A school like UPenn requires SAT & 2 subject tests OR ACT for undergraduate admissions
Suppose someone is recruited to UPenn for athletics but has only taken the SAT. Will their application be disqualified? Or are they expected to take the ACT or 2 subject tests immediately?
The role of the SATii in admissions is changing, but in 2010, when Harvard required them, the entire application had to be complete for a recruited athlete, just as it would for any other student.
If Penn currently requires SATii (or ACT) I would think that standard applies to athletic recruits as well.
I believe that last year Penn required SAT2s prior to matriculation, but not necessarily prior to admission. Dartmouth was the same way. It was explained to me that the SAT results were used for placement, not admission. That said, the coaches in my son’s sport at both schools wanted the SAT2 results before doing an admissions pre read. And @varska is right, as per usual. Every Ivy we dealt with last year (in the end, everyone but Brown and Columbia) wanted a complete application before beginning the likely letter review.
^^Agree. The Ivy coaches my son spoke to were very clear about what tests were required and they told him early and often what was expected. A last minute surprise regarding a missing required test seems unlikely in a typical recruiting process. Ask the coach if it isn’t clear what is mandatory. In son’s case at a different school, subject tests were required for admission rather than for placement so he took those early.
Getting the subject tests done early helped us justify unofficially visiting the Ivy schools over the summer because we had a good sense of my son’s academic index and the feasibility of admission given coach’s support.
All Ivies except Harvard and Dartmouth require Subject SATs only from those students who take the SAT. Those who take the ACT instead need not bother submitting SAT II scores. Seems like a powerful incentive to take the ACT test.
Small footnote guys. When you take the ACT, you must take the ACT with writing in order to not have to take subject tests at most college. This is certainly true for Yale not sure about the others
Good point, Wje9164be. Yes, you must take the writing portion of the ACT as well in order to avoid the SAT II requirement.
My son is a recruited Penn athlete. Prior to recruitment he had already done one SAT2 test. They had him take another to complete his app.
Thanks @nhparent9 @SwimDad99 @Wje9164be @Startingblock @varska @Ohiodad51 !!
Do you know if there is a preference for ACT vs. SAT 2? After having already taken the SAT, it sounds like it might be easier to do well on ACT than SAT 2s? Do you know how the second test is weighed relative to the SAT score?
The SAT2s comprise one third of the academic index number along with gpa (and class rank if available) and SAT1 or ACT score. My understanding is if there are no SAT2 scores, the ACT or SAT1 score counts for two thirds of the AI number and the gpa one third. I don’t know if coaches have a preference for the ACT or SAT1. In my experience, coaches care mostly about getting the highest AI number they can, and to that end each of the coaches recruiting my son recommended that he take the SAT2s whether needed for admission or not. The way it was explained to me, recruits should take the ACT with writing, the SAT1 and SAT2. Then the coach will use whatever mix of those scores looks best on the AI
We attended a Yale admissions event in Chicago this fall. The admissions officer made it seem as it so long as you have either ACT + writing or SAT + Subject Tests they have no preference, they can check off that box. The smart thing to do is to take the SAT + writing and to take your Subject Tests and SAT. If you knock it out of the ballpark on the ACT, you’re done. If you perform relatively better on the SAT you can use these tests instead. I know there is a lot of noise about the AI for athletes but as far as I know they will not explicitly require athletes to take the SAT Subject tests merely to calculate an AI. One piece of advice I would give students is to be very, very careful about exactly which test scores you send and to not send any scores you don’t have to. D had a great ACT and a so-so SAT, 36 and 2040. Georgetown’s test policy is a little ambigious. You could interpret it to mean that you have to send all tests and you could interpret it to mean that you have to send the ACT (all sittings) and the Subject Tests. We interpreted their policy broadly and sent the SAT. Now a college will say that they make the strongest case possible to advocate on the behalf of all applicants - do you really believe that?
There are two different streams here. One is what information is sent to the admissions office when the application is submitted in the regular course. The other is the information to send to the coaches so they can take a kid through the pre read process. These are two different things. All of the testing information goes to the coaches. If support for a likely letter is offered and accepted, the coaching staff will advise what test results should be sent in with the application. In my limited experience, the process is very different than regular admissions.
Personally, if a coach who was recruiting me said take the SAT2 tests because they may improve your AI score, I would not want to go back to him (or her) and say, nah I took the ACT with writing so I don’t need to bother with the SAT2’s. I personally would say yes sir, was just studying for them the other night in fact.
