@maya54 I dont see that as a problem with friend groups, in that why cant they remain after some of them rush. Once in a sorority are you not allowed to socialize with anyone outside? My D is the type that likes a broad range of friends. She is not even sure if Sorority life will be for her, but keeping an open mind.
Now to those with fall rush before school even starts. What happens if once you are “in” you figure out that these girls or guys are not for you, has anyone ever left a sorority or fraternity, and was even able to join a different one. Or you leave and thats it. Are you then shunned and can no longer be friends with anyone in that house? Just asking?
“For those schools, not unusual mind you, that do pledging before school starts or right at the beginning of the school year, how exactly does one “find the house that has the people in it that you like for who they are, not what they are” in that kind of timeframe? I’d argue it is impossible to do the process for anything other than superficial reasons.”
The same way you do research about schools in general. You look on websites/Facebook/Instagram. You find out what their charities are. You ask questions from people who attend the school. If you’re on campus, you talk to people. Every college tour we’ve been on that has a Greek presence on campus has had kids ask about Greek life. It’s not that difficult. Tri-Delts at one school are going to be different than Chi-Os at another. Yes, there are stuck-up people everywhere, and yes, there are some houses that are “exclusive.” There are also houses that never make quota and are more diverse in their memberships. And there are many, many houses in between.
I’m not arguing against the benefits of delayed rush. I said that I thought it would be better to do it second semester so that kids do get more information. I just said (and it’s true) that at many schools legacies are going to fill the majority of the spots in the most popular houses regardless of when rush is. But, the system as a whole is geared to getting bids for most kids. The ones who are disappointed are generally the kids who have their sights set on the “popular” houses, which also tend to be the ones who fill with legacies. The number of girls at my alma mater who rush and don’t receive ANY bids is actually quite low … often in single digits or low double digits out of far more than a thousand. The number who completely drop out because they were dropped by the 2 or 3 “oldest” sororities is significantly higher.
What I don’t appreciate are general sweeping comments about any population, whether we’re discussing kids who are greek, goth, punk, blonde, Polish, low-income, high-income, or honor students.
“Once in a sorority are you not allowed to socialize with anyone outside?” Yes, you are. I’m not sure why people keep saying that you can’t. It’s absolutely untrue. I wasn’t even in a sorority and I had friends in every one of them, so they definitely socialized with “outsiders.”
“What happens if once you are “in” you figure out that these girls or guys are not for you, has anyone ever left a sorority or fraternity, and was even able to join a different one.” I know someone who did. Apparently if you leave before you are initiated (which happens several weeks after bid day), you are free to join up elsewhere.
I used to believe all rushees accepting all their invitations got a bid, because that is what I was always told. That isn’t necessarily true. On a thread a few years back, someone did the math to show us how it happens.
^from a sorority blog it’s not allowed to link to, and of course I don’t know for a fact it is a true tale. This young woman reports accepting the maximum number of invitations, even though her top groups didn’t invite her back. It seems that result is very possible though from other things I’ve read. This is NOT what I was ever taught about recruitment. I couldn’t find what college she was talking about.
Greek organizations are exclusionary. They vote people in or out during rush. I was in a sorority and did not care for that part of the experience at all. Most members of my immediate and extended family for four generations have been in Greek organizations.
Over the years, on this board, I’ve advocated for a sorority lottery system. I continue to think it a genius idea, though of course it won’t ever happen.
“Over the years, on this board, I’ve advocated for a sorority lottery system. I continue to think it a genius idea, though of course it won’t ever happen.”
If greek life was mainly about all those reasons people like to tout - philanthropy, lifelong friends and connections, etc - than why not do the lottery? But it’s not. A very large portion of the appeal is about that exclusion, hence why many drop when they don’t get the bids they want.
I remember this thread from years ago. http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/tufts-university/1188443-fraternity-reputations-at-tufts.html (Note CC doesn’t allow “stereotyping” any more so they closed down similar more recent threads.) Just the general tone of it made me feel ill. For what it’s worth Tufts does not have a big Greek presence. And visiting on a weekend it was easy to tell where they were because the grounds were littered with red cups and other trash. Charming.
