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<p>Whoa, “less mainstream” might include someone who is goth, or bohemian, or artsy, or uber-preppy. We were talking specifically about sweatpants/sweatshirt worn on a daily or near-daily basis, with little/no thought to aesthetics other than physically covering the body. Someone who is, I don’t know, Stevie-Nicks-gypsy looking is certainly taking effort / care in the way she presents herself.</p>
<p>Oh PG - No offense intended! I describe my own look (in which I thumb my nose at What Not To Wear as a “uniform” and as Bay pointed out scrubs are a “uniform”</p>
<p>I would be hard pressed to think of anyone who doesn’t sort of have a uniform.
I love the uniform. 
I looooove all the uniforms…</p>
<p>…
oh nooo. I have to go do some other stuff. :(</p>
<p>Bay, I feel bad that she feels the need to apologize for that- because she thinks she might be offensive. It’s really sad that she thinks that someone cares more about the fact that she showed up in sweats than the fact that she was a wonderful mom who showed up at all. THAT should be what’s important, not what’s covering her legs.</p>
<p>The false accusation that those of us who don’t like sloppy sweats (and pajamas) dislike all non-conformists is really getting old.</p>
<p>romani,
I would say that you should not feel sorry for her at all, and gracefully acknowledge her apology. She obviously has her own standards that she must want to care about, or she wouldn’t apologize. She feels she is being thoughtful and considerate to you by apologizing, and that is a nice thing.</p>
<p>“Who is this “vast majority” defining cultural norms and why are we buying into them?”</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about this, and I think it’s really classism at work here. We-and by “we” I mean middle to upper income whites, tend to see “class” as dressing according to certain norms-for some this is “cute little sweaters” and shoes most average folks can’t afford, or at least feeling like they should explain they were NOT wearing sneakers, but $100 “walking shoes”. For others, it’s intimating that sweats in public are as bad as going out with one’s hair or teeth unbrushed. For some it’s wearing clothes that are “current” and/or “in season”, i.e. what you see in the windows at Nordstroms or Neiman Marcus or in Vogue Magazine.</p>
<p>That woman I stood behind last night in the store with her headwrap, non-matching top and skirt and decidedly non-cute shoes? I guess she wouldn’t cut it by any of the above definitions of appropriate wear. The older lady walking in sneakers, too-loose jeans and a formless jacket probably doesn’t either-but I’ll bet her feet are better off since she walks to and from the grocery store because she can’t afford a car. </p>
<p>I honestly think it’s less about not caring than about what really matters-food, shelter, that you have clothes at all. But that’s probably lost on people who rely on stores, magazines and price tags to dictate how they look.</p>
<p>I live in Seattle, so I see my fair share of non-conformist outfits. Non-conformist clothing can be cool, hip, stylish… PJ bottoms and Juicy sweats aren’t. Sloppy and really NOT non-conformist at all. That said, if I were teaching an 8 am college class, I’d rather see my students wearing their sweats and PJs in the classroom than speak to a bunch of empty desks while they beautify themselves.</p>
<p>I think when people like themselves (inside out) they tend to take better care of themselves, and when they are attracted to someone they tend to want to look good for that person. When people are in good shape they want to wear tighter pants, sexier dress to show off. When I don’t feel well or depressed, I like to put on my sweats and just curl up. If someone feels fine wearing sweats every where, I would wonder why.</p>
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D2 gets up half an hour early to make herself presentable before she goes to class. D1 can get herself ready in 15 min now because she needs to be at work everyday by 7am. I am sure her boss wouldn’t appreciate her wearing PJs just because she managed to get to work on time.</p>
<p>But, (taking my turn to play that fun game: “let’s get back to the theme of this thread”), the original topic wasn’t people who only wear sweats; it’s whether they’re appropriate on campus. I doubt there are many students who live in them; I’m sure they’re a few who do. As BB says, I’m just glad they show up in class. Especially for my morning classes, that’s probably the majority of what I see–not very many want to spend time accessorizing for an 8 o’clock.</p>
<p>(cross-poste with OF. And I’m impressed you know your kids’ habits; I have no idea in what state mine showed up in class.)</p>
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<p>I felt the same way when an older friend in her mid '80s apologizes for not dressing formally whenever I visit her home. Especially considering it’s much more of a struggle for her to do basics like getting dressed formally due to some mobility impairments due to recent medical issues.</p>
<p>“When people are in good shape they want to wear tighter pants, sexier dress to show off”</p>
<p>Actually, that’s a wild generalization. Lots of people in good shape do NOT want to wear tighter clothes or look sexy. My boss is a pastor. She recently lost a good bit of weight. She is not dressing more sexy at ALL. In fact, after a 3-month mission trip to Africa, she’s dressing in looser, ethnic clothing. People from MANY cultures believe it’s not appropriate to wear tight, sexy clothes. </p>
<p>Some people really just don’t bother with looking fashionable and don’t see sweats as something one wears only when depressed, either. When I lived in NH, there wasn’t a winter day that I wasn’t in sweats when at home, and sometimes, if I had to suddenly run an errand, whoops-bad clothing alert!</p>
<p>I agree with not wanting to look sexy. I’ve only recently gotten to the point where I can dress halfway nicely and not be bothered by yahoos when I am out & about.
