Ivy Athletics: Can they be relevant again in the major sports?

[k_amp_s]

<p>

No, Duke has the higher average SAT/ACT scores for the middle 50%. Northwestern doesn’t publish these stats readily so they are clearly hiding something.

</p>

<p>Again, you are incorrect.</p>

<p>

Duke is superior to Northwestern in every way, even if only slightly. I understand your inferiority complex k&s.

</p>

<p>ring - while it is hardly surprising that you aren’t aware of this, the clear sign/evidence of an inferiority complex is someone who is a braggart about something that he/she has had no part in playing (such as the success of one’s alma mater’s sports teams) and who gains a false sense of satisfaction in arbitrarily putting down others (esp. when they get all the FACTS wrong).</p>

[ring_of_fire_1]

<p>

@k&s

Duke BB has become like ND FB - over-rated by the press and analysts.</p>

<p>They continually get knocked out early in the Tourney, by much lower seeds including a 7th and 11th seeded teams (in fact, it’s been a LONG time since Duke has beaten a higher seeded team in the Tourney).</p>

<p>Again, you are misconstruing the facts, Duke BB hasn’t been relevant in the Tourney for for more than several years, and only once in nearly a decade.</p>

<p>Having said that, Duke still has an enviable program that any other private university would like have, but schools like Stanford and Northwestern just will not do away w/ academic standards for recruits as Duke has (c’mon, even you have to admit that avg. SAT scores in the mid-900s is frankly, embarrassing).

Yes, Duke BB is over rated in the sense that it has failed to make the Final Four in the past five year, but I think the unwarranted media attention is more a byproduct of the success Duke has enjoyed over previous decades such as the 90s when Duke made seven Final Fours in nine years, which has led to the creation of completely unrealistic expectations. They haven’t been relevant in Tourney for more than several years? WHAT! The '99 and '04 teams were two of the best college bball teams of all time and they just fell a little short where it mattered. Duke bball has the MOST wins this decade and have made AT LEAST the Sweet 16 every year but two. They are only human you know.;)</p>

<p>Um, if Stanford and Northwestern could recruit the quality of basketball players that Duke has on its radar year after year, TRUST ME when I say they would sacrifice their “academic standards” and go after these players. Once again, let me repeat that education is not the focus of Duke basketball players and nor should it be. Duke is a launching pad to the NBA for most of them and a Duke degree is just an after thought. Besides, the marginal benefit that these basketball players provide to student life far outweigh the marginal costs induced by their low SAT scores.</p>

<p>

@k&s

Having said that - the key reason why the Duke FB team will improve and make some bowls is b/c of the continually LOWERED academic standards pushed by the admin. in the quest for winning.</p>

<p>I don’t know if I would take pride in winning if my FB program allowed for ONE-THIRD of its recruits to only need to meet the minimum NCAA standards.

I mean as long as they meet minimum NCAA standards, then what is the problem? I don’t think most Duke students care how smart the football players are as long as they win games. That’s what they’re here.</p>

<p>Trust me when I say the rest of the Duke student body has the whole academic part of college well under control.</p>

[Cuse0507]

<p>

They haven’t been relevant in Tourney for more than several years? WHAT! The '99 and '04 teams were two of the best college bball teams of all time and they just fell a little short where it mattered. Duke bball has the MOST wins this decade and have made AT LEAST the Sweet 16 every year but two. They are only human you know.

</p>

<p>Haha please, Duke isn’t even the best basketball program in its own state. :P</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>

Duke has perhaps the most well-respected and cleanest basketball program in the NCAA.

</p>

<p>Uhh, ever hear of UNC?</p>

<p>

Of course the bball players have low SAT scores; they are athletes FIRST and students SECOND.

</p>

<p>Congrats on being the 'Bama of college BB!</p>

<p>

Duke gets the best basketball players in the nation and all of them want to go to the NBA so academic considerations are secondary.

</p>

<p>In that case, Coach K is an overrated coach since his teams have been getting prematurely bounced out of the Tourney for most of this decade to lower seeded teams (many times, significantly lower-seeded teams).</p>

<p>But in reality, Duke hardly gets the “best” BB recruits (Duke recruits tend to get overrated like those for ND FB).</p>

<p>The reason why Duke hasn’t been able to progress in the Tourney recently is b/c there hasn’t been a legit “big-man” presence on the team for years.</p>

<p>And aside from one or two players, the rest of the team tends to be less athletic and a little slow compared to players on major programs.</p>

<p>Basically, Duke lives and dies by the 3.</p>

<p>Yeah, great college BB knowledge there!</p>

[karabee]

<p>

I don’t think most Duke students care how smart the football players are as long as they win games. That’s what they’re here.

