<p>I understand everything anotherplanet has said.
“If you want to analyze it to death, yes it’s meaningless, which is why I don’t like to put deep thought into these kinds of things.” Well put.
Only, upon knowing that it’s meaningless, I can’t enjoy it.</p>
<p>Patricia Heaton struggling in math is cute. Tying that to the rivalry is not. I’m no longer talking about the video in itself.
Then I guess the problem is that I can’t identify with any large collective, because I have no need to. I like watching football, but not because everyone watches it, or because I follow umich due to pride. Thus, I have no need for school spirit.</p>
<p>“Am I supposed to go to Michigan with the sole purpose of studying everyday and not living life and having fun?”
Reductio ad Absurdum. I’m sure the rivalry is not your only source of life and fun. </p>
<p>“The point of college is to be independent”
Yes. To be independent of not just parents, but also of establishments such as the rivalry. You should seek to be an individual, go after what you like. That is what I think is the point of college. To put it simply, the rivalry is very “conform-y”.</p>
<p>“Succeeding is the first priority, everything else is secondary.”
Absolutely, but I think we have different definitions of “success”.</p>
<p>“Part of the reason I chose to come here was because football was so important.”
And I think that’s silly, but again, this is a matter of aesthetics.</p>
<p>You know, judging from the responses, I’m starting to think that I’m the weird one.
Oh well. I still think I’m right.</p>
<p>No, you’re not the weird one. It’s just a thing that people do to have fun. People also drink alcohol to have fun, but I don’t. Does that make me (or them) weird or wrong? No.</p>
<p>Here’s a helpful phrase for you that I happen to like (and use) a lot:</p>
<p>De gustibus non est disputandum.
Of taste, there is no dispute.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that it’s application to this thread is perfect, but nevertheless it’s not a big deal if you’re not into the rivalry.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I’m very independent. I follow my own ideas and philosophical beliefs. Everyone conforms. I understand the rivalry and I think its a fun way to approach football. I’ve never really been a hardcore college football fan. I only watch the NFL. You have your own interests, and I have mine. </p>
<p>Yes we have different definitions of success.</p>
<p>I never said the rivalry was my only source of life and fun. Its just apart of being a Michigan Wolverine(For some). There are many things that I find fun and exciting. There is no fun in over analyzing this rivalry. </p>
<p>Why do you think football is a partially bad or silly reason to come to a school. I’ve never been to college and college football seems very exciting. It brings people together. People have fun at these events. Most people have pride in being a Michigan Wolverine because of football and the other sports. I want to come to a school that has a lot of pride and school spirit. I look at abstract factors when picking a college. I don’t just pick a college solely based on education, location, etc.</p>
<p>Honestly you turned a what was supposed to be fun and hilarious thread into a serious useless argument.</p>
<p>It’s not just that I’m not big into the rivalry. I think people who are into it are silly because of the aforementioned reasons. Is this a matter of taste? If so, then the dichotomy is between people whose tastes lie in things they truly love, and people whose tastes are what they are told to enjoy. Maybe that’s being too harsh.</p>
<p>If that truly is the issue, then I suppose I should make like an existentialist, respect Entertainer’s right to assign aesthetic value to whatever he pleases, and be on my way, huh?</p>
<p>You might think this argument is useless, but it’s actually important to me. I also disagree with “Everyone conforms.” Of course, I’m not sure what you mean by that phrase. Especially since it followed “I’m very independent.”</p>
<p>Subroutine, surely you’re not assuming that it’s impossible for someone’s true love to lie in football? Just because lots of people like a certain thing (e.g. pizza) does not mean that everyone likes pizza because they are told to enjoy it. </p>
<p>I agree that some probably people participate in the rivalry because they are told to or expected to. However, now it should be easy for you to recognize that there are probably some people who participate in the rivalry because they want to (whatever that means… I think it means not because they are told to, not because they are expected to, and not because everyone else is doing it).</p>
<p>Additionally, if that truly is the issue, then yes, you probably should.</p>
<p>Well, good luck proving it absolutely. That’s precisely why you have to leave the issue open. There isn’t evidence (or another method) to put the argument 100% in your favor, so you have to leave the possibility open that you’re wrong.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to think of examples for you…</p>
<p>In the meantime, if you guys are going on about why OSU is inferior, just know not to take is seriously. To me it seems like many people are very serious about it. And that’s where I might be wrong.
