<p>Byerly...actually no, it's really not similar. I think you'd agree that in the selection process for a new Dean of Admissions, Brenzel probably ANSWERED the questions posed by Levin, et. al.</p>
<p>It is a little similar, although Roberts is far more unpredictable than this Yale guy will be.</p>
<p>How about that failed bill in Mass.? Must be giving Romney fits.</p>
<p>nycdad - I hardly think Brenzel was ASKED some of the questions posed to Roberts.</p>
<p>laurensmom...neither do I. What's your point?</p>
<p>nycdad - I would like to think the Yale search committee showed a little more decorum in questioning their candidates than some of our showboating senators. That's my point. :-)</p>
<p>"Actually, randomperson, whether you look at the educational backgrounds of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies or the data in The Millionaire Next Door, high SATs scores and GPAs seem to have only a limited correlation with high status or "success" in this society. It seems to take a broader range of skills and talents for that. Look at our last Presidential election: both candidates had 1200-ish SATs and midling GPAs."</p>
<p>Both those presidential candidates were also ignorant mediocrities who performed abysmally at Yale, so that doesn't make much of a case against the SAT.</p>
<p>Sure, most Fortune 500 CEOs didn't get 1600s, or even anything close. But could colleges latch on to any other attribute of applicants and do a better job of forseeing business success? If Ivy Leagues started, say, favoring athletics more than academics, I highly doubt that they would admit a more entrepreneurially succesful class.</p>
<p>And implicit in your reasoning is the idea that colleges should primarily look to admit those who will become successful. Why admit the future corporate titan over the thoughtful intellectual?</p>
<p>Incidentally, "recentering" didn't change scores as much as conventional wisdom seems to hold. Verbal scores rose around 70 points, but math scores essentially didn't budge.</p>
<p>Someone earlier in the thread asked me where the "perfect" student in our high school was admitted (the one who didn't get into Yale). The answer is everywhere, including Harvard, Columbia, MIT and Duke. She chose Duke and is very happy there, even though Yale was her first choice (EA applicant).</p>
<p>is it me or has this thread been totally thrown off-topic??</p>
<p>hey ya! it does seem to be going off on a tangent!
so.... back to Mr. Brenzel. i know that he is an alum and has been very involved with that organization. what else does anyone know?
what has he written? what jobs has he held? what is his religion? -sounds like
a german name -(in this country, perhaps jewish)?
personally, from what i have read about his involvment with that alum assoc.
i'd be very happy if i were applying legacy.</p>
<p>"Bush and Kerry got in at a time when it was easier to get into Yale"</p>
<p>No kidding. The population of the U.S. is much higher now. It was before Yale had produced 4 of the past 6 U.S. Presidents. Yale is by far the most desirable & hardest college in the country to get into right now, whereas in the past that wasn't as clear. Yale's acceptance rate has gone from over 20% to under 10% in the space of a few years.</p>
<p>"Yale is by far the most desirable & hardest college in the country to get into right now, whereas in the past that wasn't as clear."</p>
<p>false.</p>
<p>f. scottie, I agree.</p>
<p>It seems to me we'd have to look to admit rate, yield rate and SAT median at least to determine which schools are the most "desirable" for top admits. USNews looks at similar stats to compile its "selectivity" ranking. </p>
<p>And of course the Revealed Preference rankings tell us where the top students go in the greatest number.</p>
<p>The number of NMS winners and winners of other awards for scholastic achievement in the freshman class might also be a useful marker.</p>
<p>The key stats, when available, are, however, the cross-admit preferences - the choices made by the top students who are so "desirable" that they are admitted by two or more elites.</p>
<p>Sadly I noticed those hired to read and admit are not part of the elite corps they have been hired to judge. Does one dumb down the application essay so that you appeal to the judge rather than turn them off?
I couldnt believe that I worked so hard for so many years to find myself judged by someone who clearly was a 9-5 average Joe (Joanna) with little vision and a brand new Yale Admissions officer business card and lots of power!
I am applying EA to Yale but if I dont get in it will be about lucking out with the right judges.
I sometimes think alot about all the years I missed out in High School taking lessons, working like a dog especially during the last 3 years running the AP marathon only to find my application assessment in the hands of clerk. After listening to the speeches at the info sessions I thought these people are judging me... they couldnt handle the workdload, piano, atheltic preparation in field hockey I carried while they dated and sat around with C averages to get into mediocre schools. Too much power if you ask me and since they do not make much money. I will bet jealousy and underlying issues play into their selections! And for all of this I get to pay or borrow 45 thousand a year. What a deal! I would like to be more optimistic but the SAT system is a financial scam and the admissions process another industry worth investigating! Anyone else share these vibes or am I just feeling overwhelmed with proving myself to a room full of jurors?
I got an 800 in math and 780 v and 750 written...I was told at the info session - " well if you have high scores thats not enough its not what we are looking for and its no guarantee"
So tell me isnt that a bit repulsive to tell someone who has been slaving for years that their work is essentially irrelevant? I am proud of my work ethic but it doesnt seem to count for much in a room full of non scholars pushing the button on my life.