</p>

<p>I’m not a Duke student, but I am a Vandy student, and I know a boy from my HS who was recruited to play football there, despite being dumb as rocks. That DOES bother me. There are plenty of people who are both smart enough to play football and attend the school–one football AND baseball superstar at my school graduated number 10 in the class, and I’m sure there’s many more out there like him.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>

They haven’t been relevant in Tourney for more than several years? WHAT! The '99 and '04 teams were two of the best college bball teams of all time and they just fell a little short where it mattered. Duke bball has the MOST wins this decade and have made AT LEAST the Sweet 16 every year but two. They are only human you know.

</p>

<p>2005 — No. 5 Michigan State 78, No. 1 Duke 68 </p>

<p>2006 — No. 4 L.S.U. 62, No. 1 Duke 54 </p>

<p>2007 — No. 11 V.C.U. 79, No. 6 Duke 77 </p>

<p>2008 — No. 7 West Virginia 73, No. 2 Duke 67 </p>

<p>2009 — No. 3 Villanova 77, No. 1 Duke 54</p>

<p>That’s failing to make the Elite 8 for FIVE straight years by falling to lower-seeded teams.</p>

<p>Since 2001, Duke has NOT defeated a team seeded higher than no. 5 in the Tourney.</p>

<p>In the 8 Tourneys from 2002-2009, Duke has been a 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 6, 2 and 2 seed; and has been eliminated by a lower seeded team SEVEN out of those 8 times.</p>

<p>

I mean as long as they meet minimum NCAA standards, then what is the problem? I don’t think most Duke students care how smart the football players are as long as they win games. That’s what they’re here.

</p>

<p>Nice attitude by the Duke student body (do you even know what the minimum NCAA standards are?).</p>

[ring_of_fire_1]

<p>

@k&s

Uhh, ever hear of UNC?

ESPN would disagree with you.
[Counting</a> down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85 - Men’s College Basketball - ESPN](<a href=“LIVE Transfer Talk: Liverpool eye Guéhi to replace Van Dijk - ESPN”>Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85 - ESPN)
In the 64-team era that started in the 1984-1985 season, Duke has been the most dominant college basketball program period.</p>

<p>

@k&s

Congrats on being the 'Bama of college BB!

Um, except the rest of the Duke student body constitutes a top 10 national student body academically so we can cut the athletes some slack.</p>

<p>

@k&s

In that case, Coach K is an overrated coach since his teams have been getting prematurely bounced out of the Tourney for most of this decade to lower seeded teams (many times, significantly lower-seeded teams).</p>

<p>But in reality, Duke hardly gets the “best” BB recruits (Duke recruits tend to get overrated like those for ND FB).</p>

<p>The reason why Duke hasn’t been able to progress in the Tourney recently is b/c there hasn’t been a legit “big-man” presence on the team for years.</p>

<p>And aside from one or two players, the rest of the team tends to be less athletic and a little slow compared to players on major programs.</p>

<p>Basically, Duke lives and dies by the 3.</p>

<p>Yeah, great college BB knowledge there!

Everyone has their slumps. People forget how god awful UNC was in the late 90s and how bad Indiana and Kentucky have been for god knows how long and these are supposed to be “basketball powerhouses”.</p>

<p>Even in the past 5 years, which is arguably the worst stretch in Duke bball history, Duke has made it to 3 Sweet 16s. Not too shabby.</p>

<p>

@k&s

2005 — No. 5 Michigan State 78, No. 1 Duke 68</p>

<p>2006 — No. 4 L.S.U. 62, No. 1 Duke 54</p>

<p>2007 — No. 11 V.C.U. 79, No. 6 Duke 77</p>

<p>2008 — No. 7 West Virginia 73, No. 2 Duke 67</p>

<p>2009 — No. 3 Villanova 77, No. 1 Duke 54</p>

<p>That’s failing to make the Elite 8 for FIVE straight years by falling to lower-seeded teams.</p>

<p>Since 2001, Duke has NOT defeated a team seeded higher than no. 5 in the Tourney.</p>

<p>In the 8 Tourneys from 2002-2009, Duke has been a 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, 6, 2 and 2 seed; and has been eliminated by a lower seeded team SEVEN out of those 8 times.

