<p>Our state schools are not competitive for us to get into.</p>
<p>Maybe not for you, your excellency.</p>
<p>But UVA and W&M are very competitive for us.</p>
<p>The bar is about as low as it can go for a 66% instate school, and schools like JMU, Tech, and VCU are definitely not 'competitive' unless we're talking about a bunch of Radford student perceptions.</p>
<p>If you actually enjoy writing more essays for some reason or another, then good for you, but that means nothing when we're talking about the usefulness of the common app to the school.</p>
<p>Yea, but sv3a, they need to show off their personalities and emotions to prove that they're more than average numbers! (because that will really help them when they take organic chemistry or complex analysis.)</p>
<p>I think it attracts different types of personalities...Like I said, the University of Chicago's essays seems like they will attract one type of student over another. And I'm not sure if you remember from when you were applying to undergrad schools, but it always helps to stand out in the crowd so you are not soley judged on your e/cs and transcript, and one way to do this is by a fun and creative essay :)</p>
<p>Good for you, but that's besides the point.</p>
<p>Just wait until you have to fill out your information for 3489734985745785464 different schools' applications. Then the ones that use the common app. You will then understand why it is a good thing.</p>
<p>"The Dartmouth also gets its hands on similar numbers for the University of Virginia, and finds that only 2 percent of students admitted early applied for financial aid. Two percent! Both Dartmouth and UVA had binding, early decision last year, but UVA just dropped its program. Dartmouth's outgoing gatekeeper, Karl Furstenberg, says they're staying the course for now."</p>
<p>Dean J, if this number is indeed correct, then I withdraw all my early objection to ending ED at Virginia.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Dean J, if this number is indeed correct, then I withdraw all my early objection to ending ED at Virginia.
[/QUOTE]
I believe I posted the numbers earlier in this thread. Of the 947 students admitted during the ED round last year, 20 applied for aid. Only one met the low income standard set by the AccessUVA program, which gives students a full scholarship.</p>
<p>padad and others,</p>
<p>i think the point i've tried to make - and i believe the above quote illustrates my point - there is a difference in applying for financial aid to uva and apply for financial aid at a school like dartmouth. the majority of ED applications to UVa come from instaters. UVa costs around $16,000 a year for instaters. To even get aid to UVa at the price you'd have to be well below the average income of virginia (about $73,000/year for a family of 4) . and since most (not all) high performing students arn't extremely low income - it just makes sense that the majority of applicants don't need aid.</p>
<p>at Dartmouth however, it costs $42,000+ a year. Even if your family makes $100,000+ a year you would have to apply for aid. So if UVa is full of a bunch of rich kids - dartmouth really must be full of a lot of rich kids.</p>
<p>for soccerguy and others,</p>
<p>You probably have already seen this, but if not, this is from the Friday, October 6th edition of The Cavalier Daily.....</p>
<p>Early action's advantages</p>
<p>Robby Colby, Viewpoint Writer </p>
<p>IN RECENT weeks, the University's Office of Admissions decided to do away with its early decision program. Beginning in the fall of 2007, high school students will no longer be able to apply in November if they are certain that the University is the place for them. The Office of Admissions did this in order to broaden the applicant pool and encourage more lower-income students to apply -- a noble effort, to be sure. But in doing so, the University runs the risk of losing well-qualified students who want to choose the University and be done with their application process. </p>
<p>By deferring all applications to the spring, the University forces all of these prospective students to look at other schools in case they are denied admission here. Many students work their whole high school career in order to get into the University; while the lack of an early decision program will not discourage them from applying, it may drain away some of the more promising students through offers of admission at other schools. In no way should the University discourage lower-income applicants; neither should it run the risk of alienating those students who most want to come here. The University should try to walk a middle road by establishing a non-binding early action program through which students can know whether they are accepted or not, but do not have to return a decision until May. </p>
<p>A non-binding early action program would serve as a compromise between the old early decision program and the complete lack of any early admission process. If structured correctly, it would alleviate the major pressures on the early decision program. In an interview, Dean of Admissions John Blackburn stated that the primary reason that lower-income students tend not to apply for early decision acceptance dealt with uncertainty over financial aid. The University already has excellent financial aid services in place through AccessUVa, which "offers loan-free packages for low-income students, caps on need-based loans for all other students, and a commitment to meet 100 percent of need for every student." If the early decision program were turned into an early action program, those students with both a deep desire to attend the University and questions about its affordability could gain acceptance, then see financial aid options before having to commit to the University. </p>
