<p>Hey, give her a break–she’s trying to help the Ivies become more famous.</p>
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The Ivies, as well as top Division III schools like Chicago, WUSTL, Williams, or Amherst, are extremely selective in terms of admissions. Any applicant strong enough to get into a school like that should be able to find plenty of other options. Such an applicant could doubtless gain admission to a school with a big athletic scene, if that’s what he or she wanted. </p>
<p>But it’s no secret that the Ivy League, UAA, and NESCAC schools don’t have big athletic scenes. So if an applicant chooses to attend a school like that, then you can reasonably assume that a big athletic scene is probably not one of his or her priorities. </p>
<p>For the most part, the students at these schools do not attach a high value to the size of the athletic scenes. If they did, they would have gone somewhere else.</p>
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<p>That’s true. Clearly they are suffering horribly in admissions because of the lack of a big time sports scene. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>Just for comparison, I checked the Division I Patriot League as well. The Patriot League has athletic ideals that are similar to those of the Ivy League, although Patriot League schools are slightly less academically selective, and do allow a limited number of athletic scholarships.</p>
<p>I counted 13 NCAA Public Recognition awards in football and m/w basketball for the eight Patriot League schools in 2008-09. This is not as high as the Ivy total, but still well above the levels achieved by the six hawkette schools. So I think it’s likely that the Patriot League, as well as the Ivy League, has higher academic standards for high-profile athletes than the schools that hawkette points to as models.</p>
<p>Applicants attend the Ivies DESPITE the fact that they are not athletic powerhouses because they are top-notch schools. No matter how much you love college sports, a student who cares at all about his future isn’t going to turn down Harvard from OU.</p>
<p>I love how some of you assume that Ivy students HAVE A CHOICE in the matter. They really don’t. HYP are the best schools and if you get in, you’ll probably attend. I mean academics is the primary mission of a university after all.</p>
<p>HYP hold a monopoly over high education. They don’t have to do anything and students will still apply in droves. However, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t improve the quality of student life on campus? Don’t they have a RESPONSIBILITY to maximize the enjoyment of the students they enroll? I think the student body can ONLY BENEFIT by having competitive football and basketball teams.</p>
<p>Stanford and Duke aren’t struggling academically and they have a great athletic tradition. You know who I really feel sad for? The prospective Egyptology major who is FORCED to choose Brown over Duke because only the former school has a program in that subject matter EVEN THOUGH he/she desperately wants to attend a place where there is good school spirit and student athletics.</p>
<p>1)And undoubtedly some applicants attend some of those other schools DESPITE their evident overemphasis on athletics , because they are otherwise top notch schools.</p>
<p>2) You might equally feel sorry for someone who is “FORCED” (???) to attend Big Sports U, because only it has [insert unique program] EVEN THOUGH he/she deperately wants to avoid the pollution of this ■■■■■■■■ emphasis on athletics, consequent diversion of resources which he finds disturbing, and the masses of fellow students who are there for that reason, with whom this individual feels he/she may consequently have little in common.</p>
<p>3) I love how some of you assume that Stanford students HAVE A CHOICE in the matter. They really don’t. They are forced to attend Stanford. Once someone turned Stanford down, and he disappeared the next day and has never been heard from again. (???)</p>
<p>4) Perhaps Ivies exercised their RESPONSIBILITY to maximize the enjoyment of THEIR constituents by deliberately choosing NOT to engage in this magnitude of sports scene. At least the preponderant # of said constituents who have posted here seem to be in accordance.</p>
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<p>Forced? What an odd choice of words. As with everything, people make choices and tradeoffs. If he values Egyptology over athletics, he’ll choose Brown. If he values athletics over Egyptology, he’ll choose Duke. Neither of those are “forced.”</p>
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<p>Yet another one-noter! Despite being told repeatedly that what it would take to have competitive football and basketball teams would affect some college cultures negatively, despite being told repeatedly that a spectator-sports-heavy atmosphere is NOT appealing to some people, you and Hawkette still can’t possibly see that there would be any downside whatsoever to your idea of fun being translated into everyone’s.</p>
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<p>Oh, I agree. HYP has simply gone too far in their recruiting of high school students. Here’s some innocent high school student just moseying along and thinking about what colleges he might wish to apply to, and in comes HYP, swooping in and making him go to their schools, even though he’d really rather attend a school with a big athletic scene. It’s shameful. I think the NCAA should investigate these shady recruiting practices.</p>
