<p>Along with a nice little collection of rejection and waitlist letters, my son was fortunate to receive several great acceptances for trumpet performance, including his top choices of Indiana and Eastman. Both schools offered decent financial aid packages, have good trumpet teachers, lots of ensemble opportunities, and nice cold winters!</p>
<p>S is currently agonizing over the decision between stand-alone conservatory environment at Eastman and rah rah Big Ten campus environment at IU. His agony is made worse by my serious warnings to choose the place he is most likely to be happy for 4 years because just the thought of going through auditions again to transfer makes me cringe. Other than that, we're having a hard time offering parental advice. H and I really enjoyed our rah rah college time but worry about too many distractions from the serious focus on music. Both environments have pros and cons, but it appears to be mainly a quality of life type difference, with equally good music education at either school.</p>
<p>Now seems like a good time to thank all of you wise and generous CC music folks for so much great information and guidance along the way. I'm really too tired to come up with any specific questions right now, but if anyone wants one last chance to offer some advice or encouragement on S's college selection, I'm all ears. Soon I will be posting about twin X long sheets and dining plan options!</p>
<p>What great choices. I would vote for Indiana, but I am biased. I think the music students get very involved in the music school pretty quickly, and manage to deal with the distractions of the Big Ten U. To me, the great campus life and mix of kids is a plus rather than a negative. D did not even apply to Eastman for that very reason. (she is at Rice, but was accepted to IU)</p>
<p>DS is at Boston University. If I had been making the choice, he would be at New England Conservatory. Both Indiana and Eastman are terrific schools. My son did not apply to Eastman because he heard that the trumpet studio was not collegial but rather was very competitive. That was several years ago and times change. Personally, I don't think you could go wrong at either school as a performance major.</p>
<p>Both schools are excellent. I am a bit biased since my son is a trumpet performance major at Indiana and loves it there. He did find the party atmosphere distracting ( and inviting) at first, but it didn't take him long to really get into music and decide that he loved it much more than parties. The trumpet players seem to be pretty close there--or maybe it just that my son is outgoing and has made sure to get to know the more advanced students so he can learn from them.</p>
<p>On the other hand, perhaps I should steer you toward Eastman. That way your son won't be competing against mine for orchestra spots... :) (just kidding, of course)</p>
<p>I have never been a rah-rah person. One year at a big Ten, State U was enough and I could not transfer out soon enough. I suppose the choice comes down to goals, fit and perspective. I wish my D had applied to Indiana so I knew more. It must be quite a place. She did have Michigan on the list for a brief time, but when I suggested considering Indiana, I might as well have suggested Wyoming or North Dakota. Perhaps it is just my east coast perspective, but I have a hard time believing that Indiana comes close to Eastman. I think Eastman is just a notch below Curtis and Juilliard. Even so Eastman is not always a good choice. It has a level of commitment, intensity and stress that can make it a poor fit for some students. The stress factor seemed evident at audition time, but auditions are already stressful. My D felt the stress even while attending a summer program. She has several friends at Eastman. Most thrive. Some hate it. One had enough and left. I don't think the weather is much of a factor. Most of the kids at Eastman seem to live in a pretty small world with the exposure limited to 100 yards between buildings. Due to underground tunnels, there is limited necessity to be outdoors at the UR River Campus. </p>
<p>I would not think it would be too difficult to make a choice based on the culture and fit. Sometimes a different type of environment can lead to growth, but there is also the risk of not adapting.</p>
<p>edad- Indiana is a conservatory level music school and is every bit as strong as Eastman. In some areas, it is actually stronger than the top conservatories. I know it is hard to understand this since it is within the setting of a Big Ten university, but it is absolutely the pinnacle. It is a large program, which makes it different than the more stand-alone conservatories.</p>
<p>Indiana not only claims to be the top music school in the country in many ways and for many instruments it is better than the big name conservatories like Eastman or Julliard. Neither Eastman or Indiana is top drawer for flute at the moment, but for the most part Indiana may very well be the number one music conservatory in the US.</p>
