It's official: Early Decision ends at UVA

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>I figured I'd post this bit of news now that it's official.</p>

<p>University of Virginia ends early decision program
By KRISTEN GELINEAU
Associated Press Writer Sep 25, 2006</p>

<p>RICHMOND, Va. - The University of Virginia in Charlottesville announced Monday it was dropping its early decision admission process, becoming the third prominent university this month to announce the cancellation of such programs.</p>

<p>The decision, which will apply to those entering the university in the fall of 2008, was made to level the playing field for low-income students, who rarely apply for early decision, U.Va. President John T. Casteen III said.</p>

<p>The programs, which are common at many of the nation's universities, give high school seniors who apply in the fall a decision by mid-December _ before regular admissions application deadlines.</p>

<p>U.Va. has had an early decision program since the 1960s. Students who apply agree to enroll in the school if they are offered admission. Each year, early decision applicants make up about 30 percent of the entering class.</p>

<p>Earlier this month, Harvard and Princeton announced they would drop early admissions programs starting with the class entering in 2008.</p>

<p>Harvard said early admissions programs undermined campus diversity because poor and minority students are less likely to use them, and they create anxiety for those applicants who take advantage of them.</p>

<p>The University of Delaware also dropped early decision this year, and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill did the same in 2002.</p>

2

<p>I really like the initiative being taken by UVA and the other top schools, ED really reflected the class-differences at my HS because many people simply couldnt put all their chips in at one school because if they were accepted because it took away their ability to choose what schools were best for them financially. It happened to me and many others I know. This honestly helps level the playing field for many HS students of all types of backgrounds.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for that comment. I know we'll hear a lot of feedback, both positive and negative, about this. </p>

<p>I was never a big fan of early admission and will be happy to see it phased out. Other schools WILL follow, I'm certain of it.</p>

4

<p>Big news!</p>

5

<p>Yea, finances are the reason I didn't apply ED anywhere. Can't bind myself to one school's full tuition.</p>

6

<p>i don't understand how its a disadvantage to kids...so they apply in the regular round - big whoop. how is it any different?</p>

<p>no offense, but the advantage of being a poor or black or both and applying regular is about 1,000,000x (especially if a minority) better than being a white or wealthy or both student who applies in the early round.</p>

<p>go ahead and phase out ed - and phase out all those AA bonuses you give to minority students as well.</p>

7

<p>I don't think there are any bonuses given to poor students per se, except maybe holistically if certain situations come out in the essays.</p>

<p>I don't see why UVA needs ED anyway. It's not like they're getting a lock on critical students- how many OOSers or top IS students even apply ED?</p>

8

<p>Things like this are <em>so</em> trendy in higher education. Once one major player (usually Harvard...) makes a choice, others follow in lock step. I suppose announcing this so early will give UVA some <em>free</em> advertising while maintaining the PC image that administrators strive so hard to maintain.</p>

<p>Dean J, will there at least be some sort of early action? Also, will UVA switch to the Common Application?</p>

9

<p>early decision is for wimps. ;)</p>

10

<p>
[QUOTE]
Things like this are <em>so</em> trendy in higher education. Once one major player (usually Harvard...) makes a choice, others follow in lock step.

[/QUOTE]
Think of it this way: Harvard and Princeton dropping the plans made those who didn't see any problem with early admission more receptive to our arguments to do away with it. While some of us would have been fine with being the first do make this step, some are more cautious and reluctant.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that this is good news. EA/ED put more pressure on students earlier and, in ED's case, locked some out of part of the process. </p>

<p>As for the Common App, we still plan to move to it once the University's new student information system is in place.</p>

11

<p>As a UVA alum (and ED admittee) and parent of three high school age kids, one of whom is a senior, I can sum up my feelings about UVA's decision as:</p>

<p>Booooooooooooooooooooooo!</p>

<p>I am a huge fan of the University and have given money nearly every year since my graduation and am an active follower of the academic and athletic activities at the school. My family has a long history of attendance and support from my father to my brother to several nephews and nieces, but I think that this move will prove to weaken those ties. </p>

<p>Virginia does not win the cross admit battles with the Ivies and many other top privates and I do not see how this move improves the school's positioning. This move smacks of wannabe. Virginia is not Harvard and Princeton, who are still going to get the very top students and will see their yields fall only modestly (if at all). Frankly, when Harvard and Princeton made their decision to drop EA/ED, I saw this as an opening for the University of Virginia to pick off a few of the top students who might otherwise have committed to H or P. </p>