<p>This would also allow those lower-income applicants most set on attending the University to spend their time working on merit scholarship applications rather than on applications for other colleges. In one stroke the early action program would leave itself open to those who most want to attend it while also remaining flexible for those who do not. </p>
<p>An early action plan would also help those students to whom early decision currently appeals. Many people work themselves to the bone academically in high school with the direct aim of attending the University. Almost 30 percent of each class comes from early decision, bringing each year a significant group of students who expressly want to attend only the University. These are the students most excited about coming here, and it would be folly to allow such a significant portion of our prospective students to explore other options if they themselves do not wish to do so. </p>
<p>While a large drop-off in the number of enthusiastic students is unlikely at the University (especially given the low in-state tuition rates), in the same way that dropping early decision might encourage more lower-income students to apply, it might equally lead a few students away simply by giving them other options. Here also an early action plan would help by allowing those students who are dead set on attending the University to apply, receive their decision and, if they so choose, to be finished with the college application process. </p>
<p>An early action program would also alleviate what Blackburn considers the other major flaw with the early decision process: honors programs and the like. An early action program would allow students who believe they have the potential to get into honors programs at other schools, or the Echols Scholar program at the University to delay matriculation until they know all their options. Thus, an early action program would continue to attract those students most interested in the University, while also providing the flexibility needed by lower-income applicants.</p>
<p>While SVA3 has been a great poster and always had something of value to add to every post I've read, this is one time I have to disagree. Of course reasonable people can always disagree without being disagreeable. And SVA3 is bright enough to come back that my comment is just the exception that proves the rule. That said: My son did ED UVA. With a perfect 800 SAT in Verbal, and pefect SAT II 800s he was not going to have any difficulty getting anywhere (especially with the "Bank of Dad" covering costs). But dealing with all the bureacratic hoops and paperwork that now comprise the college admission process (and YES it was easier back in the 60's when all that was asked was your SSN and GPA and transcript) and the prospect of waiting until Spring to see how the archons of higher education had sat in judgement on him, he chose the Battlestar Galatica equivalent of "Frack you" and went with UVA ED. So by early December he knew what was what iwith enough time to cut and paste an application for the PC ivies that have RD if need be. Yeah his safety schools with Early Admission all had said yes too, but if you know what school you want, and that school is UVA, why be punished?<br>
But as I commented on another thread in this UVA forum, the decision by UVA management to eliminate ED on PC grounds will encourage students who otherwise would have been turned off by the stereotype of UVA as a preppy conservative bastion. And diversity is a great thing. But count me in as a skeptic on the wisdom of eliminating ED as otherwise my son may have been tempted to go elsewhere..</p>
<p>I want to be sure to be an equal opportunity spoiler, so in addition to my comments about SVA3, let me directly address Dean J's apolgia. Don't you think that a student with dynamite SATs, a GPA over 4, community service, intership for a Congressman, etc etc. who had the luxury of visiting college campuses actually can make up their mind before the 5 step process articulated? ED is no more unfair than the entire educational system within the United States it is just an additional option that is now deemed non=PC. If UVA really wants to be "fair", then increase pure MERIT scholarships instead of acquiesing to the FFSA rubric of penalizing workers who buy the 3 for $10 ties instead of Hermes so that they can save for college tuition.</p>
<p>Yeah, the real problem is that UVA doesn't give out merit scholarships and instead we have tons of random 'casteen scholars' and the like. UVA has the money to give out merit scholarships- they just choose not to do so.</p>
<p>I was also an ED applicant, and I was in the same position basically as your son. I had initially considered applying to other schools around the area like Duke and Georgetown, but I opted for UVA ED in the end and ended up getting Echols. At the same time, about 6+ people from my school went for UVA ED because they could afford it and they wanted to get into the best school they could, so they used ED to get them an extra edge in the application process. That, I think, isn't so good for UVA.</p>
