It's the teacher's fault.

College Confidential Community
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<p>When a student doesn't learn, I think it's the teacher's fault, not necessarily the student's. It's the teacher's job to make the subject interesting and open to questions. When the teacher fails to make the environment interesting by droning on and on, and expecting the students to sit there like attentive young folks that they are not, the teacher should not expect much. </p>

<p>I know some particular teachers that get so absorbed in teaching for the state tests that they tend to ignore a student's question or answer it as if it wasn't important. And these are good questions that open the floor to interest..to a potential new discussion. And when students aren't interested, they're obviously going to prioritize other things that should not be above education, but actually are in their lives. I know several capable intelligent students that slack off because the classes are so un-stimulating. And usually the top of the class is not necessarily intelligent, but just puts interest in the class and makes an effort, whether it's boring or not. And I also think that when the teachers don't encourage the students to learn and adopt the "it's you shut up and listen or go to the principal's office" attitude and actually show less confidence in the class, then the students are apt to do worse.</p>

<p>I was thinking about this during one of these un-stimulating classes today and I really do think that teachers are not helping as much as they should to get the students interested in an education. I know right now if it weren't for my parents to struggle so hard to get that education and to get to America, despite internal problems in the family, then I might've very well been in the streets right now in a foreign country with no knowledge of anything whatsoever sniffing on glue. The teachers didn't and don't encourage me to go "to and beyond" the scope of potential learning..rather they try to stick to the same method they've been doing for umpteen years ..</p>

<p>If a student wants to skip another year of math for example, there is so much opposition. It was my parents that encouraged me to go and do something with life..my parents are the reason I'm here right now on collegeconfidential.com. Most of my teachers in the past were not dedicated to the job or did not encourage students to explore life and its surprises. I don't know if that is the case with you and your past years of schooling..but I realize sadly that it has been for me. And I know it took quite a while for my parents to get that interest out of me..and I see that so many times they probably wanted to give up but they still persisted! For a long time, I was not really interested in academics at all. And I still know some people who take what they have for granted..but as the wise people say..most people don't realize the oppurtunity they have until it goes. And it's happened with me, as with most people..but thankfully I still have some time to do something incredible if I really wanted to. Just something to think about.</p>

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<p>ahhh, saroah, I know just what you mean. Yup</p>

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<p>Yeah, I agree that a teacher's main purpose is to stimulate interest in the subject. If they can't do that, students often don't find the motivation to learn the material.</p>

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<p>I'm glad you two agree. Maybe that's just the problem with these below-standard American students. You see all the foreigners getting all the As and all of the high paying jobs, like physicians and lawyers and so many things. And Americans aren't doing anything about it. It's not a totally bad thing, I mean I'm foreign..but just where in the system did these Americans go wrong? They have the resources..but I guess there's simply not enough motivation. I KNOW several several students who could be the best of the best, but no one motivated them over the years..no one pushed them to be just what they could be. And it's really a shame because these students deserve a chance but they're ushered in these poor educating schools where no one has enough time or energy it seems to help them out a bit. But anyone can make enough time if they really cared. </p>

<p>I know one girl who seems to worship the idea that foreigners are just so smart "naturally"..but I constantly tell her that is where she's exactly wrong. The foreigners, the immigrants..they know how it is out there in the brutal world ..that's why they lunge for these oppurtunities when they see them, no matter how small they are. If you live a harsh life and see some light at the end, you're obviously going to work so darn hard so you don't have to repeat what you witnessed. It took so long for my parents to drill this very idea in my head..because I had it easy. I mean, I came here when I was one, and I only occasionally visit outside the US. But for the others, it's hard to see just what might happen if you don't keep up without actually being under those circumstances or even seeing the reality with your own eyes.</p>

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<p>No, I don't agree: The teacher can affect the self-esteem of students, but beyond that I think it's the student who has to learn for himself/herself. A dull class just makes the student less motivated. So maybe it's not fault of the teacher, but rather ineffective teaching ability..?</p>