Are you honestly this dimwitted? If a team is ranked first going to the tournament, HOW IN THE WORLD IS IT SUPPOSED TO BEAT A HIGHER RANKED TEAM? 1 IS THE HIGHEST SEED. That takes away 4 of those seasons by that logic. The remaining 4 seasons don’t really follow a pattern and it’s tough to live up to expectations when you are seeded #2 and #3 as well. The 2007 tourny result was just a monumental collapse. Hey, it happens.</p>

<p>Basically, you picked an arbitrary set of data points to prove that Duke is overrated. Epic fail on your part. How about the 2001 season when Duke WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP? Conveniently forgot about that didn’t you.</p>

<p>

@k&s

Nice attitude by the Duke student body (do you even know what the minimum NCAA standards are?).

Who cares? We’re still better at Northwestern in everything. Remember when our football team embarrassed your at home? HAHAHAHA.</p>

[monstor344]

<p>If the Ivies pull a Duke/Stanford in terms of recruiting athletes they will surely start winning a lot more but at the same time they risk slightly tarnishing their reputation. Plus, where would the truly scholarly athletes go? And don’t say that they can play at LACs because that would assume that they would all want to go to small colleges.</p>

<p>Oh yeah, and the point remains: Does it really matter? What’s most entertaining is intraleague competition, not interleague. Of course a team with athletes who put sports before academics are going to beat a team that puts academics before sports, and similarly if those 2 teams competed in a math competition the opposite result would occur. I don’t know too much about the core sports, but regarding baseball, there have been some talented players in the Ivies who are currently in the MLB.</p>

[vienna_man]

<p>Georgetown is perhaps the archetype in developing an athletic program that is successful on the field and produces national leaders. While everyone knows about Hoyas like Pat Ewing,Dikembe Mutombo and Alonzo Mourning, the three NCAA final game appearances in the 1980s and 2007’s Final four team, many might be surprised to know of the off the court accomplishments of several Hoya Basketaball players.</p>

<p>As set foth below, several Hoya basketball players are famous purely for their off-court accomplishments:</p>

<p>Brendan Gaughan, who walked onto the basketball squad, is a driver in NASCAR’s Craftsman Truck Series and also raced one season in the Nextel Cup series.
General James L. Jones (SFS '66), USMC, is the former Commandant of the Marine Corps, former Supreme Allied Commander Europe, current Special Liaison to the Mideast peace talks and President Obama’s National Security Advisor.
Paul Tagliabue (C '62), who played for the Hoyas in the early 1960s and was one of the leading rebounders in school history [15], was Commissioner of the National Football League from 1989-2006.
Henry Hyde- (C 1943), Member of Congress from Illinois, former Chairman of House Judiciary Committee. Recipient of U.S. Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian honor granted by the U.S. Government.
Barry Sullivan- (1952 transferred to Columbia)-President, First Chicago Corporation.
William Shea-(C1929), (L1931)-New York Attorney, brought New York Mets to city. Shea Stadium named in his</p>

[vienna_man]

<p>As to the issue at hand, the only way the Ivy League could be relevant at the National level would be to expand its membership to a couple of schools that would boost its almost pathetic basketball attendance (an average of about 3 to 4 thousand per game in 2008) and give it enough media clout to get decent TV contracts. The only two schools that would make sense to add, without sacrificing academics or killing the league with travel costs, would be Georgetown and Duke, and the resulting league would still be way short of ever being nationally competitive in major college football. Georgetown would be loathe to give up its rivalry with Syracuse ($$$) and Duke would be loathe to give up its rivalry with North Carolina ($$$).</p>

[monstor344]

<p>^Adding to the Ivy League just for some basketball revenue? I’ve heard some lucrative ideas before, vienna man, but that’s simply not going to happen.</p>

<p>And like I’ve said before, the Ivies remain the home for athletes who put their academics first but still care deeply about their athletics. If the Ivies started to significantly lower academic requirements to recruit top athletes, it would lose this crowd of scholarly athletes.</p>

[toast_eater]

<p>VM-You might add that Congressman Hyde actually played on Georgetown’s first Final Four team in 1943. To have a future Presidential Medal of Freedom winner guard the best Center at that time (a guy who would anchor something like four or five future NBA Championship teams), George Mikan, is truly the mix of athletics and academics at an Everest type level!</p>

[vienna_man]

<p>Toast Eater- Indeed, I was remiss in not adequately describing the extent of Henry Hyde’s athletic exploits, and I probably should add that the long time CIA Director, George Tenet, a School of Foreign Service grad, lettered in lacrosse while at Georgetown.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>

ESPN would disagree with you.
Counting down the most prestigious programs since 1984-85 - Men’s College Basketball - ESPN.</p>

<p>In the 64-team era that started in the 1984-1985 season, Duke has been the most dominant college basketball program period.