For years I dressed in baggy matronly clothes when I was out with my kids, because I didn’t like the attention not because I liked the clothes.</p>
<p>olfort, as long as the sudents can differentiate between “oops, I’m running late for my class” in college and “whoa, I was up all night partying and have no time so I just wear sweats for my presentation to investors”… The former is OK, the latter spells professional doom. If a kid only has 15 min before the first class, I’d rather see him spend that time to grab something to eat and brush his teeth. My fashionista kiddo, who would not show up in sweats offcampus, wore sweats to class more than on one occasion, yet when the circumstances demanded professional, polished looks (presentation, interview, etc.), she made sure that she had enough time to dress impeccably (even get some clothing drycleaned beforehand :eek:). Nowadays she works for an NGO in a country where women put on makeup and dress to the nines even when they have to run to the corner store to get some bread. Sigh.</p>
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Come on, that’s not even a good counter. A pastor? Since when do they ever dress to be sexy?</p>
<p>Sexy is probably too strong of a word for people our age. What about appealing, put together, with it, not old fuddy duddy?</p>
<p>Does anyone really care what others wear to class? I worked nights in a restaurant and wore sweats to class every morning. Those 8 a.m. classes were brutal.</p>
<p>Well, OF, that isn’t what you originally said, and it appeared to include everyone. And really, I think the defination of “put together” and “not fuddy duddy” is in the eye of the beholder, AND I’m pretty sure plenty of folks aren’t the least bit interested in being “with it”, no matter how thin they are.</p>
<p>I took my D on a college tour at Oberlin recently. I came away thinking it would be good for her, raised in a non-diverse middle class suburb, to go somewhere and meet a range of students who look different from her, get to know them and learn not to be quick to judge based on appearance.</p>
<p>As I read this thread, I am sure some of you would think I was depressed or did not like myself based on my clothing, but that just reflects your prejudice. At the same time, I may be judging you by your styled hair, makeup, nails, and clothing and not liking what I see either. </p>
<p>When I was working, I chose a job in a casual environment. I would not work where I had to dress up every day. I have a few nice outfits I wear when I read at church services, and I have been wearing the same ones for 15-20 years. (Yay for elastic waists!) I am sure there are people who notice that I wear the same things over the years, but if that bothers them, I really don’t care. Buying new clothing to be stylish, put together, etc, does not interest me.</p>
<p>I am amused by this thread, and especially the LENGTH of this thread. Unless my objective is to “present” myself, for example at work, public speaking, or somewhere culturally “important” like church or a gathering/party, etc. as long as my body is covered, my clothes are clean, in good repair and generally match I don’t give it a second thought. Nor do I care what anyone else is wearing in casual settings. Perhaps that’s the argument - is the classroom a casual setting? I believe it has become so.</p>
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<p>Are the people who defended wearing sweats everyday on this thread because they don’t care how they look, poor?</p>
<p>At least a couple of them are physicians. It doesn’t sound like a class issue to me.</p>