish than i am. Arthritis has made it necessary to dress for comfort. She wouldn’t go out of her way to buy a cat sweatshirt, but neither would she be churlish enough to eschew to wear one given as present (which has happened in the past.)</p>
<p>But passing her on the street, you wouldn’t know any of that, would you? So you’d be free to entertainment whatever judgment you did or didn’t want to make.</p>
<p>Bay, I dont even know where to begin to respond to the equating of the mere fact of wearing sweats with shouting at people and lack of hygiene. As absweetmarie said, viewing that as “offensive” is in the mind of the viewer. Or we’ve redefined offensive.</p>
<p>Garland,
It may be a matter of upbringing. My father, who was the son of a dirt poor farmer, once told me that I should not be wearing jeans on a plane, because I would be around so many people and it was disrespectful to them. Inside, I laughed at that because everyone wore jeans on the plane, but I understood his point and I think it still applies.</p>
<p>I may be the one out of date about the wearing of sloppy sweats and pajamas in public, but I know I am not alone in those thoughts, so it may something that people should keep in mind.</p>
<p>Adding, my objection to wearing sweats in public only applies to those sweats that are “sloppy” (and all pajamas). I know that is impossible to define, but it really is not hard to discern between people who look like they cared to make an effort in their selection and those that did not. It is not a hard and fast rule, either, because stuff happens and we get stuck sometimes. I don’t think there would be much question in the case of people who wear sloppy sweats everyday, though, and the OP asked about wearing sweats as daily wear.</p>
<p>I’m really not in the habit of sniffing at 80 year old women that they aren’t meeting my sartorial standards, garland. Truth be told, I’m really not in the habit of sniffing at anyone for their clothing, unless it’s absolutely wildly inappropriate for a situation (and no, cobrat, I don’t mean jeans-with-rips or sweatpants on campus). I’m telling you what I prefer for <em>me.</em></p>
<p>This is rather like the elite school discussion in a way - some of us really like / value the opportunity to send our kids to elite schools (should their talents and our budgets so align), but that doesn’t mean we sniff at everyone who sends his or her kids to a local or state school and doesn’t engage in the topic. We just have preferences for ourselves. I prefer, all else being equal, to send my kids to elite schools even though the state flagship would do them just fine. I prefer, all else being equal, to dress attractively/stylishly even though I’m still “decent” and covered in sweatpants and sweatshirt.</p>
<p>I think that’s a good distinction, PG, and one that’s getting short shrift in this thread. There’s a really large gap between “this is what I prefer” and “this thing that others do is offensive.” Preference vs. judgment. I think that’s important to keep in mind. Thank you.</p>
<p>First, I think it is interesting that on this thread you have sometimes equated less mainstream dress with bad hygeine. Why is that? In your mind, are non-conformists dirty? I see no difference between a doctor in scrubs and a student in sweats on a public street. Of course, unless the student has on a school logo, I may get confused about his status in society. (OP - maybe your son wants to have the school name on his tee?;)) I think doctors and students usually have enough status and power in society to dress in scrubs or sweats without being personally disadvantaged. There really is no peril for them in breaking dress code rules. I would argue they are even dressing within the rules. Even though you will disagree about the student in sweats. </p>
<p>garland wrote:
</p>
<p>This is a serious question to me. Who is this “vast majority” defining cultural norms and why are we buying into them? Why is PG’s uniform the What Not to Wear standard and Ms. Jersey Shore has a show most of the country finds comic? Who is telling us what to wear? Corporate America? Suburban PTA members? Advertisers? Are we being manipulated? If so, why?</p>
<p>Or are these just crazy questions to be thinking about?</p>
<p>I am not sure the “vast majority” do care. I do know some hip-hop kids and some queer kids purposefully dress to offend the “vast majority”. I have decided this is a very good thing when it makes us question almost unconscious prejudices.</p>
<p>I did not do that. You are the one that labelled lack of certain hygiene activities as “bad.” See how that works?</p>
<p>I merely asked why not caring about one’s clothing in public (when most people do) is okay, while not caring about certain hygiene activities (which most people care about) is not okay. How do you draw that distinction?</p>
<p>I always feel bad for the mothers who feel the need to apologize to me for how they look. </p>
<p>I work at a photography company for youth sports. The shoots often start at 8:00 AM or earlier on Saturdays. At the first shoots, I almost always have a mom in sweats apologizing for being in sweats. She often has two-four young children in tow and was lucky to get her kid up and dressed in the right uniform on a weekend. I legitimately feel terrible that they feel the need to apologize. Ma’am, you managed to get all of your children up and here early in the morning. You deserve praise, not judgement.</p>
<p>Okay, that is your interpretation. You see wearing dirty underwear as “bad” hygiene. I did not say it was “bad,” I said I thought wearing one’s pajamas from the night before is the same as wearing dirty underwear. Wearing dirty underwear disgusts me.</p>