<p>There is a great deal to be said for being in a major market instead of the middle of Indiana, but there are also pluses. It really seems to come down to who is currently teaching. In many listings of top schools, Indiana, Rice and even Michigan often beat out the name conservatories like Peabody, Eastman, NEC, etc.</p>
<p>I would guess the economy of scale allows those schools to spend what it takes in facilities and facutly.</p>
<p>Indiana is a big opera school, and the instrumentalists do a lot of "service" playing for the productions. Eastman requires less of that, one would guess. Would this be a factor? [It is why CCM has not developed a strong string program.]</p>
<p>My son attends Eastman and has really enjoyed his experience there. He LOVES his teacher, which is a big part of it. His studio has been very collegial and the 5 other cellists that started with him are kind of like siblings. They don't always hang out together but they are very supportive of one another. He has found students to be more competitive with themselves rather than with each other. Personally, I think the decision should come down to who your son would most like to study with if he has a sense of that.</p>
<p>I do know that my son at times got sick of being around music majors all the time. He found he had a psychological need to take at least one class each semester at the river campus. But he also enjoyed the being surrounded by the incredible skill of all those other musicians who spurred him on to be better than he ever thought he could be. (My guess is that that feeling can be found at Indiana as well.) The only thing negative I have heard about Indiana was from a trumpet player from our area who found the school too big and that he felt like he was just another cog in the wheel. I don't know if his experience is unique to him or others have felt that way as well. But it is a top notch school and can certainly be ranked right up there with the best of them.</p>
<p>mommab:
Wow! All kids should have such tough decisions to make! :)</p>
<p>All I can say is if he LOVES music he'll love Eastman. 'Nuff said.</p>
<p>PS I hate to disagree with people on here, but I just don't think you can call Indiana a better music conservatory than Eastman or Peabody, NEC. It is a great school for music, but the smaller more intense conservatory experience is just different.</p>
<p>I would second the info about size of school and size of studio-probably more in just sheer numbers of trumpet majors at Indiana. Eastman will have a smaller, more intimate studio. They probably have the same number of trumpet majors at the whole conservatory that Indiana has in its freshman class. Of course there are probably more performance opportunities at Indiana as well.</p>
<p>I don't know if that is really true about performance opportunities. My son has performed quite a bit at Eastman. Orchestras perform 4 times each semester. Chamber groups are required for first semester and then strongly encouraged in subsequent years. Composition students are always looking for students to play their pieces and alternative music groups abound. He has performed in orchestra, opera pit, various chamber groups, several personal recitals, master classes and other groups. Performance opportunities are not a problem at Eastman.</p>
<p>"Performance opportunities are not a problem at Eastman."</p>
<p>For sure! I often am sitting in the hall at Eastman waiting for my son (high schooler - in lessons or ensemble), and on virtually any night of the school year there are kids in tuxes and black dresses hauling instruments bustling all around and people streaming in to the performance halls.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for some good considerations to pass on to S. He is still debating, and said he plans to call teachers at both schools next week with long list of questions. He also told me he spent some time yesterday listening to recordings of IU and Eastman orchestras that he found on the internet. It just might be the kiss of death if he heard a trumpet out of tune :).</p>
<p>One quick question for Shennie, if you read this: What do the kids at Eastman do for fun and recreation?</p>
<p>"What do the kids at Eastman do for fun and recreation?"</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I read that. When D was at Interlochen (junior year) they had a music college fair at Interlochen on parents' weekend. It was wonderful- we met admissions reps from all the major music programs. I asked the Eastman rep ( a sour older woman) how often the kids went over to the Rochester campus to go to games or plays, etc. She glared at me and looked puzzled. I said, "You know, so they have a life!" She reared up (literally) and said, "Music IS their life! They don't have time for anything else!" I know this isn't totally true, but a number of people heard that, and it became the big joke of the weekend. D did not apply there.......</p>