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<p>These awards are pretty meaningless w/ regard to the academic qualifications of the recruits in the various sports.</p>
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<p>Ring - thanks for proving to everyone, once again, your idiotic commentary.</p>
<p>So THREE conference championships in FB since 1995 is mediocre?</p>
<p>How many does Stanford, much less Duke, have over the past decade or so?</p>
<p>And here’s a partial list of nationally ranked sports at NU over the past few years aside from lax (last year 14 of the 21 varsity sports were nationally ranked - not a bad percentage and this year, both the FB and BB teams made the postseason - can’t say the same for Duke or Stanford).</p>
<p>Softball - 5 B10 Championships and CWS appearances, including 2006 runner-up.</p>
<p>Tennis - both programs are very competitive w/ the women’s team was ranked no.1 for pretty much the entire season and was the 1st program from a non-warm weather climate to win the Indoor Championships; men’s team is in a rebuilding mode bt made the NCAA tournament this year and has the 8th rated recruiting class coming in for 2009.</p>
<p>Swimming - the men’s program is consistently in the top 15 (for 5 yrs, from 2004-2008 the team finished in the top 12 and in 2007 finished 6th in the nation; not bad for a “cold weather” school) and includes recent Olympic Gold Medalist Matt Grevers.</p>
<p>Men’s Soccer - has become a powerhouse Midwest program (along w/ IU and ND) w/ 2 quarterfinal appearances in the NCAA Tourney the past 3 yrs.</p>
<p>Golf - both the men’s and women’s programs are very strong w/ numerous NCAA appearances</p>
<p>Wrestling - is a top 12 program w/ Jake Herbert being named the National Collegiate Wrestler of the Year</p>
<p>Women’s BB - used to make the NCAA quite frequently until the coaches during the late 1990s-mid 2000s drove the program into the ground. W/ the new coach, Joe McKeown (formerly of GWU), the women’s program, due to his incoming recruiting classes, should be a powerhouse in the next couple of years.</p>
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<p>Not close to Duke - hah! </p>
<p>Funny how the NRC places NU ahead of Duke w/ regard to avg. ranking when factoring in all the academic areas where the 2 schools are ranked.</p>
<p>Not to mention that NU has the higher avg SAT/ACT scores for the middle 50%.</p>
<p>As for Duke sports - they managed tp attain their success in BB by pretty much doing away w/ academic standards for recruits.</p>
<p>During the 1990s - the avg. SAT score for Duke players was in the mid-900s placing them in the middle of the ACC.</p>
<p>Due to the miserable win count by the FB program, Duke lowered the standards for the FB team AGAIN - where now one-THIRD of recruits only have to meet minimum NCAA standard.</p>
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<p>Corbett -</p>
<p>Much of what you bring up happened during the “reign” of President Strotz who basically cut-off funding to the sports programs other than the bare minimum since he wanted the university to leave the B10.</p>
<p>As for the several members of the FB and BB team being involved in gambling scandals - that has everything to do w/ their individual characters (first and foremost) and the losing atmosphere around those programs due to the lack of institutional support.</p>
<p>When teams win and/or have institutional support - such things don’t happen (btw, NU is one of 2 schools in the B10 to never have been sanctioned by the NCAA; the other being PSU).</p>
<p>Bienen, NU’s current President who will be shortly leaving office, hails from Princeton and he put considerable administrative support on the sports programs (he also is a huge NU BB fan being that the coach, Carmody, also used to be Princeton’s head coach).</p>
<p>But that didn’t mean that financial resources were taken away from academics and put into the sports program - NU athletics is entirely funded by ticket revenue and its share of the B10 TV revenue pie which is somewhere close to $19-20 million.</p>
<p>As for UC being currently ranked ahead of NU in the USNWR rankings - that largely has to do w/ how UC reported its data.</p>
<p>Until a few years ago, NU has consistently been ranked ahead of UC in the USNWR rankings so I don’t see how leaving the B10 necessarily was the cause for UC to move ahead in the rankings, esp. since Duke has largely built up/maintained its rankings/prestige from the success of its men’s BB program.</p>
<p>Now, I in no way want the admin. at NU to take all the short-cuts that Duke’s admin has taken to ensure success for the men’s BB program or to create success for its FB team (or to pour millions into a study center specifically for athletes for that matter).</p>
<p>Stanford, otoh, has the right approach to academics and major conf. sports.</p>
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You are the one being foolish k&s. Let me address your points one by one.</p>
