My son is trying to make a decision on where to study accounting. IU, SMU, and UT have made his short list.
He’s indecisive so, we thought getting some opinions outside our family might be helpful.
UT is in state for us. SMU and IU have offered large scholarships and honors programs.
Thanks for any input.
If he wants to live/work in TX, I’d give the nod to UT-Austin. Otherwise, I’d go with either UT or IU.
Has he visited the schools? Does he have any preference? What exactly does the IU honors program give him (it varies greatly school to school)? Is there a meaningful price difference?
He has visited IU and SMU officially and UT unofficially. He’s got an official business visit for UT scheduled. Right now, he has no clear preference.
I’d have to double check but, I think IU’s honors is university-wide and not business specific with a housing option and various speakers. I don’t think it gives registration priority.
There is a clear money difference favoring UT but, he still has a couple of outstanding scholarship apps that could make the schools equal, excluding travel costs.
Unless you can get SMU or IU cheaper than UT or he really is a bad fit for Austin, I would say UT.
If he is thinking public accounting, the big firms recruit at all three. For the price UT is very hard to beat. I am sure you are aware that their accounting is highly regarded within the industry. Not sure why you would pay more unless it is just a bad fit. And I know that Austin is NOT for everyone but then I would be recommending A&M unless the poor fit is related to size.
Well there is a HUGE difference between SMU and UT.
SMU is 5k in size and UT Austin is 50k in size. My D hated UT Austin - way too big for her. However, my H loved it. So your son should definitely visit and decide.
Also, is he okay with being a number at UT Austin? UT Austin will push your son out in practically every class (weed out). My H graduated from the business school and he said the business school pushed out over more than 2/3rds of their students. SMU is the opposite. They dont’ want to push you out. Instead they want to help you get there.
My son attended SMU so our family has seen both. It is a matter of preference. Do you want to be in smaller classrooms at SMU and have easy access to professors? Or do you want to stand in line for an hour to get 5 minutes of the professors time?
Personally I think SMU is a smarter choice for UG and UT Austin would be best for grad school. Your child will get access to the professors, smaller classes, and there are zero TA’s that teach at SMU whereas TA’s definitely teach at UT. You get what you pay for.
My son was offered everything at SMU from internships, co-ops, TA (tutoring), etc. He has done really well at SMU.
It is really important to pick the school that fits your child. They will know which school is best by visiting. Only your son knows which is the best for him.
Happy students are successful students! Congrats on your son getting a merit scholarship to SMU. That isn’t easy to get. 
@newjersey17 When did your husband graduate from UT?
The 80’s.
I will add that we do have a family history at UT (husband and I are alums) and SMU (too many connections to list). You can all imagine that there are some strong opinions over here. My goal in posting is to show DS outside views of the schools.
DS came up with his list by asking where the big firms recruit from. Landing a job at one of them is his goal.
Thanks for the feedback so far!
SMU business might be a better option is he knows he wants to stay in Dallas. Otherwise, it would be UT, IMHO. But he definitely needs to visit. Is he for sure in at McCombs?
Well that shouldn’t be an issue for any of these three schools. The real issue is which college will your son thrive at? If your son hates UT he probably won’t do well. He won’t be motivated. He may even drop out. The drop out rate is very high. Over 50 percent. Picking the right college is all about FIT. Not prestige or job placement if your son does well he’ll be able to get a job. My son and his wife were both offered jobs by the top companies in the world. It’s because they loved SMU. They both were highly motivated and hung out with their favorite professors daily. In fact one of the companies usually does not hire from SMU and they did because they were highly sought after and still are.
So forget what everyone says and have your son pick the college that fits him. It’s so true. Happy students are the most successful.
@Youdon’tsay Yes, he is accepted to McCombs but, he did not get BHP. Are you aware of any differentiating factors for the regular, non BHP, business program?
@newjersey17 We do love the recruiting out of SMU! I completely agree about the fit and we completely support a “fit” based decision. He has a very strong academic profile out of a selective prep school so, dropping out at UT isn’t much of a risk. The top 7-8% rule admits students of all different levels and schools across the state are definitely not equal in college prep.
The problem is he doesn’t show a preference. We jokingly told him he could just stay home if he can’t decide. Leaving home is one decision he is ready to make! I’ll share your comments. Maybe, the personal touch will help.
DS is looking for a reason to pick one over another. So far, he likes them all. He could see himself at any of them. I think it’s a touch of Analysis Paralysis.
I’m an IU Kelley School alum. If it were my child, and he didn’t show a strong prefernce, I would keep him home. I don’t know UT or SMU business school reputation, but it sounds like they are on par with IU. No need to go so far away and spend all that extra money, when you have just as good choices in your own state. And, although I am a diehard IU lover…the winters stink!
From USNWR data:
UT has an 81 percent 6 year graduation rate, SMU has a 77 percent 6 year graduation rate.
UT has a 94 percent freshman retention rate, SMU has a 90 percent freshman retention rate.
So there is no 50 percent drop out rate at UT and in fact people stay and graduate in higher numbers than SMU but as you say that isn’t really a concern for you.