Comments?</p>
<p>Kathy Henderson -</p>
<p>You are kidding, right? I hope so.</p>
<p>Assuming you are not kidding, I'd say that you are getting a little carried way with yourself and your accomplishments. To begin with, both of the Yale adcoms that I have met were Yale graduates. I haven't met them all, but I'm sure that the Yale adcom staff is fully qualified to "judge" you. They are professionals. It's what they do for a living and they have been doing it for years.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I will bet jealousy and underlying issues play into their selections!<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Now you are really losing touch with reality. They look at THOUSANDS of apps every year with qualifications just as strong or stronger than yours. Do you think they have time or inclincation to be the least bit jealous of you? And seem to imply that you will be rejected - that they will choose weaker applicants over you due to this jealousy. Come on! Every year Yale puts together one of the strongest freshman classes in the nation. They are clearly not dumbing down the class over jealousy or anything else. </p>
<p>If you think that your SAT scores, piano lessons and field hockey practices somehow imbue you with some superior form of virtue such that only people with the same or greater achievements, who didn't go to "mediocre schools", can judge your fitness for Yale, then I'd say that you've got a lot of growing up to do.</p>
<p>I think you missed the point. Those of us who are applying have ALL worked very hard in the percentiles we ALL represent. There is an industry here that is thriving as we huddle pathetically to "try to get in" we sit in rooms for years working very hard and a handful of people decide our fate dismissing our accomplishments or judging us based on 250 word essays! I think you should rethink what I was trying to say.
If you think the SAT system which just switched into a longer test by combining writing into the SAT 1 score and pulling it out of SAT 2 subj tests (and by the way earning $70 more per head in doing so)is noble then you should grow up. The students are being tested to death all to be judged by EXPERTS in a little room.... putting together the best class ever at YALE or H or Pton.... rah rah rah. Perhaps we should look at how to improve the system rather than grow it into a more impossible burden on the student who must also pray for a way to pay tuition if they dont fall into the right category of poverty. Please Take the time as I have to read the desparate voices on this website. Frightened and nervous about grades, scores, essays and filling out the form perfectly as to avoid being ditched!
And who are these people in the room making these decisions? If they are human, and heaven forbid in a bad mood will my dreams be smashed? If in 250 words my voice is not one they want to hear because I play piano or field hockey- ho hum.......I have met many professionals and let me tell you some of them need a bottle of prozac next to their bedside- dont be so easily impressed by the school logo!!!
I attended about 15 college info sessions representing top schools not all of the admissions officers are alum from these schools many switched from sales jobs!!! Enough said. And my "piano lessons" and " "field hockey" ECs represent hours and hours of hard work. Sorry I was not finding the cure for cancer this year.... but many of us applying with a 4.o gpa and 5 APs with 5's for 2 or 3 yrs spent years in middle America practicing the tuba for the school band - baby our lives count!..........we should not be so easily dismissed as being not good enough- its vulgar...your response is my point exactly... "If you think that your SAT scores, piano lessons and field hockey practices somehow imbue you with some superior form of virtue such that only people with the same or greater achievements, who didn't go to "mediocre schools", can judge your fitness for Yale, then I'd say that you've got a lot of growing up to do."
so tell me how does one write the perfect letter to please someone like you? what strikes your fancy. Im a good person, field hockey is not impressive ok. 14 yrs of piano not good- ok....so tell me what is the criteria flavor of the month? AND THAT IS MY POINT- and I do not except from you whomever you are that the finest are chosen and the rest are out. IF I get into one of the schools I will do my best to use my IQ to help the next group coming aboard - I am more interested in having classmates who have not been beaten by the system taught that the formula works and now that I am IN lets make it tougher for the next guy! Rah Rah Rah.</p>
<p>Well that was weird.</p>
<p>Kathy, if your stats and ECs are as impressive as you say, I'm sure you will get into many fine schools, PROVIDED you manage to hold your nose long enough to write some essays quite a bit different from what you wrote in post #34. </p>
<p>Telling the adcoms how you really feel - that they are "not very impressive," that they "are not part of the elite corps they have been hired to judge," that you consider yourself "judged by someone who clearly was a 9-5 average Joe (Joanna) with little vision...," that you believe that "they couldnt handle the workdload, piano, atheltic preparation in field hockey I carried while they dated and sat around with C averages to get into mediocre schools," etc., etc., is probably a VERY bad idea.</p>
<p>It is students who are holding these sorts of elitist notions of superiority and entitlement that the college admissions process at most schools is designed to weed out.</p>
<p>All I'll say is that I hope your name isn't really Kathy Henderson because any adcom that reads that will have some serious questions about you.</p>
<p>coureur and film.............Really? I didnt think this was true confessions..relax... do you prefer I goosestep in here too?</p>