I am about to begin my senior year of high school, and of course, the college admissions process is weighing heavily on my mind right now.
My goal has always been to attend an Ivy League school, and, while I know that nothing is a guarantee when it comes to Ivy League admissions, I am a very qualified applicant. I attend one of the most prestigious and well-regarded private high schools in the nation, have a 4.0 unweighted GPA, scored a 2380 on my SAT (M:800, R:800, W:780), play three varsity sports, and am involved in and have a leadership positions in a number of meaningful other extracurriculars.
As far as my future academic plans go, I hope to major in something related to business (I know at most Ivies that means getting an economics degree) and eventually go on to a top tier law school.
My main question is whether or not I should play it safe and apply early decision to Dartmouth or Penn SAS, knowing that I have a very high chance of getting in to either. Or should I take my chances going HYP restrictive early action, knowing that if I don’t get into whichever one I apply to early, admissions chances at all the ivies drop when you enter the regular application pool (and I consider Wharton to fall into the same category of HYP in the sense that it is a crap shoot no matter how qualified you are). I know that Dartmouth and Penn SAS are not thought of as highly as HYP and Wharton, but is an economics degree from either going to set me back in the long run from my peers who attended HYP/Wharton? And how do law schools view applicants from the respective Ivies?
From what visits and research I’ve done so far, if I could pick one school to go to today, it would be Yale. However, I am not so in love with Yale that I would consider risking my chances of going to an Ivy League school by wasting the golden opportunity of early applications on a school that is really a toss up no matter what when I could be applying somewhere where I have a much higher chance of getting in. Also, it is worth noting that I do not really have much interest in Cornell or Brown, and from what I’ve heard from peers, Columbia is not a very good fit for me.
Thanks for any help or advice that you all can give me.
Your goal needs to go beyond college. A college is just a means to get to your goal and as soon as you realize that, the better off you will be. Your stats are the same as many thousands. There are what 200,000 high schools in the US. Let’s just say one valedictorian from each. I think you can see the math doesn’t compute. Many top students won’t make the cut.
You can use an Ivy and Ivy likes as reaches but be sure you have financial safeties and schools you wouldn’t mind attending as well.
From a graduate school or first job perspective an econ degree with a rigorous/quantitative core, strong grades (i.e. graduating with honors), and stellar sophomore and junior year internships from any of the colleges on your short list will generate much interst in your application.
So what’s the best EA/ED strategy? My sense is that you have a good assessment of the advantages/disadvantages of applying EA to Yale. Whether or not Penn or Dartmouth admission chances ED would be much higher than EA to Yale is debatable. Perhaps “slightly” higher. Although you don’t mention applying to Penn Arts and Sciences with the goal of subsequetly transferring to Wharton I expect that this may have occured to you. This is not a reliable plan. Very few such transfers are approved.
So my sense is that there’s no obvious best plan. So I recommend that you apply to Yale EA. The admissions Gods may smile on you. If not you will have at least 4 chances applying RD.
As far as why I think that my chances are much higher at Dartmouth/Penn ED than Yale EA, I only think this based off of past applicants from my high school. 16 of 18 ED applicants to Dartmouth from my school have been accepted over the past five years with slightly lesser but similar numbers at Penn. As far as Yale goes, numbers drop to 7 out of 20 for EA.
@Rdtsmith I appreciate the input, and trust me, I am well aware that nothing is a guarantee when it comes to admissions at any Ivy. Also, I am of course planning on applying to plenty of back ups.
What’s the RD admission rate from your school (for people with comparable credentials) for Dartmouth and Penn? I’d put those in the “you’d probably get in anyway” category, in which case spending your ED/EA on one of them seems pointless. Truthfully, wrt law school, given the colleges you’re looking at, admissions will depend on your GPA and LSATs (which are likely to be comparable to SATs).