<p>Football: NU has been been god awful of late and has been the bottom feeder of the Big 10 alongside with Indiana for about a decade They even lost to Duke in the 2007 season when we were downright awful (that was our ONLY win). In addition, Northwestern has the longest D1 losing streak in college football history. Duke has 17 conference championships in football and the most ACC Football Players of the Year than any other ACC school among other notable achievments.</p>
<p>Basketball: HAHAHAHA GO DUKE!</p>
<p>Softball: Duke only has a club team so we can’t compare.</p>
<p>Swimming: Uh, who cares?</p>
<p>Men’s Soccer: Duke won the national championship in 1986 and has been one of the top 3 ACC programs for the past decade with stronger finishes in the NCAA tournament than Northwestern.</p>
<p>Tennis: The men’s program have been strong contendors in the ACC and NCAA but have been overshadowed by Stanford. The women’s team are national champs this year. NATIONAL CHAMPIONS. Northwestern is a joke in comparison.</p>
<p>Lacrosse: DUKE DOMINATION</p>
<p>Wrestling: 2 words…Konrad Dudziak. Look him up. ACC Heavyweight Champion and NCAA Finalist. We had 2 other individuals in the NCAA Wrestling Chamionship this year. Who else does Northwestern have besides Herbert?</p>
<p>Golf: AGAIN…DUKE BY A MILE in both sports</p>
<p>LOLz Duke. So desperate for attention.</p>
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No, Duke has the higher average SAT/ACT scores for the middle 50%. Northwestern doesn’t publish these stats readily so they are clearly hiding something.</p>
<p>Duke has perhaps the most well-respected and cleanest basketball program in the NCAA. Of course the bball players have low SAT scores; they are athletes FIRST and students SECOND. Duke gets the best basketball players in the nation and all of them want to go to the NBA so academic considerations are secondary. Despite this, Duke makes sure the bball players meet high academic standards. We can’t even go after some recruits because they don’t meet the academic standards here.</p>
<p>Regarding the football team, they are still meeting the minimum NCAA standards right? So whats the problem? Duke isn’t an Ivy League school; we play sports to win, something Northwestern has been failing at of late.</p>
<p>Duke is superior to Northwestern in every way, even if only slightly. I understand your inferiority complex k&s.</p>
<p>In order to have teams like that you would have to go out of your way to recruit them, and the ivies just don’t do a ton of that. they would have to admit students that may be underqualified academically. honestly i don’t think anyone cares that much, at least i dont.</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire,</p>
<p>Are you serious? Duke football is a joke, and Duke hasn’t even had a good basketball team (by Duke’s standards) for the past few years. Duke lacrosse was disappointing this year as well. Yeah, Duke has better athletics overall than NU, but they still have serious work to do if they want to be considered a true “sports school”.</p>
<p>How’s Syracuse’s football team been doing lately? You guys have a solid basketball team so I’m not going to knock Cuse for that but they have nowhere near an established basketball dynasty like Duke. Duke’s standards are way too high for the school to realistically meet year after year. We had a 30 win regular season, won the ACC Tournament and made it to the Sweet Sixteen last year so we did fine this past year.</p>
<p>The Duke Football team will make bowl games from here on out with a strong recruiting class and Cutcliffe at the helm.</p>
<p>Duke Lacrosse will be national champions next year, mark my words. No one will be able to contain Ned Crotty.</p>
<p>Actually, I go to UNC (transferred from Syracuse, which is why I have the 'Cuse name). Our football team did pretty well this year, 8-4 in the regular season and sold out our bowl game.</p>
<p>Duke basketball has been decent (again, by Duke’s standards) these past few years, but Duke has higher standards than just winning the ACC tourney. Losing 4 years in a row to your arch rival and getting knocked out early in the tourney repeatedly over the last several years constitutes a failure to most Duke fans. </p>
<p>I’m not sure about Duke making a bowl this year, but it could happen. Cutcliffe definitely has his work cut out for him though. </p>
<p>I’ll give you lacrosse. Duke lacrosse is the only Duke team I don’t dislike, mainly because of the injustice that the team was subjected to a couple of years ago.</p>
<p>It’s nice to see that ring is continuing his rants on Duke sports and whatever (including, surreptitiously putting down other schools w/ no attention to the facts), glad to see so much of his self-esteem is predicated by the success of Duke sports teams (typical keyboard “jock”) - lol!</p>
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<p>Didn’t I already “school” you on the facts?</p>
<p>How can NU FB be “god awful of late” when the program has won three conf. titles since 1995 and in that span have a winning or .500 record against every team except for dOSU, PSU, UM and Purdue?</p>
<p>Furthermore, over the past 6 meetings, NU is 5-1 against both Illinois and Indiana.</p>
<p>Let’s compare the records of the two programs over the past 6 years, shall we?</p>
<p>NU - 38 wins and only ONE losing regular season when the head coach unexpectedly passed away</p>
<p>Duke - 12 wins (only 10 if you discount wins against “1-AA” teams) and w/ all 6 yrs being losing seasons.</p>
