Israel-I think they have every right

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<p>BY THE WAY, if any of you want an interesting read on arab propoganda, here is something sort of comical in some way. I am going to post the article which talks about a picture of an arab teenager bleeding from the face rite after being beaten by an israeli policemen with a nite stick. The israeli policeman is hovering on top of him waving the stick ready to bludgeon the teen again. Here is the article that goes with it. </p>

<p>BUT BEFORE YOU READ IT LOOK AT THE PICTURE- you will all appreciate this </p>

<p><a href="http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/The_Photo_that_Started_it_All.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>On September 30, 2000, The New York Times, Associated Press and other major media outlets published a photo of a young man -- bloodied and battered -- crouching beneath a club-wielding Israeli policeman. The caption identified him as a Palestinian victim of the recent riots -- with the clear implication that the Israeli soldier is the one who beat him.</p>

<p>The victim's true identity was revealed when Dr. Aaron Grossman of Chicago sent the following letter to the Times:</p>

<p>Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.</p>

<p>That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob.</p>

<p>In response, the New York Times published a half-hearted correction which identified Tuvia Grossman as "an American student in Israel" -- not as a Jew who was beaten by Arabs. The "correction" also noted that "Mr. Grossman was wounded" in "Jerusalem's Old City" -- although the beating actually occurred in the Arab neighborhood of Wadi al Joz, not in the Old City.</p>

<p>In response to public outrage at the original error and the inadequate correction, The New York Times reprinted Tuvia Grossman's picture -- this time with the proper caption -- along with a full article detailing his near-lynching at the hands of Palestinians rioters.</p>

<p>Read Tuvia Grossman's in-depth, first-person account of his ordeal, entitled Victim of the Media War. <a href="http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The photo of a bloodied Tuvia Grossman became a symbol in the struggle to ensure that Israel receives the fair media coverage that every nation deserves.</p>

<p>In April 2002, a District Court in Paris ordered the French daily newspaper "Liberation" and the Associated Press to pay damages to Grossman in the amount of 4,500 Euro. </p>

<p>The Court condemned the Associated Press for "mispresenting [Grossman] as a member of the Palestinian community," while the court censured "Liberation" for "publishing the litigious picture with a comment edited the same faulty way, giving the picture a meaning and a scope it could not have." </p>

<p>===== ARAB ABUSE =====
Even more remarkable is that Arab groups have adopted Grossman's photo to use in their own propaganda campaigns, cynically using a bloodied Jew as a symbol of the Palestinian struggle. </p>

<p>An official Egyptian government website is using the Grossman photo on its "Photo Gallery". </p>

<p>And the Palestinian Information Center, <a href="http://www.islam.net%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.islam.net&lt;/a>, incorporated Tuvia's photo onto its homepage banner, (The graphic was recently removed from the site, but is reprinted here:)</p>

<p>Additionally, some Arab groups have called for a boycott of Coca-Cola, for doing business with Israel, and have circulated a series of posters to state their case. One poster shows Grossman's bleeding face juxtaposed with the Coca-Cola logo, and the tag line: "By supporting American products, you're supporting Israel." </p>

<p>Snopes.com reports that, ironically, since Ramallah is home to a Coca-Cola bottling facility that employs about 400 local residents (and indirectly creates employment for hundreds more), and Coca-Cola industries throughout the Middle East are operated as local businesses, any boycott of Coca-Cola in Middle Eastern countries is likely to cause more monetary harm to Arabs and Palestinians than it is to Americans or Israelis. </p>

<p>Snopes.com notes another irony: Pepsi is also on the Arab boycott list, with claims that the name "Pepsi" is an acronym for 'Pay Every Penny to Save Israel' or 'Pay Every Penny to the State of Israel.' As the Associated Press once noted, "Calling Pepsi a 'Jewish product' is ironic, given that Pepsi was one of many multinationals that wouldn't do business in Israel during the 40-year Arab commercial boycott of the Jewish state." </p>

<p>And of course the biggest irony of all is that the image chosen in the poster to represent Palestinian suffering was that of none other than Tuvia Grossman, who was nearly beaten to death by a Palestinian mob. </p>

<p>Click here to see the Grossman poster.</p>

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<p>Ski, we can all come up with errors and abuses of the system. It doesn't mean that attoricities occur from both sides in copious amounts. Pointing fingers is pointless. Going forward, Israel must decide whether it wants peace or not. If Israel wants peace, it is going to have to sacrifice a great deal to get it.</p>

