Its just not fair or right!

Applying to College
21

<p>Joe:</p>

<p>You do realize that as a resident of DC you can get up to $10,000 per year from the DC government to pay for tuition at out-of-state public universities like UVA or UMCP? While it may be too late for this year to apply to these schools I suggest that you go to BCCC get the 4.0 and transfer. </p>

<p>And btw, re-read several times the contributions from Northstarmom and Sybbie. They're providing you with good advice. You have a lot of excellent possibilities in front of you. Take advantage of them.</p>

22

<p>Yeah I do know about it the DCTAG thing, but I am content with going to BCCC as i am already late, but i want to know exactly how much emphasis do admissions at college give to people like me and have you ever heard of comm. college transfer to a top school (i.e ivy league)</p>

23

<p>I appreciate all your help, but sybbie my attitude is not "woe is me", I am concerned, i am not letting things pass me by, I am on this site looking for help on how to get into a top school. No offense Sybbie but you are speaking from the other side of the spectrum- you made it out-I just want to know how to get closer to the end of my tunnel</p>

24

<p>Joe, one more thing...
Yes, I agree that legacies do have advantages at Ivies. But dude, becomming a legacy will just not get you in.
Remember, it is the person they want. The legacy factor is only (at least mostly) used in tie-breaking situations, when grades, scores, recommendations and even essays dont work.</p>

<p>So, you should worry about you being a legacy or not only if you have other parts of your application strong.</p>

<p>My advice, go to that community college of yours, take all kindsa rigorous courses available, get them bloody As in ur transcripts, go for some community service, try out a varsity sport, be popular in college so you get good recommendations......and then when it's time for you to transfer......strike the admissions committe with your essay....</p>

<p>you forget that your essay can be your main weapon. Show your zeal, passion, commitment and dedication in your essay. (You can even start off now for the essay. I know some of my friends who started writing their college admission essays in their sophomore year and refined it for more than a year. It worked for them!)</p>

<p>Further you, I suppose you are an URM, so that will work to your advantage.
In my view, a dedicated URM is better than a DUMB legacy!!!</p>

25

<p>I vote for the troll theory:</p>

<p>-- Just joined and has only posted on this thread. </p>

<p>-- Someone serious about academics for the past year would have done college research. "Applied to Howard because it is close" makes no sense. The OP apparently has a computer and clearly could have gone to a library or bookstore and researched.</p>

<p>-- If closeness is key, then why would he opt for Baltimore City CC if he lives in DC? That is one nasty commute, particularly if one supposedly still has to work. There are a number of much closer CCs. But "Baltimore City" sounds more pathetic.</p>

<p>-- Why say he is "going to" go to BCCC if he still has an outstanding application to Howard? Why only mention Howard in the second post? If Howard isn't a sure thing, why didn't he apply elsewhere?</p>

<p>-- Why didn't he ask about where he could apply before now if he had his academic awakening a year ago? It is now too late for most places. If he wants something other than BCCC or Howard, why does he only now realize it? And why wouldn't he be asking about whether there are any schools he could still apply to for next fall? </p>

<p>-- Why is someone supposedly so bright unaware of financial aid or that many people do get degrees from community colleges then transfer to 4 year schools?</p>

<p>-- Why does the SAT score predate when the OP supposedly first got interested in academics and presumably in going to college? A SAT taken last spring or this fall would have a score out of 2400, not 1600.</p>

<p>-- Why would someone who starts out with the tone of "I'm poor, the cards are stacked against me, legacies are so unfair, there is no help for poor folks" not be willing to use the three hooks he supposedly has that would help get him into a better college -- poverty, first generation college student, and URM status?</p>

<p>-- How can a supposed senior in high school be posting on this board during school hours? </p>

<p>There are probably other peculiarities if I thought about it some more, but I think that's enough.</p>

26

<p>Joe:</p>

<p>With the 1350 and the DC money you will be an easy transfer admit into College Park and the University of Delaware. Likewise I think you'll also have a very good chance at transferring to UVA especially if you do well in Baltimore. UNC would also be a good possibility since the 18% limitation is only on first year students.</p>

<p>Think about it--you have the opportunity to go to most of the state universities in the US at minimal cost to you. With your credentials there might even be merit money.</p>

<p>You have great prospects in front of you.</p>

27

<p>Good points, Diane R. I'd be interested to see the OP's answers to your questions. I myself was wondering if the 1350 is out of 2400 or 1600.</p>

