<p>Your numbers are inaccurate - you can't compare one year's worth of NMSC scholars to 4 years of entering students. The figures are more like 17% of the class at Yale/Harvard, 15% at Princeton, 6% at Dartmouth and 2-5% of the class at the "lesser" Ivies.</p>
<p>A better way is to look at the % of the incoming class that year, like this analysis:</p>
<p>Haha, Clay...would you expect anything else from posterx? As a matter of fact, he is doing what he does best. You see, posterx is comparing 2005 with 2004.</p>
<p>Ahh, posterx....here you go again with your numbers. But why don't you bring us up to date with the latest data available, 2006 ?</p>
<p>By total (2006) (2005) (Percentage change compared to 2006)</p>
<p>It actually turns out that Yale had one of the biggest drops in number of NMSC with respect to 2005, together with Columbia and Princeton. As a matter of fact, Yale's number of NMSC for 2006 dropped almost to their all time low level of 2002 (180)
On the other hand, Brown and Cornell had a very significant increase in their numbers of NMSC. They are probably coming from Yale and Princeton.</p>
<p>The numbers fluctuate from year to year, so one year is pretty insignificant in terms of trending - you would really need to use a moving average with 4+ years of data, as I hinted at in my post, in order to discern any trend. In addition to numerical trend, you would also want to look at "market share" or "penetration" trend, i.e., the share received of total NMSC-sponsored awards given out in a given year, because that is not a constant number. </p>
<p>It seems that the most significant trend has to do with Harvard -- they used to attract 400 NMSC scholars per year, and, despite an overall increase in the # of awards given out, the number of NMSC scholars that they attract has consistently declined into the 300 range or less over the past five years. Relative to that all of the other Ivies have stayed about where they were five years ago in terms of percentages.</p>
<p>Anyhow, regardless of what year you choose, HYP (and Caltech) are always far ahead of everyone else in terms of attracting the best students to their matriculating classes.</p>
<p>posterx, even when you are exposed your rationalization is pathetic and you show no decency. You had no interest in pointing out this information and instead tried to direct the forum to some post of yours from 2006 from a thread named: Harvard vs Yale.</p>
<p>The OP posted the Ivy League National Merits for the current year. Your percentages are the ones that were wrong.
[quote]
The figures are more like 17% of the class at Yale/Harvard, 15% at Princeton, 6% at Dartmouth and 2-5% of the class at the "lesser" Ivies.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Those percentages that you posted were directly comparing 2005 vs 2004. They were not indicative of any trend and therefore your assertion was misleading. I corrected you and pointed out the correct percentages that actually indicate a significant decrease for Yale "attracting the best students to its matriculating class" for the year that we are discussing. </p>
<p>And talking about trends, it may very well be the beginning of a declining trend for Yale.... we may just need to wait a couple of years I guess.</p>
<p>I wonder if dCircle made this post just to invite the rantings of PosterX. </p>
<p>HYP and Caltech are not at all far ahead of everyone else in terms of attracting the best students, especially if you are basing this conclusion on the number of NMSC, because as I have stated earlier, the National Merit Scholar system is in no way a comprehensive measure of who the best students are. It's based primarily on a skewed test taken at the age of 16!! For the love of all that is holy and good, how does that tell you who the best students are? You're also forgetting MIT and Standford, who's prestige at least equals that of HYP and Cal Tech. But beyond prestige, you have to recognize that people pick schools for all different reasons. I bet HYP is above and beyond the winner for attracting prestige mongers, but as far as top students? No. It's much more complicated than that. I know plenty of kids who chose Brown over HYP or Duke or Stanford, or other higher ranked schools because they simply liked it better. I chose Brown over Swarthmore and Penn. My friend Becca chose Brown over Stanford, Nina chose Brown over Harvard, and I think RaboK on this board chose it over Yale. And that doesn't even begin to account for those at Williams, Swarthmore, and Amherst who in many cases could have gone to your beloved and ever-reveared HYP, but chose a smaller and more intimate environment. Look at the overall academic quality of the school, rigor, and selectivity when taking into context the qualifications of the applicant pool, when determining who has "the best" students.</p>
<p>I think there's another key issue here that we need to address. In fact, it keeps me up nights. </p>
<p>PosterX wants us to know how wonderful Yale is so that he can impress you, me, my dog, my dog's grandma, and my dog's grandma's chew toy with how frikin fantabulous a student he is. By the way, I told Olivernicus that you go to Yale, and he wasn't very impressed. He scoffed and went to chew up a stuffed watermelon. Too bad for you. Majestic plan? FOILED. AND BY A CHIUAUA (dachsaund-skiperkee-border collie-mix). (yes I have a funny looking dog) (and yes I can't spell). </p>
<p>Guys, PosterX's style is eerily reminiscent of the former Byerly, or, on *******, NYCFAN. The promotion of Yale may be a diversionary tactic to detract from his Harvardphilia.</p>
<p>I love Harvard and Yale - they are probably the two most unique and excellent places in North America - but I really don't know what you're talking about.</p>
<p>Whoaaaa …Why all the emotion in a rational discussion ? Is it too much coffee or is that how you participate in discussions? </p>
<p>As a geezer, I note that I did not go to college at Brown, or Yale, or Stanford. But I believe one can tell much about a college or university by its students. And my [senior] daughter knows only of athletes and honor-code violators attending Stanford. Perhaps this shows it to be ‘better’ than the others you mention, rationally speaking, athletes being a mark of academic distinction. … I’m just saying…</p>
<p>Stanford’s more unique than either Harvard or Yale: it’s in an ACTUAL D1 sports league/gives athletic scholarships (what other top school does THAT, hmm?), it’s on a quarter-schedule (you have to go ALL the way down to Dartmouth and UChicago to get another top school that does THAT), and it’s not within 200 miles of a dozen other prestige-whore-filled schools. Plus, it’s a bicycling campus, and has more land than either Harvard or Yale. AND it’s built in a mission-style, something NO east-coast school (of which there are more than west-coast schools, hence making Stanford even MORE unique) has. Tell me, how is Yale more unique from Harvard than Stanford is from the both? Please.</p>
<p>Somebody REALLY has their panties up in a bunch about Stanford. You look silly. </p>
<p>Duke also has D1 sports; Chicago, Dartmouth, and Caltech are all on the quarter system (and regardless of your mindless notions, these are some of Stanford’s peer schools); and Berkeley is 40 miles away (and to say that the Ivy Leagues are prestige-whore-filled while Berkeley isn’t is just stupid). Stanford isn’t that unique.</p>
<p>^Sorry, I was trying (apparantley ineffectively) to convey a sarcastic/cynical tone. Guess I’m not sarcastic/cynical enough to do it well. I wanted to showcase how silly it is to say Harvard and Yale are the most UNIQUE schools out there. Even among the very top schools (however you define that), they’re not that unique, besides being old and wealthy. For example, much more UNIQUE is Olin. Much more UNIQUE is probably Chicago. Much more UNIQUE is Reed, or Dartmouth (quarter-system, hugely Greek, very chill but apparently more conservative). But in my mind, Harvard and Yale kind of blend together and form one hodge-podge of a similar environment/academics. I may be completely wrong, but Harvard and Yale seem like some of the least unique schools (besides in terms of wealth, where they’re not really that unique, as most top schools are wealthy, just not as exceedingly wealthy).</p>
<p>To be fair, though, I do really like Harvard’s debate team. And they run tournaments well.</p>