Are you recruitable (and interested in playing) any of your varsity sports at the college level or are they just functioning as ECs? Are you a legacy at any of these schools? (In the end, that’ll probably drive where my kid plays her private EA chip). Personally, if I knew I wanted business and then law, I’d apply ED to Wharton. (Though, empirically, I ended up going to Harvard rather than to Wharton because I wasn’t sure about business – apparently for good reason, because I didn’t end up going in that direction.)
You mention that 16 of 18 ED applicants from your high school were admitted to Dartmouth over the last several years and similar numbers at Penn but do you know how many of these had “hooks” like legacy, recruited athlete, development, etc. At my daughter’s school, many if not most of the kids who get into Ivy League schools ED or EA fall into one of those categories. On the other hand, it is true that Penn admitted half of its incoming freshman class ED so for Penn at least, it does seem like applying ED is a good strategy. Also, I heard a Dartmouth admissions officer say that the only way to “demonstrate interest” at Dartmouth is to apply early.
Why is Harvard being thrown out the window? If you go to one of the top privates, have insane stats, and awesome EC’s, Harvard’s Econ program is hard to beat!
Also, I know Chicago is not an Ivy, but since it’s ranked higher than most of them, for all intents and purposes it is. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it has one of if not the top Econ program in the country. The faculty and staff are second to none (I’m a big Austan Goolsbee fan) and they have ties to the best law schools in the country (with one of them themselves!).
Re Why is Harvard being thrown out the window? Because OP is asking about EA/ED and Harvard is neither OP’s first choice nor a school where EA would nail down an admit. Presumably, OP will include Harvard and other Ivies in his/her RD applications. Though I guess a favorable ED decision from Penn or Dartmouth effectively rules out Harvard. In which case the answer to your question is “risk aversion.”
@exacademic The RD acceptance rates from my high school at both Dartmouth and Penn drop pretty significantly from the ED acceptance rates. Penn’s is around 17% and Dartmouth’s is around 25%.
As far as athletics go, I have never really had much interest in playing in college and think that at this point, I wouldn’t have much success trying to become recruitable/get recruited. Also, I am not a legacy at any of the Ivies. I am relying on personal merit, which I know is not necessarily a sure-fire way to gain admission at a top tier school.
@Hardworker99 Have you visted all eight Ivy League schools? Which did you like best and why?
As for your question about law schools, applications to law school are at a 15 year low. Even top schools are less competitive.
Do any schools outside the Ivy League interest you? Does the overall experience of schools like Michigan, Notre Dame, Stanford or Boston College appeal to you? Do any top LACs appeal to you?
Also, if you have an eye on business as an undergrad your choices should reflect that.
@BatesParents2019 I have visited all but Brown, Cornell and Princeton. Yale is my favorite due to the residential college system, urban (but not too urban) setting, and the overall “vibe” of the campus (academically rigorous but not necessarily competitive). Dartmouth and Penn are at somewhat of a tie for second for each of their own respective reasons, yet they both have drawbacks for me as well. I’m not a fan of the isolation of Dartmouth nor the D Plan, and as for Penn, I am not wild about the “cliquishness” of the social life nor the fact that you have to apply to a certain school. However, it seems that Penn may be more highly regarded/more prestigious, which, even though some may not think that is a good way to determine what college to go to, definitely matters to me. Any comments on Dartmouth vs. Penn prestige/regard?
Outside of the Ivies I’m looking at schools such as UVA, Vanderbilt and Duke. I am not wild about the idea of going to school on the west coast, which makes me hesitant about Stanford (but for obvious reasons you can never really rule out Stanford) and pretty much rules out the U of C schools.
As far as LACs, I am open to the idea of going to one, and the one’s that stand out to me as possible fits are Williams, Middlebury and other schools that are in that top tier of LACs. One thing about LACs that I’m not wild about is their size. I think that Dartmouth is about as small as I might want to go.
Dartmouth would be my pick of the two but it will come down to where you get in.
I would also caution you on ED in that the numbers are very misleading, especially Ivy and NESCAC because athletic recruiting, legacy and URM are ED focused. Much of ED pool is preselected or apex students.