<p>While my household may not be representative of some of the students that UVA is trying to attract (as all three kids attend strong private schools), this move does have repercussions for us and perhaps other families like us who, despite our favorable economic status, do also represent a constituency of the University past, present and hopefully future. </p>

<p>My primary objections are twofold. First, while my children may have been inclined to pursue an ED application to the University (they have visited the school probably a dozen times and we follow many of the sports teams), the elimination of ED now encourages, nay forces, them to consider a wider range of schools. Some schools that come to mind are Duke, UNC, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Emory, Northwestern, W&M. If accepted to UVA, my children may still elect to attend vs these other schools, but I feel a bit like this is opening Pandora's Box as I don't know where the college process would then lead my child and our family. </p>

<p>Second, and this has been commented on widely, there is definitely a stress-reduction benefit to early admission. I remember how I personally felt and I also remember how much I enjoyed my senior year of high school as a result. </p>

<p>To my knowledge, there is very little published data that shows how the University will benefit from eliminating ED. I have read about the paucity of ED applicants from lower income groups and concur that this is undesirable. But I am left with more questions than answers about what this move really gives UVA:
1) Iis it really necessary to eliminate ED in order to attract low income students?<br>
2) How many lower income students does the University target in its admissions and, more importantly, how many more does the University expect to attract by virtue of cutting ED?<br>
3) Can't the University make a better effort at identifying the lower income students earlier in the admissions process (as is happening broadly in college athletics where students are frequently committing in their JUNIOR year)?<br>
4) Why can't the University recruit them directly, perhaps even for ED so that we can lock them up and not get into a dogfight with the Ivies or other top privates?<br>
5) Wasn't the Access UVA program established to level the financial playing field so that the lower income students would be encouraged to apply and isn't this program also available for ED admits? </p>

<p>While this thread is generally supportive of the school's move, I don't seek to inflame the discussion by taking an opposite position. I hope that this will be a forum where we can respectfully debate this topic. I suspect that there are many others whose voices have yet to be heard. I look forward to your contributions as well as any constructive responses to my post.</p>

12

<p>Dean J, </p>

<p>Hopefully the decision to discontinue ED at the University will better serve its mission as a state-supported institution of higher learning. To me, a primary mission of the University is to ensure better educated citizens in the State of Virginia. Having a significant pool of highly qualified OOS students is consistent with this goal. I don't know the detailed statistics of OOS admission, but I do worry that this change in policy may discourage OOS applicants. It is already difficult for highly qualified non-URM OOS to gain admission. Discontinuing ED may further discourage this pool of applicants. Thus, it seems to me that additional efforts will be needed to maintain the number of OOS applicants. </p>

<p>If Harvard and Princeton are indeed sincere in their goal to level the playing field for the economically disadvantaged, I can think of at least a dozen admission practices other than ED that will serve the purpose better.</p>

<p>From a graduate of A&S and GSA&S</p>

13

<p>Daja, as I wrote above, I know that we'll have a range of feedback to this decision. I know that it's hard to see this from a vantage point other than the one you presently occupy. Firebird's short comment above gives a glimpse into how ED affects many, many students who aren't financially able to commit to a school without a financial aid package.</p>

<p>Regardless of our efforts to promote the generous aid we have for low income families, these students do not feel comfortable with the early process.</p>

<p>
[QUOTe]
I do worry that this change in policy may discourage OOS applicants. It is already difficult for highly qualified non-URM OOS to gain admission. Discontinuing ED may further discourage this pool of applicants. Thus, it seems to me that additional efforts will be needed to maintain the number of OOS applicants.

[/QUOTE]
Last year, 10,000 of our 16,000 applications came from outside the state...that's roughly 2/3 of the applications. The majority apply during regular decision, so I don't think the lack of early admission will have a negative effect on those numbers.</p>

14

<p>Dean J,</p>

<p>Re Firebird's post and your comment, I could perhaps support the move if I understood how many well-qualified kids are being locked out of the process AND what the University really loses by admitting a portion of its class via ED. Would you please help me and others better understand the specific data that underlie this decision?</p>

15

<p>
[QUOTE]
Would you please help me and others better understand the specific data that underlie this decision?