At the end of the day, it is likely to be an academic difference since if an athlete is being recruited by one Ivy it is likely they are being recruited by a couple others, at least one of which will require the SAT2s either for matriculation or admission. In my son’s circumstance, he took the ACT with writing and scored a 34, but still took the SAT2s, because some of the colleges recruiting him required them. In addition to Harvard and Dartmouth which @swimdad99 already mentioned, Princeton requires the SAT2s even with the ACT with writing. My recollection is that UPenn did as well but I could be wrong.
Wje9164be, I think you accidentally typed “The smart thing to do is to take the SAT + writing” when you meant to say “ACT + writing.” If so, I agree entirely. That’s a very good strategy – precisely the one we adopted for S.
And I understand that Penn also asks for all tests, so that’s something to keep in mind.
Thanks for clarifying, Ohiodad51. You’re right about Princeton (I just checked), and it looks like Cornell requires them as well (at least for A&S). But Penn does not require SAT Subject Tests (in addition to the ACT + writing).
So that’s Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, and Dartmouth that DO require subject tests. Brown, Yale, Penn, and Columbia DO NOT (if you take the ACT rather than SAT). Given that half of the Ivies do require SAT Subject Tests, I would concur with Ohiodad 51 that it makes sense to take the subject tests regardless of whether you plan to take the SAT or ACT.
One additional argument in favor of taking the ACT over the SAT – the SAT test is being completely overhauled in 2016. So it’s possible that you study all year for the SAT as it’s currently configured and designed and then – if you need to take it again in 2016 – end up having to prepare for a very different exam. My oldest is a high school class of 2017 and that very much figured into our decision to focus on the ACT. Just food for thought…
@SwimDad99 Do you know if the current SAT can be used for the Class of 2017 of that’s taken before the format changes?
satteacher, I’m certain that any school will accept any previous scores. The problem occurs if you have a student who’s been preparing for an extended period for the current SAT and then finds themselves needing to retake in 2016. It’ll be a moving target for them – a very different exam.
See this page for some additional information on the new SAT for spring 2016.
https://www.collegeboard.org/delivering-opportunity/sat/redesign/compare-tests
This is probably straying far from the original intent of this thread but there is at least one more possible reason for someone to take the SAT Subject tests even if he/she plans to take the ACT with writing…
If you get high scores on the SAT Subject tests then the results become an asset to use to embellish your application at schools (maybe only some schools) that do not have any requirements for Subject tests. Some highly selective D3s and non-Ivy D1s promote that they consider, but do not require, the SAT Subject tests as part of the admissions process. Should you have to submit apps across an array of schools when the regular decision deadline hits, and before your recruiting status is fully understood at an Ivy or elsewhere, you might like being able to include Subject test results to enhance your application.
Absent strong extra curriculars beyond his sport, we slept a little better knowing that my son had solid SAT Subject test results to help make his case for admission at schools since we were unclear about coaches’ support long past the regular decision deadline. Just an observation from our experience that, unfortunately, did not follow the early decision/single application/likely letter scenario.
A very good point, Startingblock. Also, as I understand it, the SAT II scores can only help and not hurt when factored into the Academic Index used by the Ivies. The calculation will be 1/3 GPA and 2/3rds ACT or SAT UNLESS your SAT Subject Tests rank higher than your standardized test (ACT or SAT) scores in which case, they use 1/3 GPA, 1/3 ACT or SAT/ and 1/3 the average of two SAT Subject Tests. So there are several very good reasons to take the SAT II subject tests along the way – ideally during sophomore and junior years.
I would just point out the obvious here. You can schedule your SAT II Subject Tests near when your student-athlete is taking his/her AP exam in the same subject. They’re similar if not identical (one is high school level (SAT II) and one is college level (AP) but the material substantially overlaps). My oldest just took the Biology SAT II and will shortly take the Biology AP exam – within two weeks of each other. So you can kill two birds with one stone.
^Completely agree on test timing, SwimDad. Studying for AP exams was my son’s SAT Subject test prep course. I don’t think he did anything else to prepare. Had he waited until the fall of senior year to take the subject tests, it would have required a full refresh on the material.
@Startingblock @SwimDad99 Is taking the Subject Tests in Oct senior year too late for the recruitment process? I guess better put, tests taken by when are the ones that are ultimately used?