I refer to fights that break out during football season and stuff like that. Heck, Ohio State is notorious for Michigan hate around football season (at least that’s what it sounds like to me. Cars being flipped over, etc.). That is taking it too far.</p>
<p>Although it is often difficult for me to perceive how serious someone is over the internet, you’ll find that some people take it (the rivalry) with a grain of salt, some people take it fairly seriously, some people are very hardcore, etc. Especially when alcohol is involved, people do take things way too far. I agree.</p>
<p>Here are two paragraphs. They may not be good examples, they may be…</p>
<p>After one or many yearly matchups</p>
<p>Possible perspective from a competitor: “Hey, these guys (the opponents) are pretty good. When I play them next, I’m gonna try extra hard. Any matchup with them is a big deal to me, because they push me to give my best performance (now I can attain my best performance and see how it stands up to theirs. I like winning because it’s something I genuinely enjoy).”</p>
<p>Possible perspective from a fan: “Hey, these guys (the opponents) are pretty good. When I watch my team play them next, I’m gonna cheer extra hard. Any matchup with them is a big deal to me, because they push my team (I enjoy watching my team win because it’s one of my tastes) to give their best performance.”</p>
<p>Hey, it just occurred to me that we have been talking about two different things.</p>
<ol>
<li>The grandiosity of the rivalry, and how some people take it too far, and the amount of people who take it too far.</li>
<li>The fundamentals of the rivalry and school pride, aesthetic value.</li>
</ol>
<p>I think we’ve agreed that 2 is unresolvable, right? So lets discuss 1 now.</p>
<p>Quite a few people take the rivalry too far (here I am tempted to link news articles on violence as a result). I think this taking-too-far-of stems from things such as this thread, created to enforce some kind of consensus that our school is better than theirs. Therefore, it is better to do without mindless yelpings of “OSU SUCKS” etc. Thus my initial reaction to this thread.</p>
<p>The scenarios you described I would say are in safe competition, within reasonable bounds.</p>
<p>Everyone conforms in one way or another, whether its intentional or not. No one can be an absolute non-conformist. You can conform based on unconscious influences that affect how you think and behave. What I’m trying to say is that you can be independent and still unintentionally conform. </p>
<p>Maybe there are people that think OSU is inferior, but I doubt anyone on this thread thought that. You brought about an argument that was valid, but you misinterpreted the point of the thread and the people posting. The OP probably never intended for people to believe that students from OSU are inferior just because they go to OSU. “OSU sucks” is a joke. The people on this thread don’t take that seriously. We honestly don’t believe we are superior to those students. We only think that when it comes to the football rivalry, but I guess I can’t speak for the actions or intentions of others. Sports is a win-lose situation. If you lose then you are inferior, vice versa. When I say OSU sucks, I’m talking about football. I’m not saying, “OSU is inferior to Michigan in academics, faculty and overall school resources.” I’m not thinking about opening up a can of whoopass on another student, just because he or she goes to OSU. Maybe people have done that, but again that wasn’t the intention of the thread.</p>
<p>Maybe others think differently, but there are some people that are hardcore Michigan Wolverine fans that would go so far as to say, believe, or actually behave wrongly to things like that. I doubt the people that have posted on this thread would go that far. Maybe the rivalry does go to peoples heads, but I don’t think it that was the intention of the clip.</p>
<p>However you are bringing to light a reasonable issue. Some people get caught up in the rivalry that it turns into violence, especially with alcohol consumption. Like I said, I’m an incoming freshman so I don’t know how far people have gone, but hey, its all fun and games for me.</p>
<h1>1 is where I hypothetically concede that the rivalry is fun and has its merits, and that there is nothing wrong with school spirit. With that out of the way, we can discuss how far the hatred goes and how seriously people take it.</h1>
<p>@Entertainer
Okay. It is generally common knowledge that OSU is inferior to umich in academics. What I mean is that when you say “OSU sucks” with respect to football, you may believe that your school is better, and as a result, that you are a better -person-. Again, I’m using an impersonal “you”. To me, it seems like many people are like that.</p>
<p>As for your views on conformism, I’ve agreed to lay that issue at rest in this thread. Private message me if you are interested in having a discussion about conformism.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure I agree with you about #1 entirely.</p>
<p>However, just in case (I’m also pretty sure that this is not what you were arguing about #1): human nature can be pretty awful and it’s not inconceivable to me that a fan could turn violent independently out of a misguided attempt to help their team, as opposed to being told to turn violent or being expected to turn violent.</p>
<p>Even so, I’d agree that at the very least, in the vast majority of cases, people turn violent because they were born into a family that acts a certain way, give in to peer pressure, see other people they don’t know acting the same way and think “this must be how it is,” and other things. So if the point in the above paragraph was what you were arguing about, I’d say the argument is 97-99.99% in your favor, which, in real-life, practical situations, is just about as good as a sure thing (but not theoretically!).</p>
<p>But, if that wasn’t a consideration of yours, my first and last sentences in this post are the only thing of interest. It’s a very bad thing to become mindless and believe that you are a better person due to the outcomes of a sports game with a rival.</p>
<p>Pancakes, I’d even extend your premise to people who turn violent because they see that the rivalry exists, see the already present violence, and think that it’s okay. I guess a point I’m trying to make is that violence stems from seemingly innocuous things such as this thread.</p>
<p>Yeah, violence does have its roots in things like this.</p>
<p>Realistically, I think that you’re entirely right, but the math part of my brain isn’t leaving the idea alone that someone could act violently with complete independence.</p>
<p>Agreed then. People act violently because of outside influences, such as present violence regarding the rivalry, and thus violence has roots in things such as this thread.</p>
<p>Right. Although some people can watch this video, keeping in mind that the rivalry is pointless, and just enjoy a good laugh (even though you aren’t this type of person right now), others can’t, because the the video has a negative influence on people who take the rivalry very seriously or forget about the “fun” of the rivalry… <em>degenerates into post #15</em></p>
<p>I don’t know what time zone you’re in, but it’s 2 AM here (bed time)!</p>
<p>yall keep debatin’.
I still have the last laugh on the vid. LOL… a 3rd grade kid can do solve that problem.
wow i just repeated wat everyone now had said.
still, lols.</p>