As for class size, SMU does offer more personalized class sizes:
UT has an 18:1 student faculty ratio, SMU has 11:1
UT has 37 percent of its classes under 20 students, SMU has 59 percent under 20 percent
UT has 25 percent of its classes with more than 50 people, SMU is only 7 percent
Can he visit UT and sit in one one of the big lectures to get a sense of whether he is okay with it?
One thing that is a big difference to me is the dominance of Greek life. At SMU, Greeks make up 38 percent of the undergraduates while at UT it is closer to 11 percent. That means if you are not into the frat scene, SMU can be tough (but does not have to be) but at UT you have to find “your people” through a lot of different avenues which can also be tough. Does he know older students at either school he could spend a weekend with?
http://www.txhighereddata.org/Interactive/Accountability/UNIV_Complete_PDF.cfm?FICE=003658
Per this report the graduation rate for 4 years was only 52% at UT Austin.
My son and his wife both graduated from SMU in 4 years with ease. They didn’t have problems signing up for classes which I’ve heard is hard to do at a large school like UT. In fact I’ve been told don’t expect to graduate in 4 years from UT due to limited space. If you have AP credits that will help a lot.
SMU advisors kept them on track to graduate on time. They even promised me they would help my son graduate on time from day 1. I was impressed they said that.
My son had three advisors: one for his Freshman year, one for his major and one for his career. They were great.
They also did not join the Greek life. There was no pressure to do so. It wasn’t an issue.
No school is perfect but for sure have your son pick the school that fits him. Visiting is key. Maybe you ought to visit again and he’ll know which is the best for him. Good luck!
The drop out rate across the country is astounding. Read this. http://www.collegeatlas.org/college-dropout.html
70 percent of Americans will study at 4 year colleges but less than 2/3 will graduate. It also says 30 percent drop out the first year. It’s crazy.
That’s why I’m saying its so important to find a college that fits and that makes you happy. You have a better chance of staying and graduating.
My son saw this with his 4 friends in HS. Three dropped out from state schools after just one semester. The 4th friend who was at a private school had a terrible GPA but he was going to try to fix it. My son was so shocked they dropped out. Apparently it is more common than you think.
The inverse of graduation rates is not a drop out rate. If you look at a 6 year graduation rate versus a four year you catch schools with higher percentage of engineers and a higher percentage of students who have to work to pay for school. 4 year graduation rates are highly correlated with student SES. There are a higher percentage of rich kids at SMU than UT. Regardless, OP has said he isn’t worried about his son graduating in four years.
OP, one thing to look at is that if your son wants to work for the Big Four, he’ll want to meet the 150 hour requirement to sit for the CPA exam. Once you complete the bachelor’s requirement you get an MSA at SMU or an MPA at UT. You pay graduate rates at that point so compare the cost of the full 150 hours. At UT, the BBA/MPA program is acompetitive admission process so the acceptance rate to it is a factor to consider. At SMU, you’d want to know how many of their BBA graduates get into the MSA program. SMU has a “fast track” MSA option that cuts it to one year.
@conmama Thank you for your opinion. IU has done the best recruiting job of the three schools. (Lots of mail, special visit invitations, even an IU flag was sent to S) Your words helped him see that it may make more sense to attend a closer school. The rankings consistently list UT as the number one program for accounting but, the school is a machine. They’ve sent S 2-3 emails since his December acceptance and only one attempted to sell the school.
Good point on the 5th year Master’s @gettingschooled
@gettingschooled I agree that it is worth checking out the MSA options. Now that the CPA requires 150 credits, many schools have a 1 year MSA designed specifically for students who need the one extra year. Many colleges auto-admit their students with a GPA over a designated threshold. And there are some great one year MSA programs that take outside students so there are many options. For example my S went to Fordham undergrad and got a one year MSA at Notre Dame (he was an auto-admit to Fordham’s program but applied to and got into ND).
@PokeyJoe I would not get too caught up into which admissions office spends more time recruiting your son. After he starts school your son will have no further dealings with admissions. Focus on the things that will impact him during his four years at college. IMO the main question to be answered is if there is something about IU’s honors program that outweighs the school’s distance and the general familiarity with UT among TX employers (if your S wants to settle in TX).
https://www.tscpa.org/eweb/pdf/TodaysCPA/2013/WhereTexasCPAsFromJanFeb2013.pdf
Here is a study published by Texas Society of CPAs on CPA exam pass rates by school. UT and A&M have the highest pass rates, but it is hard to tell how much of this is due to those schools having high selectivity in the admissions process. If they really weed students out of the accounting program then that could be a factor in the higher pass rates as well. If they are placing a higher percentage of students at Big Firms that provide more resources to graduates to pass the exam that might contribute as well.
https://www.tsbpa.state.tx.us/php/fpl/unvcompare.php
The previous study I linked to was for an 8 year period. Here is a tool that allows you to look for specific quarters so you can look at more recent data. Same caveats apply as before but this will have the additional issue of who might be testing in a specific quarter.