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<p>i think that it can be partially the teacher and partiallt the class. In the long run however, blaming others isn't gonna help anyone.</p>

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<p>You do realize that the students who visit this board are highly motivated bright students who love learning right? Many kids in our schools don't care and don't do the work. When a student refuses to learn the teacher can't force them. But yes bright students do get ripped off with the idea of No Child Left Behind and how everyone should learn the same things and no one should be ahead, but what about those of us who want to learn more?</p>

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<p>Okay, I have 2 classes. Same students. One class has an incredible teacher who really motivates the students. I mean, she really really wants the best for these kids. If there's a problem, you would have no trouble asking her for help. She pushes these kids to do their best and you can SEE that she has faith in them. And some of these students have no real idea to succeed in life. Usual students who have never really done well in school. And these students do well. Sometimes they do better than the kids that are at the top of the class. This is considered one of the more difficult classes too, chemistry. She varies her teaching methods to keep the class interested. She makes sure the students know what exatly they are doing. She asks us if we should move on, if we really understand the material or not. And we give her an honest answer. If the students seriously did not care, then obviously we'd still be on chapter 1 because she doesn't move on until everyone is comfortable.</p>

<p>Then you have class #2. Same students. The teacher really doesn't have faith in the class, making some comments that are unnecessary. She's been using the exact same teaching method for years and years. I swear 1 girl in this class actually did raise her hand and told her that these "notes" simply don't help on the tests.."what should we do to study?".
The teacher responded by saying that it's too bad the notes don't help because you're supposed to do the learning on your own. If anyone has a question while she teaches the class (biology), she may answer it in a huff and continues to rush through the notes. Or sometimes she says "I don't know" and moves on. </p>

<p>If someone asked a question the teacher didn't know in class #1, she will go to some source, maybe the internet, during class and finds the answer. I feel like I've learned so much more and retained more in class #1 because I want to work, as does the rest of the class. When you have a like for the teacher, you have less inclination to disappoint him/her. </p>

<p>Also, with class #2, sometimes we receive the tests back and the class will dispute an answer. The teacher will say "well that's the answer" and that's it! Is she too lazy to look up the answer? Or she doesn't want to admit she's wrong? Or maybe too lazy to change the grades, which will probably be the first thing to come out if she did admit she was wrong?</p>

<p>You have the same students who are doing well in a more diffcult course actually FAILING the easier course!!
You know the students could do well if they wanted to..but who wants to do well in a class where the teacher herself doesn't seem to care?</p>

<p>I'm not exaggering too. This is just 1 of the examples I see that are present at my school. I am serious, you have the exact same kid who is making an A or B in chemistry making a D or F in biology. And being in both classes and trying to excel in both, no matter how un-stimulating, I and many others see chemistry as the more difficult course.</p>

<p>And you know..the biology teacher will "quit teaching" from time to time if the class is too loud. And why is the class loud? Because she's not gaining the interest of the students. I swear she told one kid to just go to the principal's office and he protested that he wanted to listen. And what does she say? "You're failing anyway, it's not like you care". Well gosh, I wonder, why doesn't he care?</p>

<p>So many students see chemistry and biology as both equally "boring". But here is a golden example where the teacher MOTIVATED the students to learn..and you see positive results. Biology can be very interesting too..but there is no motivation there. Chemistry can also be boring. But it's a generally well-liked class. If the teacher can keep order and hold the interests of the students at the same time, then bingo, that's success, even if everyone didn't come out with A+. They still learned something and they had fun while doing it.</p>

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<p>ahhhh, biology teachers, can anyone else personify sadistic better? I think not. Then again, my bio teacher is also a gym teacher, so yeah, she sucks.</p>

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<p>We have kids at my school who are juniors still taking freshman English. That can't be the teachers fault. IF you are arguing about a grade then quit whining. A B+ is ok once in a while. You can even get a C and still be alive. I learned a heck of a lot more getting a C+ in Chem last year that I ever have in a class I got an A in.</p>

<p>Yes the teacher makes a difference but in the end it is up to the students. Sometimes you will get a teacher who doesn't care and who hates his or her job or teenagers or maybe just 1 student but believe me unless there is blatant hatred you will learn alot from not getting an automatic A. An unmotivated lazy low ability student can still fail even if they have a wonderful ennthusiastic teacher who loves their job.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
When a student refuses to learn the teacher can't force them.

