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<p>I think they had exactly you in mind when they chose that clothing.</p>
<p>1060^^one of my nieces has all my cool stuff from the '70s. :)</p>
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<p>another way to think about this</p>
<p>My mother set the table every night with silver flatware and cloth napkins. This was the only norm I knew growing up. My sister married a man whose mother used stainless and paper napkins. He thought my mother’s table pretentious. He has very strong opinions about this. My sister set the table one way when our parents visited and another way when his parents visited. Both sets of parents considered their table the norm and would have been offended to be served incorrectly.</p>
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<p>edit: hey catera! Did you have any of those Norma Kamali sweatsuit material clothes? 
My mother made mine based on a vogue photo, if I remember correctly.</p>
<p>edit II: oh noooo - a quick search reveals the norma kamli sweatshirt dress is at walmart these days. :(:(</p>
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<p>Yes, I always try to dress with others in mind. </p>
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<p>You are probably right, but I prefer to live under the (apparent delusion) that most people do try to be kind.</p>
<p>alh-my mother used stainless, but always cloth napkins and always nice matching dishes (though with 5 kids and 2 Great Danes, we did have to make a number of replacements). Silver, china and the like were reserved for holiday dinners. I was stunned when I learned that H’s family, for holidays, uses paper plates like Chinet, paper napkins and plastic cutlery. I could have assumed that they are uncultured, as I’m sure some people would think (not unlike this whole clothing debate), but when I asked why, I learned that their mother who worked her entire life as “the help”, had no intention of having to spend her holidays too in the kitchen cleaning up. Also, their father sometimes had to work one of his two or three jobs on most holidays and grabbing a paper plate of food to bring with him was the only dinner he got. After that the paper plates didn’t bother me as much. If I want to set a fancy table, I do it for our own little family.</p>
<p>I hope you understood I wasn’t judging anyone’s table settings… rather pointing out another instance where the rules are really very arbitrary though we might take them for granted depending on our upbringing.</p>
<p>I have extremely cultured friends, raised with silver and cloth, with inherited sets of 19th c silver and export porcelain, who dine on paper and plastic because …
okay I won’t speculate ;)</p>
<p>edit: it may or may not be a political statement (okay I did speculate just a little)</p>
<p>I had sworn off posting on this thread, but since I was mentioned, I can’t resist;</p>
<p>“And then I think Shrinkrap raised the point that if professors do care, it is probably too late to dress nicer when asking for letters of recommendation.”</p>
<p>"Even on more mainstream campuses, most Profs care much more about how well one performed in class academically, behavior/attitudes in class/office hours, intellectual capability, and how well the student communicates verbally and in writing. "</p>
<p>That all makes perfect sense, and if you are looking good in all those areas, you could probably wear whatever you want and get all the letters you want, and maybe all the jobs. But given my own personal, anecdotal observations, I wonder if the kids who have all that going for them, are likely to wear sweats everyday (not talking about not “dressing up”). And I wonder if the kids who wear sweats everyday (not talking about not “dressing up”, I’m talking about wearing sweats every day ) are more likely to be falling short in one or more of those areas. Then, the sweats just add to it.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap: that is really interesting. The kids I know who wore sweats had everything going for them (prestigious awards, editor of campus mags, Phi Beta Kappa) and the sweats were a total pose imho. Like the child on page one of this thread rolling out of bed without combing her hair. I imagine there were enough occasions where these students dressed “business casual” that the professors understood these students understood what to wear when it mattered.</p>
<p>I am still really troubled by oldfort’s description of the negative consequences of not knowing what to wear when it matters. And I can’t find any reply to your query to Wis way back last week.</p>
<p>edit: shrinkrap #524, 579 - my favorite posts on the thread</p>
<p>There are so many ways to think about this subject. One way is to feel angry or resentful at those who “judge”, and to aspire to be a better person by not indulging in that yourself. I found myself thinking not about what I don’t like about people who “judge” ( i might say “observe”), but rather how I can take advantage of it, to get more of what I want out of MY life. I feel it is a luxury for me to be able to entertain that thought, but I can see how others might see it as an unhelpful way of thinking. I think this might be a theme on CC; one man’s food is another woman’s poison.</p>
<p>alh-no, not at all. I was just recounting my own experience with drastically different table settings. :)</p>
<p>"edit: shrinkrap #524, 579 - my favorite posts on the thread "</p>
<p>Well, thanks! Didn’t see that till after my last post.</p>
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<p>No. I didn’t have any of those. I was ahead of my time since I wore Redwing work boots. Now they are the rage and cost hundreds.</p>
<p>Justin cowgirl boots - 1972-74, with ankle length peasant skirts. And sometimes a matching hat.</p>
<h1>1068 Judging those who judge is judgmental, no doubt. 
It is absolutely a luxury to have enough status in society to dress however you please without fear of negative repercussions. It seems to me many young people are disadvantaged, and sometimes harmed by incorrect assumptions based on their clothing and/or appearance. That is why the whole thread is interesting to me.</h1>
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<p>Nothing like the conformity at non-conformist Oberlin!</p>
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<p>Social groups who find things “hoity toity and snooty” are usually revealing their own insecurities, IMO. I’d rather be in a social group that isn’t intimidated by others.</p>
<p>never mind never mind nevermindnervermind</p>
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<p>One could say the same thing about folks who judge others…especially openly about slobby, sloppy, grubby, or other negative adjectives to describe those who dress beneath their subjective standards. :D</p>
<p>As it happens, my students in one of my classes are doing an activity this week called “Makeover Day.” They are asked to figure out what their normal style of clothing is and then dress as opposite as possible for 24 hours - the sloppy sweatshirt crowd dresses up and the dressy types go around rumpled and super casual. When I’ve done this in the past, the class has reported that - even more than the change they notice from other people - the change in their own attitudes is the most noticeable. The newly dressed up students feel more professional and actually find themselves sitting up straighter and paying more attention in class. The newly sloppy are mostly embarrassed and tend to scurry back to their rooms as quickly as possible.</p>
<p>^^ fascinating. And what Stacy and Clinton have been trying to tell us for years.</p>
<p>I live in fear of and yet secretly hope for the day when I get called to a meeting and am surprised by a group of my best friends, family members and colleagues gathered together to watch video footage showing my schlumpy behind in scruffy “yoga” pants as I’m silently waiting in line at Whole Foods.</p>
<p>When I notice others in pajamas or sloppy sweats in public, I do not judge them as “beneath me.” I judge them as looking inappropriate, as unpossessing of an awareness of etiquette, as possibly inconsiderate or lazy, if the attire is constant day in and day out. It has nothing to do with status. It has to do with basic courtesy. I judge them the same as I judge people who let the swinging door slam behind them in others’ faces, who don’t say “thank you” when I hold the door for them, or who walk by an elderly woman who just dropped her purse and they don’t offer to pick it up.</p>
<p>Of course my opinion of them can change when I get to know them. Just as can happen in reverse.</p>