<p>AW HE**! :o</p>
<p>Whew! crosspost. Nice save, Cobrat.</p>
<p>Aw, but unfortunately, that is not how cobrat often comes across. He was not offended by bay’s actions (because she doesn’t go spit on poorly dressed people), but by her feelings. He has essentially argued for days that she (and me I guess) should not feel offended or concerned by sloppy clothing.</p>
<p>But I will keep the peace.</p>
<p>We live in one of the top ten wealthiest counties in the country. Today, I visited Costco and took notes on what the women were wearing. Hoodies everywhere! Lots of jeans (not many with dark rinse) and sneakers. Only saw two pairs of flats. A fair number of cropped pants (a personal pet peeve; I don’t think they are flattering on most people), sweatpants. No PJ bottoms. No sweater sets. “Nice” tops were pullover tees with decoration.</p>
<p>Granted, the scenery would look quote different if I went to Montgomery Mall, where the denizens of Potomac and Bethesda shop at Nordstrom’s and the ilk. But that’s not my universe, no matter what my DH’s paycheck looks like. Frankly, I am not physically comfortable in skinny jeans and tailored jackets/shirts. Love the look, but I can’t stand wearing the stuff. </p>
<p>Heck, I am just thankful I am not limited to the plus size departments any more. Today, I wore yoga pants and coordinating jacket, with a pretty tshirt in my latest size, and sneakers. Dang, it felt good. Some of you would still judge me by my weight. I just felt healthy and reasonably fit. And after what I’ve been through this year, that is enough to make me smile at even the most judgmental folks.</p>
<p>“would prefer someone come through my line in a crazy cat lady sweatshirt and be NICE to me, rather than dressed in a neat, clean, cute sweater and treat me like I’m someone she wouldn’t talk to otherwise. I shop at the same three grocery stores and I have checkers who know me by sight now. They ask about my D, we talk about the football game yesterday, or we discuss the weather”</p>
<p>This is probably remnants of my east coast upbringing, but aside from pleasantries and good mornings and thank yous and you’re welcomes, I would prefer the checker focus on ringing me out as efficiently and correctly as possible. She’s a busy woman, doing her job, let her do it. Miss Manners had a great column on this about not thinking you, some slob in the checkout line, are the social equivalent of a hardworking person doing her job. I find some of the faux-chatter pretentious – because I don’t kid myself that this person wants to be my friend. She has her own friends. Just ring me out and we will be polite and courteous to one another. That’s enough for me.</p>
<p>“So, along similar lines, when I go grocery shopping and I am paying for my groceries and supporting a local business, I get to wear what I want as long as it’s decent and inoffensive.”</p>
<p>I think sweats fall into that category. I don’t think pajama pants do.</p>
<p>"Aw, but unfortunately, that is not how cobrat often comes across. He was not offended by bay’s actions (because she doesn’t go spit on poorly dressed people), but by her feelings. He has essentially argued for days that she (and me I guess) should not feel offended or concerned by sloppy clothing.</p>
<p>But I will keep the peace."</p>
<p>I know. And I can be dogmatic in my approach too. And those of us who scream, “personal freedom” at the top of our lungs are often slow to get quiet and listen. But I think I see where Bay is coming from - and I don’t really feel as harshly as I did before. I don’t know if you saw it, but there were some pretty toxic exchanges earlier on, and Bay, right along with some others of us, was not innocent in regards to throwing around a little verbal poison. People get hurt like that and get a little CRAZY - especially thse of us screaming “personal freedom” at the top of our lungs.</p>
<p>Good for you, Countingdown! That is awesome!</p>
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<p>It’s off topic, but last year, somebody keyed my car in the Montgomery Mall parking garage. Somehow, I wouldn’t have expected it to happen there. I am now embarrassed by my former assumptions about the socioeconomic level of people who would do something like that.</p>