[/QUOTE]
I think the best reponse comes right from Jack Blackburn.
[QUOTE]
John Blackburn, dean of admission at U.Va., said that consideration had been given in the past to altering or eliminating the early decision option. Blackburn said a key element in making the decision was the introduction three years ago of AccessUVa, the University’s innovative financial aid program designed to make U.Va. more affordable and to reduce or eliminate student debt.</p>

<p>“While our staff had discussed the pros and cons of eliminating early decision or moving to an early action plan that is not binding, the reality of how few low-income students apply for any early plans really was compelling for me,” said Blackburn. “As we continue enhancing the AccessUVa program, our early decision program seems inconsistent with the goals of AccessUVa.”</p>

<p>According to Blackburn, only one student who qualified for the maximum financial aid package available under AccessUVa applied under the early decision plan last year. In addition, fewer than 20 of the 947 students accepted under the early decision plan last December applied for financial aid.</p>

<p>“I have been involved in recent months with a national task force on low-income students, and there is little doubt that early admission programs put low-income students at a significant disadvantage in the process,” Blackburn said. “This runs counter to our goal of increasing the diversity of our student body.”</p>

<p>In addition to citing potential inequities that early decision programs create for less advantaged students, concerns have been raised by secondary school counselors about heightened pressure in the admissions process for students and the role that early decision plays in what has been described as a frenzied atmosphere.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

16

<p>Dean J,</p>

<p>I appreciate John Blackburn's words and the goals of the Access UVA program and the intention of this move. It does go to the moral high ground. Others with whom I have spoken today tell me that all of the top schools will go this way and that Virginia is smart to get out in front of this wave and get some positive publicity from the media associating UVA with Harvard and Princeton. Only time will tell if others do follow, but I suspect that the PR benefits are temporary and not large. Furthermore, I'm just not convinced that the practical effect will be UVA capturing a higher share of the top URMs and other lower income applicants. In fact, I fear that the cost may be even higher as the elimination of ED puts into play many of the students who previously were strong ED applicants but are now being forced to consider alternatives. </p>

<p>I believe in the value of the University's undergraduate offering and long considered it a foregone conclusion that my son (and his siblings who will soon follow) would poke around at other schools and then quickly conclude that UVA was the best place for them. While he still may come to this conclusion and apply ED this year, he has also discovered that there are several other, very high quality alternatives where he could also be very happy. Out of the 947 ED admits last year, I suspect that more than a handful were similar to my son and it is not hard to imagine that some of these students would be lost to other schools. </p>

<p>For example, suppose you have a qualified student (IS or OOS) who might have traditionally applied to UVA ED and been admitted. This student is now forced to apply RD to UVA and other schools because there is no assurance of acceptance. Possibilities might include other top rated schools like Northwestern, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, W&M, UNC and maybe even some of the lower Ivies, eg, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Penn. The University may still win these cross admit battles (although the Revealed Preference study would show data to the contrary), but I wonder what UVA really gains by putting itself in this position. In my household, UVA still holds its own against these schools, but among the top 20% of students in my son's highly competitive private high school, UVA loses the cross admit battle to nearly all of these schools. </p>

<p>So IMO UVA must consider the trade-off between the lower income students that the school hopes that this policy attracts (and I still have no idea how many students we are talking about) and those formerly likely ED admits who might now be intrigued by other schools and end up matriculating there. </p>

<p>Thus, I must ask again- Is getting rid of ED really the best way to increase application and matriculation rates of lower income students? At the end of the day, we have to just trust Blackburn, Casteen, Dean J and the other deans, but count me as one skeptical and nervous alum.</p>

17

<p>People who apply ED to UVA are typically IS students who have no chance at getting into Duke, UNC OOS, Georgetown, Darthmouth, Brown, Cornell, etc. I don't see how this hurts UVA's applicant pool at all. The ED program is notorious for giving a little 'boost' to applicants who would otherwise apply RD, because the pool is much less competitive. Almost all the most qualified applicants are the ones who apply RD because they are the ones who actually are in positions to choose from a variety of other top schools. Now we also get the low income students who are smart and qualified but didn't apply ED because of various reasons stated above.</p>

<p>Basically, the less ED admits we have, the better. No ED admits is great. Untilted is right, I suppose.</p>

18

<p>
[QUOTE]
Is getting rid of ED really the best way to increase application and matriculation rates of lower income students?

