<p>I find it hard to believe a pediatrician wore sweats in the office unless it was in the middle of the night and he was on call or it was a very very casual Friday! I’m a pediatrician and I know my patients expect a certain look. It’s just part of the persona. Pediatricians aren’t overly formal, as docs go, but they still usually dress “professionally”. You can say you don’t care what people think of what you wear. That’s fine-- just know that some kind of judgement may be made about you. You can say you don’t care what other people wear-- just know that many people, maybe even including you, will make some kind of judgement about them, even a subconscious one. I really think that strenuously denying the truth of either of these statements is somewhat disingenuous.</p>
<p>I’m not “offended.” I don’t care. But I like to look nicer, all else being equal.</p>
<p>I’m in Tokyo now. I’m about to do some sightseeing and shopping. I could put on sweats. But I’m going to wear nice black pants and a crisp white blouse and walking shoes. My hair and makeup will be done. Not overdone, not “dressy,” but done.</p>
<p>“Nice value judgment proving the point of those who feel those who place a premium on dressing formally/appearances are judgmental. Interesting…”</p>
<p>For the gazillionth time, cobrat, I am NOT TALKING ABOUT DRESSING FORMALLY. I don’t know where the assumption comes from that anything above sweats is “formal.” Stop it.</p>
<p><strong>cromette sitting in her fluffy chair in her crazy cat lady sweats eating cheesesticks and drinking an adult beverage watching the show</strong></p>
<p>“Why do you not own and wear these items that some might regard as frivolous and merely a status symbol to make themselves feel better? Are they unnecessary? Over the top? Frivolous? As I stated, there are those that find such items necessary, and may even feel superior to those (you and me) that do not share their values.” </p>
<p>You’re really a little off here. People can like / own nice things (diamond earrings, a Cartier watch, an Hermes scarf, a Loro Piana cashmere sweater, whatever) nd it doesn’t mean they “think themselves superior” to those who don’t have such things. It just means they like nice things and can afford them.</p>
<p>And we haven’t been talking about expensive or designer things on this thread, just looking polished, which can be done with clothing from Target if needed.</p>
<p>"They will, though. But if you don’t care how they feel about your clothing, what difference does it make? "</p>
<p>I guess I feel that everybody is entitiled to their opinion, but that opinion should never affect the interpersonal experience and the way that people are treated. I feel it is unfortunate that some people may allow their personal judgement of somebody’s appearance to affect the way they interect with somebody. Understand, I have been working in emergency departments for two decades, and have met many fine people in rags, and many, well, sphincter type people dressed expensively that exuded an air of superiority. I always try to treat both parties the same (but it’s hard with the second party).</p>
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<p>And I can’t see why you, Bay, or others feel that dressing in sweats, other “slobby” clothing or being a slob is such a negative thing. :D</p>
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<p><strong>cobrat sitting in his deskchair in a white cotton t-shirt given to him by a classmate during his undergrad days and a pair of khaki shorts munching on peanuts and drinking green tea watching & contributing to the show.</strong> </p>
<p>:D</p>
<p>i admit that i realize that others have a different personal standard than I do.</p>
<p>for example- H has the mantra " do it right the first time".
which is great- until you realize that many things that need to be done wont even be attempted unless there is the money, skill, & time available to " do it right the first time".
If i had worried about an appropriate wardrobe, our family probably wouldnt have had season tickets to the theatre, or gone out to eat any place fancier than Dennys.
If there is something that needs to be done, some people might thnk its better to do a piecemeal job now, instead of waiting ten years.