28

<p>Joe,</p>

<p>You wrote:</p>

<p>
[quote]
It seems as though what is superfluous in affluent circles is extremely lacking in the my community. FOR CHRIST SAKE I AM ABOUT TO BE THE 3RD PERSON IN MY FAMILY TO GRADUATE, AND 1ST TO THINK ABOUT COLLEGE. I had a few experiences in my junior year that changed me and made me do well. But sincerely, what ivy league or top school is gonna accept a kid from BALTIMORE CITY COMMUNITY COLLEGE!!! I dont have enough money to get out and sadly the fact that colleges are looking at me in almost the same light as a student whose mother went to Stanford, and Dad to Yale,who had the opportunity to go to schools that honed their skills while mine stayed rough is apalling. I am mad, sad, and thoroughly scared that I may become part of a system that is cliched "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>this is a bit woe is me or if it makes you feel better you can switch to no body knows the trouble I've seen but it nets out to the same thing and at the end of the day you are still going to have to play the cards you are dealt.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No offense Sybbie but you are speaking from the other side of the spectrum

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But I am also in the postition to say been there, done that as I have not always been on the "other side" (I was a first generation college student as my parents grew up in the rural south and were not allowed to attend school as they were still segregated) . </p>

<p>My story is also not all of that unique because many other people have also done it. Now it is up to you to decide if you want to be part of that number that makes it to the other side. Should I also add that I worked full time to put myself through college and attended graduate school as a single parent with a young child in tow? </p>

<p>In my non-CC life, I work with developing college programs and opportunties for adults in addition to coaching and counseling kids (I am also a licensed GC) on the college process many who would consider themselves living the good life if they lived in a 2 parent home making 60,000 year as these student (also black) have parents who are dead, in jail, live on public assistance but still feel that they want to break cycles. Any story you put forth I can most likely top and give you and example of someone who has done better.</p>

<p>What you have to keep in mind that even the journey of a 1000 miles begins with the first step. Right now the reality is that you are not in a position to attend an ivy league school. It does not mean that it is not possible.</p>

<p>You will have to turn things around and the only way to do this is to put your high school record behind you as right now the best predictor of future behavior is relative past behavior and the reason why grades trump scores (although they are still important) in the admissions process. This is not going to happen until you have 2 years of college behind you (which is why it would not be in your best interest to apply as a first year transfer). </p>

<p>If your heart is set on upon having an ivy name on your degree, do the 2 years at community college, do well and at worse case you could apply to the school of general studies at Columbia, Harvard's extension school, the general studies program at Penn. Other schools to consider are Georgetown's school of continuing studies, and Woods College of Advancing Studies at Boston College, and the Paul Mcghee school at NYU.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why say he is "going to" go to BCCC if he still has an outstanding application to Howard? Why only mention Howard in the second post? If Howard isn't a sure thing, why didn't he apply elsewhere?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While he may have the scores and grades to be admitted to howard, he does not have the grades + scores to get any kind of merit money from the school. for example if he had a 3.25 instead of a with 2.3 gpa, this combination he would have been eligible for a capstone scholarship that would have covered tuition, room and fees. </p>

<p>Howard as a school is notorious for not giving really good financial aid, so had he decided to attend, he would have had a lot of loans.</p>

29

<p>"you got that 2.3 gpa by your own hand and you are going to have to deal with it. "</p>

<p>That's very true. With your extraordinarily high board scores in a mediocre school system, if you'd performed academically up to your abilities, you would have had a decent chance at virtually any college in the country, including many that would have given you full aid. However, you did not get the grades that you were capable of, and that's not due to being poor, that's due to your own decisions.</p>

<p>Instead of blaming others, you need to take responsibility for your actions, and then go to whatever college you can get into. If you live up to your capabilities in college and use the Internet and other resources to find transfer options, you'd have the ability to transfer to a better college, including getting the necessary financial aid.</p>

<p>To accomplish these things, however, you will need to stop cursing fate and take advantage of your God-given talents such as your intelligence and your access to the Internet and libraries (even if your Internet access is through the public library). </p>

<p>Trust me: Tough as you think your life is, things were far worse for the people who came before you who didn't have things like the Internet and CC to help them, and who grew up in legal segregation, too.</p>