[/QUOTE]
We've done much to serve this population...from establishing full scholarships (AccessUVA) to sending admission officers to some of the poorest counties in the state (and beyond). Now, we can add early admission to the obstacles we've addressed at UVA. I can't tell you how this is going to play out, nor can I say that this will solve all of our problems with attracting low income students, but I feel great about trying to chip away at the barriers these kids face in gaining access to higher education.
[QUOTE]
he has also discovered that there are several other, very high quality alternatives where he could also be very happy. Out of the 947 ED admits last year, I suspect that more than a handful were similar to my son and it is not hard to imagine that some of these students would be lost to other schools.

[/QUOTE]
Having lots of students commit to UVA early is great for the business side of admission. It’s not what I'd consider a "best practice". I speak from an educational standpoint, with student development in mind.</p>

<p>Early admission changed the order of the college process for students. Before ED the order was:</p>

<ol>
<li> Visit colleges on the “long” list</li>
<li> Create a “short” list</li>
<li> Submit applications</li>
<li> Receive acceptance letters from colleges</li>
<li> Choose a college from those that sent an acceptance letter</li>
</ol>

<p>With early admission, the decision making part of the process (#5) is moved up to before applications are even submitted (#3). Students are asked to make a choice before they know their options. Adults often balk when potential employers who do this and we're talking about a very similar situation.</p>

<p>Again, ED is great for business, but I don't think it's so great for students. Think about what a high school student is going through in September and October of senior year: They're just getting back to school, are probably dealing with the most challenging course load they've ever taken, are probably assuming leadership positions in their clubs and organizations and have application essays to write on top of that. I don't think it's the ideal time to be making such a huge decision.</p>

<p>In the future, students will enroll at UVA because it's their top choice among all the schools that offered them a spot.</p>

19

<p>see, i don't really care if we dont win cross admits against chicago, amherst, or brown. by having RD only, we will be able to get students who have more pride in UVa, I think. You gotta love UVa a whole lot if you give up chicago, amherst and brown for it.</p>

20

<p>sv3a</p>

<p>Without having access to the actual data of the ED admits, I'm not sure that we can draw any hard conclusions about the quality of the ED applicant pool. You may be right that the quality is lower (is this data available anywhere?), but the admissions folks have historically aggressively challenged that assumption. Once you take out the athletes, weaker legacy kids, and development admits, you still have a lot of students and not all of these are weak IS kids just looking for an edge. </p>

<p>While I don't have the specifics, IMO, many, many kids in the ED pool would get in anyway, ED or RD, so I urge you to rethink labelling all of them as underqualified and undeserving and certainly not as wimps :) . At the margin perhaps, but for the broad group, I believe (hope?) that the vast majority of ED admits are as strong as the RD admits. (Perhaps Dean J can comment on the quality of the ED admits vis-a-vis the RD admittees.) </p>

<p>My point is that if those kids are qualified and are ready to make a commitment to the University and apply ED, why put them back into play and have them potentially enroll elsewhere? We on the outside don't know how many are actually in this category (although admissions must have an idea), but an even greater unknown is if the elimination of ED will result in an increased number of qualified low income applicants (how many more?) and, more importantly, matriculants. </p>

<p>While it is rarely a lock that any applicant will get into Virginia, my son is a very legitimate candidate. He would also be a very legitimate candidate for the other schools you mentioned, a couple of which he will ultimately make application to should his ED application be deferred or rejected. If he or some other well qualified candidate wants to apply early, then I don't understand how the University benefits by telling him he can't. Elimination of ED only pushes him into the arms of another school. </p>

<p>After doing a fairly broad college search, my son likes several other schools and could definitely see himself at somewhere other than Virginia. We are very much a UVA family so the possibility is still very strong that he applies early to the U. But not all families are as committed to the University. Having seen a dozen other schools over the past year, the choice of Virginia may still be compelling, but it is not the only compelling offering out there. (BTW, this was a revelation to me as I really thought that Virginia was the greatest undergraduate experience out there and yes, it is great, but there are definitely more than a few acceptable alternatives.) Further compounding this is the fact that other schools have proven themselves much more effective at making students feel wanted (see other threads on the UVA board that compare UVA to other schools on this). So, again, what is to be gained from postponing the acceptance of a student who would have gotten in anyway during the RD round??</p>

<p>Finally, please help me understand your reasoning on the fewer ED admits, the better. Just because someone has fewer financial resources does not automatically make them a better admit (or a better person). And if UVA increases its enrollment of a less affluent student body, this does not automatically qualify it as a better school.</p>