Those of us who can, write the check. It leads people who can’t, without significant leverage, to think that they have to also, or they’ll be short changing their child. They don’t. Cost and quality are not tightly correlated in education.
6 Likes
But a large percentage are writing the check and that helps keep this whole thing going.
1 Like
What do people think they are paying for, or is worth paying for, at colleges?
- Academic content being taught and assessed.
- Academic experience (i.e. in terms of class sizes, contact with instructors, etc.).
- Credentialing and pre-professional preparation (including the effect of prestige, status, ranking, etc., or specific credentials needed for teaching, nursing, engineering, etc., or the BA/BS degree that is commonly required by employers “just because we can”).
- Non-academic aspects of the experience (i.e. residential versus commuter college experience).
3 Likes
This!
1/2 the schools in the T10 for undergraduate engineering are public flagships.
8 Likes
Sorry, I don’t buy that paying more at a hotel gets you more (at least not now). Stay at a mid-priced chain and your room will be cleaned more frequently, and you won’t get charged for amenities that have been eliminated. A five star hotel charging a daily resort fee when the pool is still “closed for public health” reasons, there is no room service or breakfast buffet, and the gym requires signing up a week in advance for a 45 minute time slot on the stairmaster? Nowadays when you pay more you get LESS.
That’s a bit of a non sequitur as paying more got you less in education during the last two years too.
I agree- I was pointing out that equating cost and value is always a tricky metric.
1 Like
This is a terrific question! My kid has a couple of friends who will be attending school in the Netherlands. Here is what they will be getting:
-
small class sizes with rigorous academics
-
degree in 3 years (because few requirements outside of major due to IB diplomas already)
-
Universities are very well respected but not in a “exclusive designer handbag” way at all. The degree provides both skills and a credential but is not a luxury good.
-
no dorms, but lots of independent student apartments nearby. Inexpensive. No amenities except shared kitchens. But cool because students from all the universities in the city share and mingle.
-
minimal amenities: if you need a doctor you go to a doctor like any adult does. If you want a gym, you buy a membership to a gym like any adult. If you need a therapist, you hire a therapist. If you want to play sports, you join a community or club team.
-
Universities (even great ones) are not hard to get into. But if you turn out to be unable to do the work, they will kick you out.
-
all dirt cheap
-
cool city to explore.
My kid would thrive with this plan. Nothing like this in the states.
10 Likes
And the “writing the check” group includes those willing to take on $200K++ in debt so their kid can go to the college that they believe they “deserve” to go to.
2 Likes
That’s a pretty good list. Rank ordering them probably varies widely from person to person.
I’m not sure it is a “large percentage”. Most of the kids who end up going to college don’t end up going to very expensive $50k+ a year colleges. A larger percentage of kids go to an in-state public school if they go to a 4 year school. Many go to community college first and save money that way too. CC feeds the idea that everyone is going to X, Y, or Z prestigious college.
Recent pandemic era data:
Pre-pandemic data: High School Graduates That Go to College [2023] - Rates And Trends
- In the spring of 2018, about 184,264 have enrolled in four-year public schools.
- 69,418 high school graduates enrolled into four-year private non-profit colleges.
- 11,356 enrolled into four-year for-profit colleges.
- 325,242 have enrolled into two-year public colleges.
2 Likes
Sure, CC definitely feeds that notion. Meanwhile the reports of higher than ever application numbers continue. Maybe I am in a “full pay bubble” looking at everything from the perspective of how I would afford it if my kids wanted to attend a high COA college. Maybe more applicants than I think, who are applying to $50K and up colleges, qualify for financial aid or are recruited athletes or have another hook that comes with a lower price tag.
Nevertheless, there is no shortage of posts on here asking about whether $200k++ is “worth it” so there’s definitely families out there who are considering taking on those numbers, either by paying it directly or taking out loans. It’s not just on CC, but other college-centered social media as well.
My original point was that if more families said no to outrageous college costs, regardless of the alleged prestige and future success that they believe they’re paying for, then colleges would have to make price adjustments. The madness is driven by the demand.
1 Like
I definitely agree that more families need to stop getting caught up in the pressure to go to schools perceived as prestigious just for that reason alone. I mean, if they can afford it and the kid wants to and it has a great program for what they want to study then go for it, but if all those factors aren’t in play then take a step back and think about why you want to send your kid there.
Higher application numbers are up because individual students are sending out more applications, not because more students overall are applying to colleges. There are posts here on CC of kids sending out 20, 25, 50 even 70 applications. That’s a lot of applications from one student. Twenty seems to be very common when 20 years ago you’d maybe send out 5-10 applications. When I went to college I sent out 1. Only wanted to go to one college, got in, didn’t apply anywhere else.
According to the governnent’s National Center for Education Statistics the percentage of high school students overall applying to college has plateaued or gone slightly down from 2010 to 2019.
2010
3,160,000 high school grads
68.1% go to college immediately
26.7% go to 2 yr college
41.4% go to 4 yr college
2019
3,178,000 high school grads
66.2% go to college immediately
21.8% go to 2 year college
44.4% go to 4 year college
There is a ton of data on that website to wade through if you like to geek out: COE - Undergraduate Enrollment
Definitely a lot of posts here on CC asking if a high price tag is worth it, but that’s because perspective on CC is skewed. It’s not like that out in the real world. There will always be wealthy folks out there who can afford to spend as much as they like to send their kids to the colleges of their choice, but that is not the story for the majority of high school grads, nor is it the story for the majority of students who go to college.
This may have already been linked on this thread, but it’s a great read: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/08/health/parenting-pressure-college-wellness/index.html
Parents just need to keep perspective. It is a great gift if we can help our kids pay for college. We do not have to endanger our retirement to do it or saddle ourselves or our kids with massive amounts of debt. If our kids are female there is some data to suggest that they may benefit monetarily from going to a more prestigious school, but the same study suggests that is not the case for males.
1 Like
There’s also no shortage of posters out here that will blast you if you say no, even if the family says straight up that they will have to make significant financial adjustments and sacrifices to bridge the gap.
5 Likes
And no shortage of posters who will berate you if you say you can afford it with no financial difficulty.
5 Likes
IMO, it really isn’t up to anyone but the family to answer yes or no. The best we can do is make the family aware of the facts which might guide that decision. No need to endlessly hector them regarding their decision-making process.
4 Likes
I agree wholeheartedly. The problem arises when families ask “Is it worth it?” but the thread evolves to reveal that it was just really a rhetorical question looking for affirmation. People have posted that they’ll have to take a second on their house, that they’ll just have to “figure it out” for their other kids, or responds they’ll never be able to retire. I take those statements as genuine and as red flags. It’s been a trap though as too often those statements were really just hyperbole.
5 Likes
I have never heard of this, can you explain?
It’s a quality that hopes to stand out, hence the term spike, in an application.
1 Like
I thought “spikey” evolved in opposition to “well-rounded”. Someone who is really good at one thing has a spike. Many schools these days prefer a spikey kid over a well-rounded kid.
And ECs can be anything you do in your spare time, including taking care of a family member or a job, or a quirky hobby - doesn’t have to be organized.
6 Likes