[/quote]
Okay, you're right. But what I think is wrong here is when the students are capable of learning..and sometimes they even ask questions..but the teachers don't respond. They take the questions as if they weren't important when these are the very same questions that start interesting discussions that get the whole class interested. And this is where you might see some students start to speak up..state their views.

[quote]
but what about those of us who want to learn more?

[/quote]

Well you see, when the teacher is trying to shove all of this information down uninterested souls' throats..no one will learn anything. And the smarter kids who got that "head start" are incredibly bored. We have standardized tests to keep students up to par, but it will be even more difficult to keep the students up to par when you don't have that initial interest. And then those "smarter" students may even lose interest in the class.

[quote]
IF you are arguing about a grade then quit whining.

[/quote]
Honey I'm not arguing about any grade here. As I said before, I'm foreign. Why the hell would a foreign person care if the other students weren't also excelling? I really think there is a problem here that needs to be addressed. There are many people trying so hard to help others, especially in this education lacking area, but there are no solutions. No one is getting smarter. Schools are desperately trying to keep these new students where they should be, but nothing is happening.

[quote]
An unmotivated lazy low ability student can still fail even if they have a wonderful ennthusiastic teacher who loves their job.

[/quote]
Okay, again this is right. Of course you won't have every single student passing. But, being a student tutor, I think I really see that some of these kids have something but no one is getting to that potential. I live in a rural area where not many students are motivated to go to college. Some not even motivated to wait till 16 to drop out. But I've worked with some of these people, and honest to goodness, I can see some interest. It feels great to encourage a failing student who previously didn't care, to go and do something meaningful with their life. Because they see that there really is a purpose. I think that we still need continous motivation though, to keep these students interested. Of course not all teachers are like my or intoxicatednight's biology teacher. But I see this with other teachers too. And I think, in general, that we need more stimulation. Maybe this is just with my school though..you probably won't see what I'm describing in those magnet schools. But there are probably more students in these schools like the one I currently attend than in those magnet schools where all attention is in fact focused on the students.</p>

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<p>No matter how smart the students are, if the teacher doesn't present the material in an interesting, and more importantly coherent way, the class will be miserable.</p>

<p>I think one major problem is that a lot of teachers try way to hard to invent overly "fun" ways of teaching their classes, and put a lot of emphasis on projects and such, but give little attention to the nitty-gritty of it. They don't seem to understand that without a solid foundation in the basics, any abstract application will be totally lost on the student. </p>

<p>Some also try to make everything easy to digest, in the process ignoring huge chunks of what should be covered. The burden is on the teacher to present the material well, but on the students to learn what's given to them</p>

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<p>I hate teacherssome exceptions</p>

<p>I think they are the stupid asses and biatches</p>

<p>I hate them so much.</p>

<p>Yes I completely agree with sarorah. 100%.</p>

<p>Some teachers don't even care about students. They're just there for the money. They don't give a cra p if a student is failing. they usually say: "just go study" IT'S NOT LIKE THAT!!! Some don't even offer help!
My maths teacher is the ONLY teacher I've ever had that offers help outside school times.</p>

<p>I think we should just have knowledge injections that we inject in our brains.</p>

<p>** I hate teachers **</p>

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<p>I tried to read this thread, but they didn't have a cliffnotes version, so I stopped.</p>

<p>A++</p>

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<p>"I hate teachers"</p>

<p>I've got news for you...teachers hate you too! Some are just going through the motion of teaching in order to earn a paycheck and service credits toward their retirement. And after having to deal with students like you for 20-30 years, who can blame them!</p>