<p>As for the rest, it’s ancient history (you sound like a Pitt FB fan talking about all their national championships from the early 1900s); before the mid 1970s-1980s, NU also had a pretty decent FB program under coaches like Parsegian, but none of us where alive or cognizant to enjoy it.</p>
<p>As for the loss to Duke in 2007, yeah, that was a bad loss, but every team has that (i.e. -USC losing to Stanford).</p>
<p>Mind you, Duke just barely beat NU despite the Wildcats putting up 200 more yds of offense (and that was w/o the ‘Cats’ stud RB who was injured); plus, NU’s inexperienced coach made some bone-headed moves, including taking points off the board which had a major impact on the game.</p>
<p>Also, last season, NU also lost to a crappy IU team (due in part to losing both the starting QB and RB to injury) - but that didn’t negate a successful season.</p>
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<p>Yes - Duke clearly has the edge.</p>
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<p>That doesn’t negate the fact that you stated that NU only has one winning program.</p>
<p>Nice try at attempting to change the topic when the FACTS don’t match what you claim.</p>
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<p>Uhh, more people in the US care about swimming as a sport than soccer; more people can name top American swimmers than top American soccer players.</p>
<p>And again, it doesn’t negate what you had previously claimed.</p>
<p>Btw, NU’s swimming program has done that w/ less than the full amount of schollies for swim teams.</p>
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<p>That may be very well and good, but let’s talk about recent history (btw, men’s soccer at NU until fairly recently was a club sport).</p>
<p>NU soccer has made the NCAA tourney 4 out of the past 5 yrs and over the past 3 yrs, has an RPI surpassed only by 3 schools (no, Duke isn’t one of them).</p>
<p>The program has reached the quarterfinals 2 out of the last 3 yrs and was ranked as high as 2nd last season and 3rd in 2007.</p>
<p>Duke, otoh, hasn’t finished in the ranking for the past couple of yrs.</p>
<p>And again, whether Duke soccer program is “better” or not, it doesn’t negate the fact that your previous claim that NU only has 1 winning program is a bunch of crock.</p>
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<p>Uhh, the men’s team is in a rebuilding mode, but usually makes the NCAAs.</p>
<p>As for the women’s team, they won the INDOOR Championship this season and was ranked no.1 for pretty much the entire season so I don’t get where NU tennis is a “joke”.</p>
<p>And again, this doesn’t take away from the fact that your previous claim was bunk.</p>
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<p>Uhh, NU doesn’t have a men’s team and considering the fact that the women’s team has won FIVE national championships in a row, while the Duke men’s or women’s team have won NONE - I’d hardly call it a “Duke domination” (really, your view on things is pretty laughable, not to mention sophomoric).</p>
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<p>Sorry - which team finished in the national rankings (of which NU does pretty much every year)?</p>
<p>NU has too many wrestlers of note to mention.</p>
<p>When was the last time the Duke wrestling team was ranked in the top 20?</p>
<p>And again, your weak “argument” doesn’t refute the fact that your prior claim was pure ignorance.</p>
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<p>Duke probably does have the better golf programs (mostly due to the weather advantage), but I wouldn’t say “by a mile”.</p>
<p>And again, this doesn’t make your prior proclamation nonsensical.</p>
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<p>Duke BB has become like ND FB - over-rated by the press and analysts.</p>
<p>They continually get knocked out early in the Tourney, by much lower seeds including a 7th and 11th seeded teams (in fact, it’s been a LONG time since Duke has beaten a higher seeded team in the Tourney).</p>
<p>Again, you are misconstruing the facts, Duke BB hasn’t been relevant in the Tourney for for more than several years, and only once in nearly a decade.</p>
<p>Having said that, Duke still has an enviable program that any other private university would like have, but schools like Stanford and Northwestern just will not do away w/ academic standards for recruits as Duke has (c’mon, even you have to admit that avg. SAT scores in the mid-900s is frankly, embarrassing).</p>
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<p>Cutcliffe is a very good coach and Duke will likely make several bowl games w/ him at the helm (but probably not an annual affair - since the rest of the ACC, except for UVA, has upgraded their coaching staffs).</p>
<p>Having said that - the key reason why the Duke FB team will improve and make some bowls is b/c of the continually LOWERED academic standards pushed by the admin. in the quest for winning.</p>
<p>I don’t know if I would take pride in winning if my FB program allowed for ONE-THIRD of its recruits to only need to meet the minimum NCAA standards.</p>
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<p>The men’s lax team may very well win the championship next season, but then again, that’s what Duke fans have been saying for the past few years.</p>