<p>If they can make it out of desperately poor situations in which they were being raised by grandparent or uneducated single parents (and I know people who made it out of the ghetto and into and through college and grad school even though they didn't know who their fathers were, had single moms who died young due to AIDS and drug addiction), with all of your advantages and options, you can, too -- if you stop whining and use your energy on reaching your dreams.</p>

30

<p>You mentioned going to Ballou in freshman year. When I was growing up, I lived at the bottom of hill from Ballou HS, but that was in the 1960's before SE became such a bad area. My sister graduated from Ballou. Since then, it seems that whenever anything is on the news about DC Public Schools, it is about Ballou. Several students seem to be murdered each year. I remember a map of the area that was in the Washington Post showing where seven people had been shot in separate drive-by killings in the last two weeks. All of them were within three blocks of the apartment that I grew up in.</p>

<p>From a strictly admissions viewpoint, you would have been pretty attractive to the elite colleges except for your gpa, and you would have gotten a lot of financial aid. The legacy hook is not nearly as strong as the URM (under-represented minority) hook. Of course, somebody whose parents give $50 million to a college has a better chance, but believe it or not, not many people fall into that category.</p>

<p>It doesn;t make sense to talk about where you could have applied last year. I doubt if you could have gotten into an ivy school anyway because of your gpa. Also, it can be hard for people coming from a poor public school background to suddenly find themselves at one of the elite schools. I'm not saying that you couldn't do the work, but the amount of work and the peer competition is a shock.</p>

<p>From where you are now, it would be good to have a year to build up your gpa and then transfer to a better school. College really do look for people like you. You have a very high SAT under the circumstances. It is amazing that you could have done that considering your academic background. You are obviously intelligent and write well. Some people on CC think that you are faking the posts because of that. If you pull up your grades in freshman year, you would have an extremely good chance at transferring to the college of your choice. One of the disadvantages that you have had is not being around the type of culture where everyone is oriented towards college.</p>

<p>Financial aid works as follows: Each college has a COA (Cost of Attendance) that includes tuition, room & board, books, and etc. At the private colleges, this can be $45K per year. Each financial aid applicant fills out a FAFSA form and their EFC (Expected Family Contribution) is calculated. This is the amount of money that the college expects you and your family to pay towards your education. Your NEED is COA minus EFC. Most colleges, particularly the good ones, will meet your NEED with a combination of grants (free money), loans (probably $5K per year that you don't pay back until you graduate), and work-study (jobs around campus). The system is set up so that somebody from a poor background pays almost nothing while a middle/upper class family gets almost no aid. You shouldn't base your college choices on money since going to a more expensive college will just mean that you get more aid.</p>

<p>The money that some people have talked from DC is thru the DCTAG program, but I believe you have to apply for that before starting freshman year and so it wouldn't help you as a transfer.
<a href="http://www.seo.dc.gov/seo/cwp/view,A,1226,Q,536770,seoNav_GID,1510,.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.seo.dc.gov/seo/cwp/view,A,1226,Q,536770,seoNav_GID,1510,.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You need to attend college somewhere and get your gpa up. When applying as a transfer student, they will look at your college grades instead of your high school grades. If you go to Howard, you may just like it there.</p>

31

<p>Joe:</p>

<p>I didn't see the part about your gpa. Clearly that's not helpful. Doing well at a CC will make a big difference. I think that you can still apply for tuition assistance for next fall.</p>

32

<p>Duplicate......</p>

33

<p>Diane R </p>

<p>I am responding to your ridiculous claims because i dont want people like tsdad,ntek,sybbie,lightstar, and northstarmom to stop giving me advice ( I REALLY APPRECIATE IT)</p>

<p>The only reason I am attending BCCC is because i have an uncle who works for the school system and has promised me that he will make an investment in me BY PAYING OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET FOR MY CLASSES, that is worth the 45 minute commute</p>

<p>I have been aware of college opportunities but at the same time I have a low GPA and i cant expect any merit scholarships and i would have to take loans which would amount to alot of money.</p>

<p>I am aware that Comm College students transfer to 4 year schools, but how many of them got into to ivy league or top tier school?</p>

<p>I put my SAT score out of 1600 because I know that colleges dont judge the writing section, in which I got 660</p>

<p>I used the tone that i have because it is the way I feel and I am not here to moan and cry, I am here to get advice, help, and learn about what i can do.</p>

<p>I made posts during school hours, BECAUSE I WAS AT SCHOOL, just because i go to school in DC doesnt mean there are no computers in the classrooms.</p>