I agree that every adult should have a " nice outfit", but wearing your “good clothes” for years ( if well taken care of), shouldnt give anyone but the most affected, a snit.</p>
<p>We did often dress up to go out as a family,( bearing in mind my H wears 501s virtually everwhere. The only difference is his shoes & what he wears on top.), but what we wore then, is not what i would consider being "dressed up ", now.</p>
<p>i still notice what i wear though- I hear some people saying, not only do they not notice what other people wear, they dont notice what they, themselves are wearing.</p>
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<p>I hope “professional” dress for physicians does not include ties.</p>
<p>[How</a> Clean Is Your Doctor’s Tie? - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-619496.html]How”>http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-619496.html)
[Why</a> doctors should stop wearing ties](<a href=“http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/08/doctors-stop-wearing-ties.html]Why”>http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/08/doctors-stop-wearing-ties.html)
[Infectious</a> Disease Special Edition](<a href=“http://www.idse.net/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Bacterial+Infections+%2F+MRSA&d_id=211&i=May+2011&i_id=727&a_id=17033]Infectious”>http://www.idse.net/ViewArticle.aspx?d=Bacterial+Infections+%2F+MRSA&d_id=211&i=May+2011&i_id=727&a_id=17033)
[Nothing</a> to Sneeze At: Doctors’ Neckties Seen as Flu Risk - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125859205137154753.html]Nothing”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125859205137154753.html)</p>
<p>Not too much, anymore, except in instances where there is actually little patient contact (consults, conferences, etc). Almost never in my fairly casual city.</p>
<p>This nearly 800-post thread has made an indelible impression on me. Just today, my family went from D’s 1.5 hour dance class directly to a birthday party for two of her cousins, and from there we went to a car dealer. We were away from home for 10 hours. Because she was in dance class, she wore sweats. I don’t think they were sloppy as they were brand new and had a college logo on them. With the sweats she wore a cute tank top embellished with flowers. That’s what she wore to the party, where everyone except the 4-year-old birthday girl (who was in a tutu) had on jeans and either sneakers or comfort shoes. D was welcomed with open arms and no one said a word to her about her outfit, although they did ask how her new dance class went. At the car dealer, somehow we were sold a car despite being in jeans and sneakers, at the price we wanted. The whole day, all I could think of was if there were going to be people judging us-especially D, for being offensive. I’m guessing in Seattle, they don’t. At least in our corner of it.</p>
<p>“I guess I feel that everybody is entitiled to their opinion, but that opinion should never affect the interpersonal experience and the way that people are treated.”</p>
<p>Strawman. Who said that they were going to harrumph or be rude to someone wearing sloppy clothes in public? What -do you think we are going to slam doors in their faces or stick out our feet to trip them? Sounds like you just made that up.</p>
<p>“That’s what she wore to the party, where everyone except the 4-year-old birthday girl (who was in a tutu) had on jeans and either sneakers or comfort shoes. D was welcomed with open arms and no one said a word to her about her outfit, although they did ask how her new dance class went. At the car dealer, somehow we were sold a car despite being in jeans and sneakers, at the price we wanted”</p>
<p>Well, this is all kind of a duh. Who has said that wearing jeans is inappropriate for a child’s bday party or for running errands such as buying a car? Has anyone said or even suggested that a skirt and heels are necessary for these things? No. And young, very fir people can get away with more thn those of us in our forties and fifties.</p>
<p>I went up to my kid’s school this weekend for business. I took the opportunity to take out some of her friends to eat and meeting them for the first time. Guys had polar shirt on (their parents would have been proud) and girls had nice shirt on. One girl just came back from her dance class, D2 pointed her out to me as she was walking on campus, but by the time we met at the restaurant she had changed into a different outfit and her hair was down (brushed).</p>
<p>At a recent job tech recruiting event, many recruiters made a POINT of wearing a sweat shirt and jeans. They were making a statement by wearing sweats because they were emulating some successful people in the business. One of those guys had his lawyer fiancee there with him. She was wearing a black blazer, white shirt and jeans. When asked what they were doing later, he said probably going some where nice to eat, but he’ll have to change before going out. People do use clothing to fit in and to convey a message, because we do formal an opinion about people based on what they wear.</p>
