<p>"nearly 1500 valedictorians"; 41% of them were accepted.</p>
<p>Thanks. Good story.</p>
<p>what about Princeton what is it famous for?</p>
<p>Princeton? What's that?</p>
<p>You are kidding right? The name brand is Harvard the Quality is Princeton!</p>
<p>"Princeton Report: Students Reject Us If Harvard or Stanford Accepts Them"</p>
<p>Byerly,
That story is over 20 YEARS old!
That said, I don't think much has changed... but still...
a 20 year old article?!?!?</p>
<p>This story could have been written yesterday, and the essential numbers wouldn't have varied much.</p>
<p>The pecking order, particularly at the top, is fairly rigid - winner-take-all to a large degree.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0001s.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp0001s.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp9901.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/ffp9901.pdf</a></p>
<p>From the 20 year old data that is presumably fairly constant:</p>
<p>270+ chose Harvard over Princeton.
70+ chose Princeton over Harvard.</p>
<p>The most impressive statistic is not that people like H over P. More important is that the bulk of both classes did not get accepted to the other school. This underlines admissions uncertainty and undercuts the notion of a linear hierarchy among the elite schools.</p>
<p>Byerly, is that an updated revealed preference ranking? Some data seems different...</p>
<p>To clear-eyed guy:</p>
<p>bear in mind - the cross admits constituted a number equal to 1/3 of the freshman class at Princeton, and this did not include those who might have been admitted to Princeton but were not admitted to Harvard.
This is a pretty sizeable overlap.</p>
<p>To Filmxoxo17:</p>
<p>Yes, this is a revised and updated version of the RP study dated December, 2005. It was just posted. The earlier study was dated September, 2004.</p>
<p>See my earlier thread on this topic:</p>
<p>I think the data was collected from students in 1999-2000, but I'd guess the general idea is the same.</p>
<p>It's clear that Harvard is at the top of the hierarchy.</p>
<p>I'd still say that the data clearly indicate that a majority of Harvard students did not get accepted to Princeton. Some didn't apply, but I'd guess that a significant chunk (half?) of Harvard's undergrads were rejected by Princeton.</p>
<p>That is absolutely absurd, IMHO. On what do you base such an astonishing claim.</p>
<p>my brother was admitted early decision this year to Princeton. He felt the school offered so much more than Harvard. He prefers NYC to Boston and wanted the ORFE program there. He did not want Wharton because of the crime scene. He did not want Yale New Haven is a dump and he did not want Stanford there is NO community its like going to a gorgeous night school but during the day very very isolated place.
He would rather go to H or Stanford or MIT for grad school he said. But He loved Princeton and felt the college life was best there. Anyone elses thoughts on this. I have not made up my mind where I would like to apply next year.</p>
<p>ps This ORFE engineering program is putting up their own building which they are spending over 20 million on making state of the art in the field sounds pretty progressive to me!</p>
<p>Of course the data doesn't include those who were accepted at P and not at H. However, it also doesn't account those who were accepted at H and not at P (yes, such things do happen). </p>
<p>I think clear-eyed guy's estimate that half of all Harvard undergrads applied and Princeton undergrads were rejected from Harvard. Seems to me that there are a decent number of people who, for whatever reason, didn't apply at all. Additionally, while clearly this isn't a scientific measure, I've met many, many more people who were rejected from Yale than were rejected from Harvard. While my friend at H says she feels that H was most people's first choice, both she and the other freshman from my HS were also Yale rejectees, and I'm sure they aren't the only ones who didn't get into every school they applied to.</p>
<p>I also question whether, even if the preferences of students have remained constants, the number of cross-admits has changed. Admissions have become tougher in the past 20 years, the kid who may have then been an auto-admit wherever he appplied is not a shoe-in anymore.</p>
<p>And this has turned into yet another "which school is better" thread. Its funny how we all debate and argue over what school is the best when we have almost no chance at getting into any of them. Lets focus on getting in, then argue over which is the better decision.</p>
<p>In response to Byerly's presponse to my claim that many Harvard undergrads were rejected by Princeton ("That is absolutely absurd, IMHO. On what do you base such an astonishing claim"):</p>
<p>I base my claim on data you provided:
270+ chose Harvard over Princeton.
70+ chose Princeton over Harvard.</p>
<p>1650 undergraduates per class.</p>
<p>1380 students per class who didn't reject Princeton (1650-270).</p>
<p>I don't know how many people applied to both schools.</p>
<p>Assumption: If 50% who matriculated at H applied to P (825 people applied to both schools), then 34% (825-270=555/1630=34%) of the enrolled Harvard students were rejected by Princeton; 16% (270/1650) were accepted by both but chose Harvard; and 50% of the class was never evaluated by Princeton. In this scenario, we are saying that only 16% of Harvard undergrads got into Princeton; 34% were rejected, and half weren't evaluated. </p>
<p>If you would like to ramp up the number who applied to both schools, you'd increase the percentage of undergrads who were accepted to and who were rejected by Princeton.</p>
<p>Regardless, these data point away from a strict hierarchy of talent/admissions at Princeton and Harvard. You can do similar stats at all elite schools, including comparing Harvard against those further down the academic food chain. Admissions is a bit like finding a needle in a stack of needles, and there are many more very strong candidates than can matriculate at any one college.</p>
<p>I think we can agree that admissions criteria at each of these schools (I'm talking Harvard, Yale, and now Princeton, though not before) is equal. (This isn't directed at anyone, but I think some may be implying that it's not).</p>
<p>Where do you get the idea that "admissions criteria are equal"??</p>