<p>“Cute” and “little” infantilize women. They suggest that it’s preferable to be attractive, but only in a childlike way so as not to intimidate anyone. Moreover, “little” is also a judgment about weight and body build. So, if a “cute little” top is the goal, then those who do not choose to wear, or merely cannot fit in, “cute little” tops are not conforming to some cultural ideal of how a woman should look."</p>
<p>I am average height and generally average build (ok, I could lose 10 pounds) but I’m not “tiny” by any means. </p>
<p>These are expressions, much like LBD is for “little black dress” regardless of the height, weight or build of the wearer. I’m not trying to look “cute” like the Harajuku girls I’ve seen walking around here, in big bows, exaggerated eye makeup and tights. Perhaps better words would be elegant, sophisticated, classic, polished. Don’t take the “cute little” so seriously.</p>
<p>“This is probably remnants of my east coast upbringing, but aside from pleasantries and good mornings and thank yous and you’re welcomes, I would prefer the checker focus on ringing me out as efficiently and correctly as possible. She’s a busy woman, doing her job, let her do it. Miss Manners had a great column on this about not thinking you, some slob in the checkout line, are the social equivalent of a hardworking person doing her job. I find some of the faux-chatter pretentious – because I don’t kid myself that this person wants to be my friend. She has her own friends. Just ring me out and we will be polite and courteous to one another. That’s enough for me.”</p>
<p>I think there are two things at play here - one is DEFINITELY regional. I like to keep the pleasantries brief, but friendly. Here it would be rude if the checkout clerk did not smile and say hello, and thank you, etc. And some degree of polite exchange is expected. Were it not given, IT WOULD BE OFFENSIVE to most here. The other thing at play is that I AM actually “friends” with a lot of the checkout clerks in my community. I have been in this lady’s line every month at least twice a month for over 20 years…she IS my friend…she’s a familiar and friendly face, and she’s nice. I like to hear that’s she’s doing well and that her shift is over in an hour and she has a date. REALLY!</p>
<p>When we travel we notice that people don’t say “Excuse me, thank you, you’re welcome, yes ma’am, no sir, have a great day”, they don’t hold the door open for the next person or help the lady pick up the groceries that just fell out of her bag near as much as we’re used to. Home is usually what “feels right” to most people.</p>
<p>“Community standards – Where I live, people wear shorts and T-shirts, sweatpants or jeans, etc. when running errands (and sweatpants and jeans are pretty much interchangeable).”</p>
<p>I think what I’m saying, at least, is that all else being equal, I like to have standards for myself that aren’t just the community standards. After all, since we are on CC, the community standard around here is that you consider schools only within a short drive from home and wouldn’t dream of getting on a plane. Well, that’s not the standard I wanted for me and my family when we thought about colleges – my standard was a wider vista. That doesn’t make me better than anyone else, but I see no need to just always be at lowest common denominator standards either.</p>
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<p>It depends what part of LA. In lots of parts of LA sweats would be fine. In other parts, there is more fashion consciousness.</p>
<p>"I think I understand, Bay. You talked about your H wearing an old slouchy sweatshirt ad nauseum, and then making an adjustment when you brought it to his attention.</p>
<p>Kind of the same as if i wear curlers in my hair, no make up and a cotton nighty for half a day every day on the weekends around the house. That might show a disregard for my husband or a lack of respect for his feelings. Do I have it? "</p>
<p>I sympathize w Bay on this one. I know there have been times where I’ve let “working at home” slide into “too casual/unkempt.” Every work at home person has done the “1 pm and I’m still in pjs” route.</p>
<p>I also just “upgraded” what I wear to bed, since I’d gotten sloppy over just wearing old,somewhat ratty things. It was nice to go out and select some new, more flattering and attractive options.</p>
<p>So…on the original topic/question:</p>
<p>Is wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts appropriate and suitable on campus? </p>
<p>I think opinions vary. Some say, absolutely. Others say, yes, maybe, if they’re not “sloppy sweats”, and they’re worn sometimes, not every day.</p>