<p>I also find it sexist to say that guys do not care what they wear. I’ve had men commenting on my clothing (in a nice way). I’ve heard men talking about where they buy their suits/shirts, or where they have them made at parties. I’ve heard my girlfriends saying how much longer it takes for their significant other takes in getting ready to go out. I have 2 nephews (brothers), one could get in and out of shower less than 10 min and ready to go, and another who could take up to an hour to get ready.</p>
<p>Here in VT, we dress casually. As a psychologist, I worked mostly with foster kids and their families. Didn’t wear sweats at work, but I’d wear anything in my community. Sweats, yoga pants, whatever. Decorum to me is being kind, not dressing up. I don’t care if other people think it’s about clothing, haircuts or makeup, even manicures/pedicures. I’m just not going there.</p>
<p>
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/dowd-it-goes-with-everything-even-bad-hair.html?hp&_r=0[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/opinion/sunday/dowd-it-goes-with-everything-even-bad-hair.html?hp&_r=0</a></p>
<p>When I read this column, I thought of this (can you believe it’s still going?!) thread. :)</p>
<p>Being kind and caring about clothing are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Are Fashion Design majors less kind than Psych majors?</p>
<p>I think appearance is all about respect for the culture and respect for yourself. Pizzagirl’s Tokyo sightseeing and shopping is a good example. That’s a culture built on aesthetics, and everywhere you go in the city, you’ll observe that people of all stations in life take care to maintain their appearance. Regardless of the fact she may be inclined to dress smartly anyway, PG honors the culture she finds herself in by taking care to maintain her appearance. (Have a wonderful time, PG!) Similarly apropos is oldfort’s story about her daughter’s college friend changing from her dance clothes–which were probably* fine for a walk across campus–to appropriate “dinner out” attire. That young woman knows it’s respectful to be discerning in selecting attire to meet the cultural context. </p>
<p>*The “probably fine” caveat goes directly to the OP’s question, “Is wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts appropriate and suitable on campus?” and the pajama pants variation that’s become part and parcel of this discussion. In the casual culture of a college campus, a “regular” dance outfit would be fine for walking back to the dorm. But if the young woman’s dance class had been working on a burlesque-themed production and she was costumed accordingly, I would hope she would have changed or donned a coat before walking across campus. Similarly, I think sweatpants are fine for walking across campus to/from a workout, but not for the classroom (or the grocery store). Pajamas belong in the bedroom!</p>
<p>The respect for yourself is easy. Who doesn’t feel more self-confident when they look in the mirror before dashing and know they look good? And there’s no denying that when you show respect for yourself, others will show respect for you. So if it’s casual Friday and your office culture is jeans, it’s not a license to grab a crumpled pair from the floor and throw on a t-shirt. Whether they’re $200 label or Levi’s, you make sure they’re clean, pressed and styled/sized to show yourself off to your best advantage; you select a similarly suitable shirt or blouse; and men and women alike should include a jacket or sweater to dress it up a notch in case there’s a client meeting, lunch or similar occasion. In other words, once you’ve pegged the culture, take care to maintain a clean, neat and “best foot forward” appearance. </p>
<p>[My two pennies on the table. :p]</p>
<p>TX, you’re assuming though that those of us who don’t dress “well” don’t respect ourselves. In my case, nothing could be further from the truth. My respect for myself is not tied in any way to my clothing. You can speak for your own opinions, that’s fine, but it’s far from universal. I’m more than comfortable enough with myself to frankly not care what strangers think about me or my clothing style. </p>
<p>I honestly don’t feel better when dressed up. I feel awkward and uncomfortable. And that’s ok. That’s my personal preference. Others are free to feel differently. But don’t make it seem like we’re lacking self-respect. </p>
<p>And yes, I do follow the customs and culture when I go abroad or to other places. Yes, I dress to the dress code at work. But here, sweats are more than acceptable at the grocery store or classes.</p>
<p>Yes, PG, have a wonderful trip.</p>
<p>I wear sweatpants sometimes. I wore them to class habitually in the winter because they were a lot warmer than jeans, nowadays I might wear them to the grocery store or something if I need to run out and don’t happen to already be dressed. But, I went on a date with BF friday, to visit my parents saturday, and I am going out with an old friend this afternoon. Last weekend we had lunch with BF’s mom and spent the day in town with her, then met up with his brother and brother’s gf for dinner. I dressed very nicely for those events, complete with nice make up and accessories. I dress nicely for work each morning. I don’t think not getting dressed up to go to the grocery store means that I don’t know how to dress or that I don’t respect myself… I just don’t respect the grocery store. Is that really such a big deal?</p>