<p>The main reason I am so interested in ivy league schools, is because thats where the best are and I want to be there, along with that i want to learn and go to a school where the intelectual atmosphere is at its highest. I also know that Harvard on its financial aid website gave full grants to kids who had less than 45000, and i am almost in that category.
Diane please dont question me or my integrity why would i spend all this time if i wasnt in this situation</p>

34

<p>try princeton man...they really understand people in you situation and it might even help out. plus, they have the BEST financial aid program. you will graduate with almost no debt and it is guaranteed</p>

35

<p>tsdad my grades are as follows: freshman 1.5 soph- 2.4 junior-3.0 they said it doesnt include this year, so far im at 3.6</p>

36

<p>"The main reason I am so interested in ivy league schools, is because thats where the best are and I want to be there, along with that i want to learn and go to a school where the intelectual atmosphere is at its highest."</p>

<p>It is a fallacy that there are no schools except Ivies wehre the intellectual atmosphere is high. I say this as a Harvard grad.</p>

<p>Indeed, I think that there probably are nonIvy colleges where the overall intellectual atmosphere is higher than at Ivies because, for instance, some highly rated nonIvies are not as interested in ECs and other factors as the Ivies are.</p>

<p>Harvard and similar colleges select students to create well rounded classes. That means classes filled with smart students who also create a class that is diverse in terms of geography, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, politics, interests (including EC interests).</p>

<p>Meanwhile, places like Cooper Union and CalTech select their students far more by scores and grades. I think that some of the top LACs also pay less attention to creating a well rounded class than attracting extremely bright, very academically focused students. That's why there are LACs, for example, that have a far higher pecentage of graduates who obtain doctorates than does a place like Harvard.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, one doesn't have to go to a top college to be in an atmosphere with plenty of very bright peers. </p>

<p>While relatively few students go from community colleges to top tier colleges, if you do as well in a community college as you are capable of, you'd have better chances than most students do of making that kind of transition to a top tier college. To do so, you also should spend time achieving at a high level (meaning leadership, impact) in at least one EC as well as your doing extremely well in tough courses.</p>

37

<p>I don't have much to add to Northstarmom. I'm interested in your situation because I lived on Capitol Hill for 15 years before we moved to NoVA and I worked downtown for over 30 years. </p>

<p>Make sure that you are not excluding yourself from the DC grant process. I don't know if CCs are covered, but if they are be sure to apply. I'm a state university person (Rutgers/UNC), and my education was outstanding and my career very satisfactory. I understand the aid thing, but I would not plan your whole future around that vague possibility. Look closely at UMCP. Do they have an articulation agreement with BCCC? What other schools does BCCC have agreements with?</p>

38

<p>You haven't answered all my points (the timing issue and the peculiar status of Howard in your story, in particular) and the answers you did give don't satisfy me (e.g., you didn't report the writing score because you know colleges don't judge it? They do ask for it, people commonly report it on CC, and how would you know anyway what colleges do -- you are supposedly the one who doesn't know anything about researching and getting into college). I can also see other reasons your story doesn't hang together. For instance, could someone who did poorly in math get a high SAT score without prep? Can someone with poor English grades and incapable of posting here without a great many grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors manage to get high verbal and writing scores?</p>

<p>You say you aren't here to "moan and cry" but to ask what you can do. But you called the thread "Its [sic] just not fair or right!" and your first post only asked if people agreed with you and felt your pain. You asked for no advice. All you seem to want to hear about is whether a poor black with bad high school grades and attending BCCC can transfer to Harvard. The actual advice people having been giving you (work hard and get good grades in BCCC, tuition assistance, etc.) has been largely shrugged off. You seem to only want to hear someone say that a person who is not yet qualified for Harvard can get in if he is poor and black. </p>

<p>Others can play with you if they want. I am not going to spend any more time on this thread.</p>

<p>Trolls do it for any number of reasons. I don't know which is operative here.</p>

39

<p>I have checked into the articulation agreement but it seems the only one that they have is through the agricultural and life sciences department.As for the DCTAG, I talked with a counselor at school and she said it was created to make students have instate rates at schools out-of state she said that if i applied to use it at BCCC as i will i wont be able to use it if i transfer out (i.e Maryland)</p>

40

<p>You need to look up the DCTAG rule yourself and not rely on yor counselor. As bad as most mediocre schools' counselors are, I don't suggest relying on their advice without double checking things with the true authorities.</p>