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<p>you are right on the nail for that. Both sides will have to sacrifice for peace. Israel has already made some sort of peace with jordan and egypt, and in 2000 and 2005 israel made strides for peace and statehood with the palestinian arabs. Israel is really the only country or government that has ever worked to create a country for palestinian arabs. The jordanians never did it either did the egyptians. When it comes to palestinian arabs the ball is in their court after the expulsion of jews from gaza. It was one of the most painful things the jews ever had to do and so far it has failed, but hopefully with time things will change. When it comes to Hezbullah and Hamas the only things that will change this conflict is all out war. In ythe 80's israel nocked out 15,000 PLO into other countries and arafat to tunisia. Had rabin never brought back that terrorist arafat from his hole in africa alot may have been avoided. But now israel needs to destroy hezbulla and destroy hamas unless ofcourse they choose to disarm themselves, just like the jewish terror groups did in 48.</p>

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<p>Hezbollah will disarm once the necessary steps are taken to ensure that Lebanon will never again be invaded. I suspect this new UN resolution will handle that. I hope that a strong international force, led primarily by French, Chinese and Russian soliders, will be depolyed on the Lebanese side of the Lebanese-Israel border. In order for that force to be effective, it has to be at least 20,000 strong, be well equipped, cannot include a US or British contigent and must have the authority to crush any Lebanese or Israeli force that breaks the ceasefire, and that includes Israeli planes flying over Lebanese aerospace. </p>

<p>Israel and Jordan are the only two countries that have a responsibility and obligation to Palestinians. Lebanon and Egypt can help those Palestinians who wis to remain in those countries, but the onus is on Israel and Jordan. Neither of those two countries have done much to help the Palestinians, but at least in Jordan, over 50% of the population is Palestinian, so they have some clout.</p>

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<p>In teresting you mention jordan and the palestinians. In 1970's jordan massacred their palestinian population and kicked out the PLO into lebanon. Hezbullahs disarmament does not have much to do with israel being in lebanon. They had 6 yrs to disarm and they refused to do so becasue their goal is israels destruction. An int'l force would be good, but usually it comes out only to hurt Israel because it ignores and fails to report israels enemies movements, like in the case of UNFIL and the UN hiding tapes and evidence that woould provide insight to the kidnapping of israeli soldiers. Israel can never trust communist china on its borders it would be ludicrous to do so. I think NATO force would be the most effective.</p>

<p>And by the way reuters photographer was caught doctoring a photo of beirut to make isral look bad, this same photogropher took many pictures of qana whose authenticity some people questioned.</p>

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<p>Ski, I do not rely on Reuters to know what Israel has done to my country. I rely on my relatives who live there.</p>

<p>A NATO force would be fine, but there can be no US or UK troops. Just as Israel wouldn't trust China (I have no idea why since China never did anything to Israel), Lebanon does not trust the UK and the US. </p>

<p>Hezbollah's goal is not the descturction of Israel. Hezbollah was founded to free Lebanon from its territories. Today, it is merely exacting revenge in Isreal for the years of occupation. But I think that Hezbollah realizes that it cannot go on commiting such ruthless acts without hurting Lebanon. This first UN draft is promissing. It only speaks of what Lebanon must do and doesn't dictate to Israel, but it is a good first step. The second step is to also dictate to Israel some terms such as the release of some prisoners and more importantly, the complete cessation of Israeli flights over Lebanese soil.</p>

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<p>It is in Hezbullahs charter to destroy israel. They often talk about it. They have sent attacks into israel since 2000. They perpetrated suicide bombings deep inside israel, in places like Tel Aviv and J'lem. The only reason israel has to fly reconossance missions over south lebanon is because of hezbullahs armament. What do you expect israel to do when after its pullout from lebanon hezbullah continued to kill and kidnapp soldiers. It continued to shoot rockets at vacationers in the gallilee. What do you expect israel to do when it recieve arms shipments from syria and iran and the UNFIL, who is charged with monitoring, reporting, and stopping such activity sat by idly while jews were once again kidnapped bc they were jews. Hezbullah will never just voluntarily disarm. They have nothing to lose. If israel kicked out 15,000 PLO then the country that defeted 3 arab nations in 6 days while vastly outnumbereed will be able to handle 2000 hezbullah terrorists.</p>