When we did a book thread on “Paying for the Party”, we discussed the sorority system at Indiana. It doesn’t have room for everyone wanting to join. Girls and their parents know this going in. We found and read some of a message board about the process where lots of parents were posting. Many had no problem with the idea of some left out, until it was their own daughter. You could follow the posts over several months, before and after rush, and it was fascinating.
Do some people really think Greeks are the only ones who party? Really?? Red solo cups means a presence of Greek life? Doesn’t jive with reality in this neck of the world. Enough said.
Regarding the 11 Princeton eating clubs, it looks like 6 are selective in the “bicker” process, 1 is selective by participation points, and 4 are non-selective “sign in”, with lottery if there are more applicants than space. Perhaps a Princeton student or alum may be able to common on how they affect the social scene, in terms of whether there is a perceived social hierarchy between the selective and lottery clubs, and those students who choose not to join any of them.
“If greek life was mainly about all those reasons people like to tout - philanthropy, lifelong friends and connections, etc - than why not do the lottery? But it’s not. A very large portion of the appeal is about that exclusion, hence why many drop when they don’t get the bids they want.”
Lifelong friends - people need to find their tribe. With enough similarities to be connected, but enough diversity as well. My sorority was very diverse. And guess what? I didn’t like everyone in it so they wouldn’t be my lifelong friends. But we worked together on philanthropies.
While I know that some schools - especially a few in the South - are exclusive - many, many others are not. At every school there are the “popular” sororities to get into, and that is very tough on a lot of students. Did I get into a “top” house? No I did not, and am still alive today. Do I love the Greek system for what it gave me? I sure did-top house or not. We aren’t in high school anymore.
“@maya54 I dont see that as a problem with friend groups, in that why cant they remain after some of them rush. Once in a sorority are you not allowed to socialize with anyone outside? My D is the type that likes a broad range of friends. She is not even sure if Sorority life will be for her, but keeping an open mind.”
The CAN but they DONT ( at least that is the case in a very large percent of cases) This doesn’t mean individuals don’t remain friends. But the group is often mightily disrupted. I track college issues for our High School. Kids report more dissatisfaction with spring Rush than Fall. This is especially true at Indiana one of the most selective midwest schools with respect to Greek life. Even girls who did really well during rush found it hard to see the close friends they develop first semester not get into their sorority. Even if they chose to remain friends the time commitments between school and Greek life left much less time for their other friends. If 5 girls have formed a nice friend group first semester and they all end up in different sororities then they simply find it too hard to remain a group given that each has different dates and times for Greek life commitment even though they may end up still seeing and socializing the girls in the group individually. That “squad” has ended and many girls find it to be a difficult situation second semester.
This is not to say there aren’t issues with Fall rush. But the above is the reason why every school doesn’t just say “hey spring rush is fantastic let’s do that”
Sounds like Indiana specifically seems to combine a lot of the undesirable characteristics of sororities in terms of exclusivity and monopolizing the member’s social contacts. But are these undesirable characteristics universal across all campuses and chapters?
If not, then wouldn’t the apparent disadvantages of spring rush not be present on a campus and in chapters that do not have these undesirable characteristics? I.e. if spring rush is undesirable for this reason, wouldn’t the campus’ sorority system overall be undesirable?
@ucbalumnus. As I said the kids we talk to at our HS ( there’s an event for alumni and survey the week of Thanksgiving so we don’t really get spring rush feed back til sophomore year ) have by a vast majority reported more satisfaction with fall rushthan spring rush and many of the spring rush kids told us, "I thought I would love a spring rush but really I hated it I wish we done it in the fall it would’ve been better overall ". We talk to the kids going through admissions too and there is A decided preference for spring rush for the reasons you said. But the reality reality doesn’t seem to match the expectation. By the way we had a few kids last year who went to LAC’s with no Greek life but a heavy acappella group presence who report that late fall acappella additions and membership caused the same disruption to their friend groups.
LOL. Amherst does. There are six, maybe more by now. I’ve never gotten the impression that the time commitment precludes hanging out with non-singing friends though.
Is this a comparison between students at the same school who do fall versus spring rush, or between students at different schools where most rush occurs in fall versus spring?
The other thing is that if sorority or fraternity membership tends to exclude other social contact, that can be a significant disadvantage for a student who wants to socialize widely. Of course, a student at most campuses can choose not to join, but some may want to join but still not be limited in wider socialization outside the chapter, and a few campuses have such high participation that they dominate the social scene.