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<p>lol actually teachers like me because i earn points by raising my hand in class and answering their stupid pathetic questions with my nice clean knowledgeable voice: "cellulose wall". then they say with a dull voice: "excellent. good answer jane." and i just sit there with a big fake grin thinking "go eat shlt"</p>

<p>After they lose their interest in teaching, they should just retire or get a new job because students should not go through their happy lives with the old hags who hate students.</p>

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<p>Good point ctrain.
It's good that the teachers are showing some effort, even if it's through some "overly fun" project. Of course no one is perfect, and there is a lot of stress on the teacher to cover quite a bit of material. But he/she needs to show some initiative and not shun the person who asks the interesting questions, or just focus on the students that already know the material to make his or her job 'easier'. I know it may be difficult, but when everyone is included, everyone learns, and some people even become interested to learn new material faster, and not forced to learn the old material. Because that way, you're not getting anywhere. </p>

<p>I didn't mean for this to be declared a "I hate my teachers" thread because they really are trying..but I thought others should see that some are definently not putting in as much effort as they could. Even if you hate your job, it's still your<a href="teacher's">/i</a> responsibility to teach the students in a nice manner where they will be interested to learn. Even if a doctor hated his/her job, it's still *their responsibility to apply their knowledge, diagnose the problem, and prescribe the medicine. If you signed up for the job, you need to take it to heart or find another job.</p>

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<p>If students are so "intelligent" then why can't they just go with the flow in a "non-stimulating" classroom environment and make best with what they have. Not everything in life is going to be stimulating - have your "intelligent" friends themselves. Instead of *****ing the whole damn time, why don't they just do their work quietly and move on. We've all had "bad" teachers, but we've gotten through them.</p>

<p>And claiming it's completely the teacher's fault for when a student doesn't learn has got to be the most ignorant statement I've heard in a long time. If a student has his or her mind set on not learning, then unless you put a gun to his or her head he or she simply will not care about what is going on in school. It's that simple. No BS about how if the teacher was amazing the student would learn better or anything. All those claims are complete BS from people who have no idea how these students think. If a student wants to be incessantly lazy or whatever, nothing outside of a individual change is going to change that person. So who's the real intelligent one here - you're friends who are so academically smart but truly can't deal with a "bad" teacher, or me, who can deal with one and move on. Sometimes you guys gotta be movers and shakers in life, and complaining about or slacking off in a class that is, as I will say bluntly, "beneath you" because the teacher is "bad" surely doesn't classify you as such.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And claiming it's completely the teacher's fault for when a student doesn't learn has got to be the most ignorant statement I've heard in a long time. If a student has his or her mind set on not learning, then unless you put a gun to his or her head he or she simply will not care about what is going on in school.

[/quote]
Okay, crypto, I'm not going to sit here and argue. Believe what you want to believe. What you said is what millie pretty much said and I already responded. I told you that I, myself, didn't give a darn about school if it wasn't for my parent's constant pushing. And I told you, I've worked with some failing students who really aren't that stupid, but when they work with someone who cares a little then they're kinda motivated to do better. </p>

<p>I talked with another teacher's daughter about this, and she said that is the same thing she sees. I could tell you the name of a guy who really did fail a year and misbehaves..but you will only see that he misbehaves in those classes where the teacher did not put much effort..where only a handful of the class came out with a passing grade. </p>

<p>Heck, my own brother is the same way. He knows how to do the work and it's easy for him, but he's unmotivated to do the work and that's why he makes Cs and Bs in the dull classes. I mean..come on, the kid got an 1150 in 7th grade with no studying at all. He's not stupid. But unless the class is a little stimulating, then he's apt to do bad. </p>

<p>
[quote]
or me, who can deal with one and move on.

[/quote]
Okay, good for you, it's great that you can still succeed with a bad teacher. My mom tells me I should do the same thing, and I really try to. But some students can't and it's really a shame, in my opinion, that the teachers could just give a tiny more bit of effort.</p>

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<p>well said sarorah, i applaud that. =]</p>