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<p>Let us face it Ski, Israel wronged the Shi'ites of Lebanon. That is why Hezbollah was created. Israel should maybe act appropriately and genuinely appologize to the Southern Lebanese whom they occupied and shamed for many years. But to say that Hezbollah's charter is the destruction of Israel is laughably simplistic. Do you think the Lebanese so pathetic that we would expend any time to such a useless mission? I think the Lebanese have far greater business to attend to than the existance of a neighboring state.</p>

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<p>First off you mistake lebanon for hezbullah. Hezbullah is a terrorist orginization that along with syria has hijacked lebanon from its leaders. Hezbullah assisnated the elected prime minister of lebanon after the civil war, hezbulla puts lebanese peopple in danger by shooting from neighborhoods. They place their offices, hq, tunnels, bunkers in civillian areas. That is a fact depsite what your relative tell you. When you say israel wronged lebanon its very misleading israel in the 80' had a choice do we let jews die and ultimately bring about the end of israel or do we invade lebanon and put an end to the murders. Israel always has tried to make peace. Had the PLO not been in lebanon israel would never enter, had hezbullah not kidnapped soldiers nad fired rockets for no reason, israel wold not be in lebanon rite now. Also why do you underestimate hezbullahs goal of israel's destruction. Maybe the lebanese do not want it, i dont no, but the 2000 memebes of hezbulla in lebanon sure as hell do. Along with their cells in judea, shomrom. Nasrallah often speaks of it. Hezbullah mission of kicking israel out of lebanon ended 6 yrs ago and for 6 yrs the world has witnessed its real mission, the destruction of israel.</p>

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<p>This really is a sad situation and I've tried to look at it from all sides, but my conclusion is that massive force by Israel is the the only answer ... tragic as the whole thing is. And I leave you with some Dylan lyrics ...
[quote]
Neighborhood Bully</p>

<p>Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.</p>

<p>What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>It looks like Reuters has taken Hezbollah's side. Doctoring photos to help turn opinion against Israel. <a href="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>its amazing their phot editor did allowed that photo to be printed. You have to be a moron to think it looks completely normal</p>

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<p>"Also as the jewish population rose so did the health figures among arabs. Infant mortality dropped because of the health care that the jews provided in the region. Many arabs began to move to the area because of the mployment and better lifestly around the jews. Many arab village leaders were offered help by jewish agricultural enginneers. Those areas that accepted some much imporved lifestyle."</p>

<p>This is because the Jews had the money to improve the land and the area, which is why obviously some arabs would try to use it. The Jews recieved a lot of money from Jewish donations from America, from the international Rothschild banking family which practically founded Israel and created its infrustructure, and these days 5 billiion from the US annully.</p>

<p>When they first went to the Palestinian area, they were already recieving money, while the Arabs there were dirt poor because of British rule. You claim that before the Jews went there the land was empty, and since the Jews built it up from there it is there land, but like I said, its because they had the money to do so, and the Ottomans never bothered to fix up the land. </p>

<p>And regardless of what that individual photographer did for Reuters, the number of Lebanese dead are enoiugh to portray the picture of what is happening there.</p>

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<p>Yes you are right the number of dead Lebanese proves exactly what is going on there. That Hezbullah is using these civillians as a base of their operations. So the Jews had money. Also the Jews were being slaughtered in every European country before WWII and before WWI. They could have strapped dynamite on thier bodies and walked around blowing things up. Also Syrian landlords owned much of the land in what is now Israel and they were very rich, but they never did anything to develop it. And because Jews had money and were able to use it effectively they are to be blamed for it. Arab countries get billions in aid. It totals up to more than what Israel recieves even thought the US gives Israel the most from its pockets. The arabs always squander the money. And Israel recieving money was not always the case. In the 40's, 50's, 60' America gave barely any aid to Israel they once even boycotted the sale of arms to them. Israel recieved what they did from underground checzh weaponeries and from France.</p>

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<p>How am I not surprised that Reuters was behind that doctored photo...shows what extreme political agendas and political correctness can do. Frankly, I've seen high school students do far better photoshop jobs than that.</p>

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<p>Don't feel too bad for the photographer who doctored the photos though, guys -- he can always find a job with CBS :-p</p>

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<p>personally believe that Israel does have a right to exist and the Jewish people do have the right to live and prosper in their own nation. However, what's bugging me and the rest of the world right now are the excessive aggressions and armed retaliations made by the Israeli military. No matter what excuse they have (self-defence, security, whatever), no one could possess the liberty to hurt innocent civilians, deliberately or by accident. </p>