<p>I think most of us would agree - visit the campus, look around at what everyone else is wearing, get the overall vibe of the campus, and then make a decision on what you’re comfortable with based on those things and your comfort level, both aesthetically and physically.</p>
<p>Whew.</p>
<p>The common dress code among the well-to-do and often Ivy educated women in my community is yoga pants or athletic gear (what else would you wear to that Bikram class or to tennis at the country club you’re heading to after school drop-off?), so in some sense, where I live the higher your standard of living the lower your daily standard of dress!</p>
<p>“Expanding that to include the public street or venues where there isn’t a dress code like grocery stores for the sake of “not being offended” by someone else dressing like a “slob” is not too different from a petty tyrant being overly presumptuous by trying to impose his/her authority/matters of taste in venues/places where he/she’s not entitled”</p>
<p>Give it up, cobrat. “Petty tyrant”? No one is proposing laws here forbidding sweatpants on the street. It’s your usual exaggeration that people who have opinions are “pushy” and that it’s just oh so very painful if you aren’t “regarded” the right way. I have never seen a poster care so much about what everyone else thinks. If you’re comfortable with how you dress and you’re not indecent or anything, what should you care what Bay thinks if she’s the proverbial stranger in a grocery store? </p>
<p>Even if Bay were to think internally, “that person should really step it up a notch,” what difference should that make to you? None. I mean, I don’t delude myself that cat-lady-sweatshirt-wearers are waiting with bated breath to hear what I think of their wardrobe choices. They’re not. I’m entitled to think quietly to myself, too bad, she’d be more attractive if she did something with herself and they’re entitled to think, too darn bad, I’m dressing like this for my own reasons, go pound salt if you don’t like it. </p>
<p>No one is obligated to change her opinion just because you find it emotionally unbearable when other people have different opinions from yours. you are allowed to have opinions that conflict with others. Try being secure in your own opinions one day instead of fretting about “how you’ll be regarded.”</p>
<p>Yes, I see plenty of women out in yoga pants and in what I identify as being closer to a track suit. I envision sweat pants as something different and I don’t see as many people wearing those.</p>
<p>Ease up, Pizzagirl! Geez. </p>
<p>Cobrat was just having a moment. We all got nice after that. :)</p>
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<p>It’s not about being insecure so much as to convey how attitudes such as yours tends to be perceived by those who don’t share those perspectives…and how such perceptions are reasons why those holding them make such good stock characters in comedies…especially those dealing with social class attitudes. </p>
<p>To some extent…this thread revealed that there are real-life Hyacinth Buckets(pronounced Bouquet as she’d incessantly likes to put it) from the Britcom “Keeping Up Appearances”. :D</p>
<p>Cobrat, let’s play a little game here. We’re standing in a grocery store. You’re wearing extremely sloppy clothing, pajama pants, whatever. You’re not indecent, just grubby. Let’s further stipulate that this is how you chose to dress, and wasn’t related to just having done a shift of manual labor. </p>
<p>I’m next to you in line. I’m wearing a polished outfit. Maybe I’m on my way to see a client. Maybe I’m not, but I wanted to wear something nice today. Whatever.</p>
<p>How would you discern whether inside, I was a) not noticing you one way or the other, b) noticing you and thinking, dude, step it up? Remember, I’m normal, so I’m not going around commenting on other people’s clothing. </p>
<p>You seem to look at people a lots–especially those dressed in upper middle class looks --and assume their inner workings. And then take offense at them.</p>
<p>You tend to convict people of attitudes even before they commit the crime. Why is that? What is there about “upper middle class signals” that bother you so much that any sign of them causes you to jump to such over the top expressions of “entitled,” “petty tyrant” and so forth?</p>
<p>And let’s say I was inwardly thinking b. Why should that matter to you in the least?</p>