<p>Charm, as it is, the University does not give out any merit scholarships. That must change if they wish to give top applicants an incentive to matriculate.</p>
<p>Yeah, the closest thing I can think of students receiving money for merit would be the Echols research grant... which is a pathetic 500 dollars max</p>
<p>sv3a, those aren't scholarships - they're research grants. Big difference.</p>
<p>I know, and it's the only time UVA will pony up some money to their admits based on merit. I didn't say they were scholarships</p>
<p>Got to say, I was a little nervous because out of all the posters, SVA3 and Cavalier302 always seem to get the best of "flames" and maybe, just maybe I had a little too much wine on the eve of my 59th birthday before I posted my rant about ED.<br>
So sound like consensus that UVA needs to balance the scales here. Eliminating ED should also mean starting meaningful MERIT scholarships and not the token $500 research Echols . I mean, c'mon at my son's large diverse high school (no names, but "remember the TITANS" _) the caucasian honor student scholarship for college was $500 and that was the lowest of the low.<br>
The elimination of ED means that in the future, no UVA student can have a nice Christmas holiday, a stress free New Year's Eve, or a Spring focused on closing out high school. No, now they all have to sit and wait for the RD. And cut to the chase: the poor parents have months of fear and anxiety and second/third guessing: should I have fallen for those seductive expensive college counsellor/admissions specialist expensive consultants? Why oh Why did I let my kid write his own essays without anybody's help?
what was I thinking that I would not pay for bogus SAT prep classes?
Instead of feeling vindicated in early december that Wow, being honest and having my kid do his/her own application really worked.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Early Admissions Loophole</p>
<p>When several elite universities announced this fall that they were eliminating early admissions programs, they were showered with praise for their commitment to ending the special advantages some applicants had over others. </p>
<p>The universities themselves stressed the issue of equity. Harvard University boasted of creating a “single, later admissions cycle.” Princeton University talked about a “single admission process.” The University of Virginia said it wanted to send a message that “the playing field is level for all.” All three universities said applications would be due in early January and decisions would be announced in early April.</p>
<p>But the playing field still has a bit of a slant. All three universities plan to have some athletes apply early and to notify some of them early — months in advance of other applicants — about whether they are going to get in. While the information will fall just short of a formal admissions offer, some applicants will be told that as long as they keep their grades at current levels, they will be assured admission.</p>
<p>. . . .</p>
<p>At North Carolina and Virginia, the process involves the admissions office telling the coaches about the chances of an applicant getting in, and the coaches may share that information with the recruited athletes.</p>
<p>Jack Blackburn, dean of undergraduate admissions at Virginia, said that no changes were planned in the way athletes are evaluated there now that early decision will no longer be offered as an option. Virginia looks at “pre-applications” as early as the summer before an athlete’s senior year in high school. The pre-application will include a transcript, SAT scores, information about the high school attended, and a statement by the Virginia coach. </p>
<p>Based on that review, coaches will be told that the student will be admitted if grades are maintained, stands no chance at admission or is a “yes, but.” As examples of the latter category, Blackburn said that coaches may be told that a given student would be admitted with another year of math, or if foreign language isn’t dropped during the senior year of high school.</p>
<p>An advantage of these early reviews is that Virginia can influence the choices a student makes in the last year of high school, Blackburn said.</p>
<p>He added that while he may tell a coach that a given student will be admitted, the coach may or may not share that information with the applicant. If the applicant is a coach’s third choice for a specific slot on a team, the coach may first find out whether the first or second choices can get in and accept Virginia’s offer. In other cases, Blackburn said, the applicant is so strong that he or she will be admitted regardless of a coach’s needs.</p>
<p>In other cases, applicants other than athletes may get an early read on whether they will be admitted, and this practice will also continue, Blackburn said. About 600 of the 6,000 applicants Virginia admitted this year received letters in January through March, well before the formal notification period, telling them that their chances were very good and encouraging them to get any information they needed. Such letters go out to those at the top of the pool — either academically or for other reasons, such as adding diversity to the class, Blackburn said. He said that the only case in which such an applicant would get rejected would be if he or she had an academic record that deteriorated during the senior year of high school.
[/Quote]
</p>