<p>Under such a circumstance, I think both sides- the Arab world and Israel/western nations- should be more tolerant about each other. On going violence would only escalate the tension and hatred between the two groups. Tolerance is the key factor to maintaining peace and perhaps even friendship, maybe in the future. In the mean time, Israel should act in a more responsible, rational manner. It should respect decisions made by internationally recognized organizations like the UN, and Secretary General Kofi Annan yesterday clearly indicated his stance- immediate ceasefire. Once again, only tolerance and a WILLINGNESS to cooperate will be able to bring permanent stability to the region.</p>

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<p>Does anyone watch BBC World Service? I think it's one of the news networks that presents a "fairly objective" report on world news. Its reports are also spread quite evenly throughout the world, unlike CNN or other American news agencies that report just "exclusively" on three things: domestic affairs, War on Terror, and Middle East Crisis (as if these were the only things world-wide that are worthwhile putting TV)</p>

<p>Oh I also have question about SAT books:
Is there any difference between the 10 Reals SATs 1997 Edition and the one published in 2003? I have the 1997 edition, but I am kind of wary that it might be a bit out-of-date. Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>good post jimmy</p>

<p>"Yes you are right the number of dead Lebanese proves exactly what is going on there. That Hezbullah is using these civillians as a base of their operations"</p>

<p>OMG, your ignorance and stupidity amazes me. Alexandre has told you that his family says there were no Hezbollah when civilian houses were bombed near them. I have given you human rights watch reports that have said Hezbollah doesnt use civilian shields. </p>

<p>Now please, I know this is hard for you, but think for a minute. Hezbollah recruits from the populace. If it has ever usen civilians, it wouldnt get any more members. The militant wing does not collaborate with civilians or use civilian shields. And honestly, waht civilian would agree to it. If hezbollah came and pakred thier launchers next to the civilians, wouldnt the civilians just MOVE. DUH!!! ISRAEL claims that Hezbollah uses civilian shields, its a little something called propaganda. IN ALMOST EVERY CASE WHERE CIVILIANS WERE FOUND DEAD, THERE WERE NO ROCKET LAUNCHERS OR ANY WEAPONS WHATSOEVER, OR ELSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PLASTERED ALL OVER THE NEWS AND THERE WOULD BE PICTURES. CIVILIANS IN LEBANON ARE SAYING THAT HEZBOLAH DOES NOT USE THEM AS SHIELDS. </p>

<p>Now tell me, who are you going to believe, the Israeli Defence Force, or a civilian living in Beirut who witnesses bombings everyday.</p>

<p>Geez Ski.</p>

<p>"So the Jews had money. Also the Jews were being slaughtered in every European country before WWII and before WWI."</p>

<p>My point in mentioning that was because you implied that the Jews deserve that land because they fixed it up. (cause they had the money)</p>

<p>AND BTW, during the middle ages and such, when Jews were being killed in Europe, believe it or not, it was the Muslims who let them come to live in there land in Peace. And it was the European countries who followed the Roman Catholic church who used to prosecute and kill the Jews. Go figure.</p>

<p>"Also Syrian landlords owned much of the land in what is now Israel and they were very rich, but they never did anything to develop it."</p>

<p>It was ottoman, and that is true, they never did anything, I already stated that in my previous post.</p>

<p>"And because Jews had money and were able to use it effectively they are to be blamed for it. Arab countries get billions in aid. It totals up to more than what Israel recieves even thought the US gives Israel the most from its pockets."</p>

<p>Who's blaming them for effectively using money? Seriously, you self pity yourself way too much, get over it. Yes arab countries get money, and many of them are really developed, but during British rule they didnt get anything first off all, and secondly, this doesnt relate to anything.</p>

<p>"And Israel recieving money was not always the case. In the 40's, 50's, 60' America gave barely any aid to Israel they once even boycotted the sale of arms to them. Israel recieved what they did from underground checzh weaponeries and from France."</p>

<p>Which is why I mentioned the Rothschild family who practically built Israel from the ground up.</p>

<p>Okay hopefully I won't post again, because really, its a rather dull debate with ski not understanding anything and posting the same propaganda over and over again that he believes and that he gets from the Israeli prime minister. That's a great source for unbiased information, it really is.</p>

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<p>BBC is a good news broadcasting company. </p>

<p>I would get a newer edition. The SAT changes over time.</p>