<p>Eastman kid participate in many of the "normal" college activities including the party scene. Some do it more than others, but most party some. Son also played intramurals freshman and sophmore years - both soccer and ultimate frisbee. His teams were comprised of other Eastman students and they played against other teams at UR. Rochester has a very active indie music scene with seperate entrances to the bars for the under 21 crowd. He has enjoyed that. He loves attending many of the Eastman concerts and recitals and has occassionally taken in a play at UR. He enjoys getting together with friends to play non-classical music on his cello. He takes classes at UR because they involve his intellect in other ways. He loves to watch movies and get DVDs as well as going to the local movie theater right next to campus. </p>
<p>His life, however, does revolve around music. It is not unusual for him to leave his room at 8 AM and not return until after 10 PM. There are days when he is actually playing his instrument for 7-8 hours. One of his favorite recreational activities, when he can fit it in, is sleep!</p>
<p>just to clarify, I meant to say the IU has more performance opportunites because it has a larger enrollment. Eastman may in fact may have as much or more per individual player. I would think there may be roughly 20 trumpet majors at Eastman undergrad and more than twice that number at IU. But that is just a wild "guesstimate".</p>
<p>I agree with your concern about having to worry about transfers. Many of my friends keep saying, "if I don't like my choice, I won't worry, I'll just transfer," but this is easier said than done. Not only would it be a pain to go through auditioning and applying again, but you'd be entering into an already-formed sophomore class...it wouldn't be the same as coming in as another freshman, everyone looking for social groups and new friends and activities. </p>
<p>But other than that concern, it sounds to me like Eastman and IU have similar opportunities, what with their connections to university campuses as well as great music schools. Either one would be a great choice, it seems, and your son will be happy.</p>
<p>I wonder, many people seem to favor IU, and it is a much less expensive price tag for a great education, but other than the cost factor, why is IU so special? Hm.</p>
<p>srtatzarina: One of the biggest differences between IU an Eastman is the physical location in relation to the university campus. At IU, the school of music is a part of the main campus, and music students are together with students of other majors in dorms, liberal arts classes, and recreational activities. To the best of my knowledge, U Mich and Oberlin also have the same type of physical arrangement. At Eastman, and many other conservatories, the conservatory is actually in a different physical location from the main university campus. Music students have separate dorms, dining halls, and liberal arts classes, while participating in activities, classes, etc. on the main campus requires a bus ride.</p>
<p>As a parent, I think the appeal of IU is that my son would have a more typical college experience with friends outside of music, better liberal arts class selections, opportunity to attend Big Ten games, etc. As I mentioned in the OP , the down-side is the potential distraction of all that typical college activitiy when we know how important it is for music students to practice a gazillion hours each day!</p>
<p>mommab--oh, i see. i wasn't too aware of what eastman is like.</p>
<p>i think i will end up at iu next year! my choice is between that and peabody (and maybe oberlin, i'm waitlisted and waiting). but i love the big college experience with full range of academic opportunities and, of course, marching band which is offered at iu. </p>
<p>i guess the distraction of all this would depend on what type of person your son is. i know that i'm good with organizing my time and fitting things in (i've done it throughout high school--i love being super-busy).
of course, my practice time has suffered a bit in high school, but i'm sure i'll be more diligent about it once i'm in college once i've chosen just one instrument to stick with (i've been doing percussion and oboe throughout hs, and i've definitely suffered on each because of my attempt to keep at them both). anyway, maybe i'll see your son at iu! it sounds like the perfect place. </p>
<p>did he audition on the iu campus? when i went for my live audition and got a chance to hear some of the big bands, i was SO impressed. amazing talent. plus, i just loved the feel of the campus, the people, the teachers. i could definitely imagine myself there. however...we'll see how i do with the weather (i'm from san diego).</p>