</p>

<p>Outdated (and only takes into account a time period favorable to Duke) - w/ its most recent national championship, UNC has TWO more than Duke, and has won 2 since Duke won their last one.</p>

<p>

Um, except the rest of the Duke student body constitutes a top 10 national student body academically so we can cut the athletes some slack.

</p>

<p>Um, what Stanford and NU do w/ regard to recruits is “cutting athletes some slack”, what Duke does for men’s BB and FB is embarrassing.</p>

<p>And oh, Stanford and NU also have “top-10” student bodies.</p>

<p>

Everyone has their slumps. People forget how god awful UNC was in the late 90s and how bad Indiana and Kentucky have been for god knows how long and these are supposed to be “basketball powerhouses”.</p>

<p>Even in the past 5 years, which is arguably the worst stretch in Duke bball history, Duke has made it to 3 Sweet 16s. Not too shabby.

</p>

<p>A slump lasts for maybe 3-4 seasons. Duke has had one really good season this decade (aside from their national championship in 2001) and even then, they lost to a lower-seeded team.</p>

<p>“Worst stretch in Duke BB history” - LMAO!!</p>

<p>From 1970 to 1974, Duke just barely had a winning record and from 1925 thru 1928 had a losing record.</p>

<p>And oh, in 2007-8 IU was 25-8, 21-11 in 2006-7 and played for the national championship in 2002 - so I don’t know where you get the idea that the Hoosiers have been “bad for so long.”</p>

<p>[Do you really have clue regarding what you are talking about?]</p>

<p>

Are you honestly this dimwitted? If a team is ranked first going to the tournament, HOW IN THE WORLD IS IT SUPPOSED TO BEAT A HIGHER RANKED TEAM? 1 IS THE HIGHEST SEED. That takes away 4 of those seasons by that logic. The remaining 4 seasons don’t really follow a pattern and it’s tough to live up to expectations when you are seeded #2 and #3 as well. The 2007 tourny result was just a monumental collapse. Hey, it happens.

</p>

<p>Talk about dimwittedness - lol!</p>

<p>I’m talking about repeatedly LOSING to lower seeded teams; and besides, Duke in HALF of those years during that 8 year stretch was NOT seeded no.1 - and really, not beating a team seeded higher than 5th in 8 years is pretty sad.</p>

<p>

Basically, you picked an arbitrary set of data points to prove that Duke is overrated. Epic fail on your part. How about the 2001 season when Duke WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP? Conveniently forgot about that didn’t you.

</p>

<p>Uhh, maybe you should get better reading comprehension.</p>

<p>I stated that Duke has been overrated **THIS decade<a href=“how%20is%20that%20arbitrary?”>/b</a> since the 2001 season (and I’m not the only one who thinks so - so does the NYTimes); I wasn’t talking about Duke during the 1980s-1990s.</p>

<p>Btw, I did mention Duke’s 2001 season, so once again, you’re wrong.</p>

<p>

Who cares? We’re still better at Northwestern in everything. Remember when our football team embarrassed your at home? HAHAHAHA.

</p>

<p>Nothing more needs to be said other than you’re WRONG again, but that’s hardly surprising.</p>

[Sparkeye7]

<p>“The 190-cm point guard, who recently completed a four-year stint at Harvard University, is also the first Harvard graduate to join the NBA league in 57 years.”</p>

<p>[First</a> Taiwanese-American basketball player joins NBA - CNA ENGLISH NEWS](<a href=“Error | Focus Taiwan - CNA English News”>http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?Type=aALL&ID=201007220030)</p>

<p>Go Crimson!! lol</p>

[dagny14]

It depends on the sport!! Lacrosse players are definitely turning down big time lax schools- Hopkins, UMD, Notre Dame, Cuse, to attend great Ivy league programs- boys- CPPHY, girls- PP. Some athlete are also turning down Stanford and Duke to attend Ivies- why because the Ivy league and Patrot league are the ONLY two athletic conferences who have rules in place to limit amount of time spent on a sport. Stanford and Duke do NOT- neither does Hop, UVA, etc.

[skieurope]

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