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Close to zero percent of college students attend an Ivy, but somehow a few non-Ivy grads end up with successful careers. I wonder how they do it.</p>
<p>It seems to me that a better way of phrasing the original question might be: âWhere can I get some of the benefits of attending an Ivy League school, but perhaps at a lower cost or with a better chance of getting in?â I think the mention of âelitismâ is based on some obsolete stereotypes about the Iviesâthey are no longer about *social *elites, but certainly are looking for âeliteâ performers in academics, arts, etc.
So, some of the suggestions are really goodâtop LACs, some other private universities (like Rice, a prime example), and also some public colleges and universities, especially those with good honors programs.</p>
<p>Nobody suggested that Mac was a rival to the Ivies. Nobody suggested that the Ivy student body would be equal to Mac.</p>
<p>Undoubtedly, the student body at the ivies are stronger both quantitatively and qualitatively. The ivies do have more to offer, because they do spend more per student. </p>
<p>Iâm just saying that degrading Mac (and Carleton) with comments like âweâre only looking at WUSTL, Northwestern, Chicago, weâre not even looking at Carletonâ and âMac has a 40% acceptance rate (indicating thats not low enough for your son)!â is unnecessary. </p>
<p>But save for the few careers where you HAVE to go to the ivies for the return on your investment, whatâs the difference? Would you really pay $30,000 more for the difference between UMinn and Ivy because of the educational experience? How much more would you pay for Mac or Carleton (compared to UMinn) then? (because the consensus is that an LAC have smaller classes thus provides a better educational experience) Or arenât you really just paying for the name? </p>
<p>Iâm just trying to understand your view.</p>
<p>Iâm not talking numbers, Iâm talking about ease of getting prime jobs. I am not an Ivy grad, neither is my wife, yet weâre very successful. My wife, for example, was a salutatorian who went to a state school, graduated magna cum laude in 3 years, with dual degrees in math and computer science. She has been an actuary for 20+ years with a major insurance company. Obviously her state degree was good enough for her. However, she tells me that the actuaries they have hired the past few years are all from major brand name or Ivy schools, many with graduate degrees. </p>
<p>Iâm just stating my opinion that an Ivy degree is like a seal of approval to potential employers. It says this is a high caliber person who can excel at almost anything thrown at them. It probably depends on the career, but I think candidates from the Ivies have an advantage over those from lesser known schools.</p>
<p>Return on investment is a critical component. I question the value of going to a lesser known private school at comparable price to the major brands and the Ivies. Unless you get a great aid package, most people would get much better return on their investment from a state school.</p>
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<p>My saying that Mac and Carleton were not on our radar was not meant to be degrading simply that we do not see them on the same level as the 3 Ivies my son is considering. The 40% admit rate was a fact not an opinion. </p>
<p>Let me try again. For OUR family and BECAUSE of our sonâs desired career/future plans, we would be willing to sacrifice and fund MIT, Pâton and Yale. He can apply to Wash U because there is a potential for huge merit aid which we donât see at Mac or Carleton. We would be delighted for him to attend the U of MN honors program which has small classes taught by full professors and last years honors kids averaged a 3.9 GPA and 33 ACT.</p>
<p>If admitted to all or any - the final choice is his.</p>
<p>Kajon has a very logical plan. Spend for the Ivies, get a big discount at a very good private school, or go to state school honors program. All fiscally responsible options.</p>
<p>and therein lies the rub-----is it really worth in excess of $200,000 to go to, say Columbia, just so you can say you went to an Ivy, vs getting a nice merit/grant from a lesser known college mentioned in my first post which saves you, say, $100,000, and gives you small classes with dedicated profs and a near Ivy league education and experience?</p>
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There is no one answer to this question. If youâve got plenty of money, even a small difference in value may justify the higher price for you. Ask people who drive BMWs to explain how much better their cars are than Hondas.</p>
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Return on investment is important. Provided that Kajonâs kid would be happy at UMinn, every additional dollar beyond that point would have to be justified. As Hunt tells us, that process will differ on an individual basis.</p>
<p>and what I am saying is that when you realize the cost of repairs on that shiny BMW is incredibly expensive, and it gives you a just a fleeting sense of elitist satisfaction, followed by years of âthis is not as good as its hyped to beâ, you then realize that Honda which gives you no problems is a pretty darn good deal after all and is a great car, without the attendant hype and elitism.</p>
<p>But maybe the BMWâs seat a just a bit comfier, and youâve got plenty of money. Sure, itâs a luxury, but you donât worry about return on investment if you can afford the luxury.</p>
<p>Easy: Dartmouth and Brown. Undergrad quality, amazing placement, chill students, and overall reputation. Whoops they are Ivies but sometimes the best is in-house. Iâd also put Amherst and Stanford on the list of chill elite schools.</p>
<p>In my opinion, saying that all Ivy League schools are characterized by hype and elitism is as annoying as any elitism that the students at those schools might have.</p>
<p>Shank, how many cars have you owned? I think most would find there is a huge difference between a Honda and a luxury car that has eveything to do with objective superiority, comfort, performance and little to do with the elite hood ornament. Phenomenal ROI IMO just like top colleges.</p>
<p>You almost sound brainwashed into believing that things deemed elite, be they colleges or cars, are hype as opposed to quality. Take a closer look.</p>
<p>Canât compare cars with diplomas. One is rapidly depreciating asset that will be disposed of in a few years (own) or an ongoing expense (lease). They other is an essential investment in a lifetime of earning power.</p>
<p>Again, thereâs no guarantee that youâre going to pay less at a private college. The full pay price for an OK school like BU is the same as the price as Harvard, pretty much, but the payoff for Harvard is much better. If you are going to spend the money, you might as well get the best you can get.</p>
<p>The average salary for a Dartmouth grad 10 years out WITHOUT any graduate degree is something like $130,000. The average at a state school is closer to 65K. No difference? I think people on these boards just donât get it. Going to an Ivy puts you on a career path that isnât accessible to non-Ivy grads.</p>
<p>The top LACs also only offer need-based financial aid, with few or no other scholarships, so they are similar to the Ivys in that way. I would not say they are lacking in elitism, however!</p>
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<p>Looking strictly at SAT scores is deceiving and myopic. The Ivies (as well as Stanford and MIT) are more holistic and could enroll higher SAT scorers if they so desired. They get their pick of the best students. The so-called âIvy equivalentsâ do not. Most of these âequivalentsâ cannot even enroll at least half of their admitted students. Some of them barely manage to enroll a third. Despite any apparent similarities in inputs (i.e. SATs), there exists a significant disparity in outcomes (i.e. elite job and grad school placement).</p>