<p>If kathy henderson's real name is kathy henderson, then any yale adcom on these boards definitely knows her acceptance letter's size.</p>
<p>=D</p>
<p>The next time you are going to call members of an adcom stupid, it would be advisable not to post it on a board which is monitored by the adcom. I'm sure other adcom members at peer institutions would also not take to such a comment. I hope you do not apply to Yale - your attitude and smugness is wholly unbecoming and has no place at Yale. And if you do, I hope that your real name isn't kathy henderson. You would surely be rejected.</p>
<p>It seems to me that Kathy Henderson (or whatever is his/her real name) is voicing a very valid concern. </p>
<p>Perhaps she is wrong in making a target of the admission committee employees. They are more like her than she appears to understand. </p>
<p>However, the main thrust of her argument is that the admission process is deeply flawed despite (and often directly because) of all the "experts" involved. </p>
<p>Education is a very thriving Big Business, especially among the Ivy League. They are profiting from creating increasingly high standards in partnership with allied industries (like makers of educational tests and schools/programs that promise improved chances for applicants). </p>
<p>This system makes the elite colleges look good, increasing their status and financial standing. All those experts make in the admission process live off this oppressive process. </p>
<p>The college application system now takes up much of the life of many teens, reaching back to 7th grade. This means those teens have less time for things which might be a lot better. </p>
<p>I am glad I did not face the pressure of today's applicants to meet ridiculous "standards."</p>
<p>The current college admissions system suffers from many problems, but whether or not the adcoms went to fancy enough colleges is NOT one of them. And that seems to be Kathy's primary complaint - that the adcoms are beneath her and unworthy to judge her. Gimme a break.</p>
<p>"Kathy" said
"I think you missed the point. Those of us who are applying have ALL worked very hard in the percentiles we ALL represent. There is an industry here that is thriving as we huddle pathetically to "try to get in" we sit in rooms for years working very hard and a handful of people decide our fate dismissing our accomplishments or judging us based on 250 word essays! I think you should rethink what I was trying to say."</p>
<p>As noted, I think her targetting of adcom employees is questionable. But the adcom is the "human face" to the selection process, and so it is not surprising she directs so much of her frustration against them.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>But the adcom is the "human face" to the selection process, and so it is not surprising she directs so much of her frustration against them.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>On the contrary, I find it quite surprising. Surprising that someone apparently that smart and accomplished could analyze an imperfect system and conclude that the big problem is that the adcoms aren't as special as she is.</p>
<p>oh please coureur the adcom is part of the process they are paid to reject to make the pile smaller. they are the human face in a process that is a nightmare and they draw a salary and a good one . starting in the 7th grade is right what childhood?. id love to know your background because if you think my voice is outrageous id like to know exactly where you fit in...you are obviously not living it. for one thing my senior class did not need an extra 2 1/2 hrs added to our SAT.
We take AP tests and exams throughout the SAT prep time. WHY...and look at how the tests are set up. WHY ARE THESE TESTS NOT OFFERED IN THE SUMMER when the kids are more relaxed!!! WHY? coureur id love you to direct your sharp wit in a more honest direction- help us voice our concerns and solve this significant problem that will only get worse. I am 17. Ive been studying for years plugging along and now the Miss America contest begins....give me a break!!!! I worry about my younger sisters and brothers facing this system regardless of where they attend college. AND the prices OMG. So dont be so "surprised"..........you are probably a parent who simply had to lick a stamp and send in an application with your grades and tops 600 SATs lol they are usually the ones giving out the lectures. I refuse to happily join up............I love to work hard but this is a joke!</p>
<p>PS thank you Ivy Alumni for listening to the truth about this distasteful industry. Read The Chosen just out. Interestingly these tests,Interviews and gradings were set up to keep out ethnic groups . Its all big business.</p>
<p>Kathy, I do sympathize with your feelings, and I think your distaste for the system is valid. We are creating a generation of kids who think they have to fit a certain mold to be acceptable and accepted by what popular opinion considers the best educational institutions. The institutions themselves seem to be looking for similar applicants - you can listen to college admissions presentations around the country and hear them all say how they're looking for passion, leadership, students taking the most challenging courses available, intellectual curiosity - they all seem to want the same person.
They talk about wanting diversity-but only if these diverse students fit into a particular type...the super-student. It must be very disheartening to have worked so hard to fit this picture of a perfect person and realize that you are going to have a difficult time distinguishing yourself from thousands of other kids who have worked as hard to present the same profile. I see it at my son's high school every year, and each year the resumes of the kids get longer and more similar. All APs, 700+ scores across the board, national merit commended, (at the very least), one and often two or three, sports, a laundry list of community service activities, one or two leadership roles, and the expectation of glowing recs and polished essays. Sometimes the only thing setting them apart is their sex and ethnic background.
My answer to this phenomenon, to those without the stomache for it, is to look for schools that are less "esteemed" by Joe Public, but are still excellent (and sometimes better) colleges. We are fortunate that our country has many such schools. Kids that insist on applying only to Ivy League schools or the equivalent are putting themselves in a box they don't have to be in. Have you considered looking seriously, as a first choice, not a safely, at places like Grinnell, Haverford, Carleton, Scripps, or WashU?
What about UVA, USC or one of the UCs? You don't have to buy into the system. You don't have to play the game at all- if you've the qualifications I think you have, many excellent schools would be thrilled to have you. But are you willing to recognize their value, or the value of the education beyond the name recognition?
This is a very stressful time for a lot of talented, deserving kids like yourself. It is a rather brutal game, but it doesn't have to be if you broaden your own view and look beyone the obvious and find a hidden gem that might be an even better fit for you. Good luck -- it will be over soon!</p>
<p>"Have you considered looking seriously, as a first choice, not a safely, at places like ... WashU?"</p>
<p>No school plays admissions games more than Wash U, I can sincerely say. They only waitlist kids from my school and then wait for confirmation that they will matriculate before taking them off the list because they think students from my school will use it as a match and not end up going there.</p>
<p>I've heard people claim that about WashU, and students at S's high school have had a similar expericence. However, my point was that if she would choose a school like WashU and let them know they were her first choice - perhaps an ED app - she would have a good chance of admission.
I do see your point, though, as WashU is becoming very selective.</p>
<p>Kathy Henderson~ You remind me of a few bright, over-wrought people I know...you've worked hard but are afraid that no one notices...if you are truly destined for greatness, you will find it no matter which college you attend. I applied SCEA and am calm and content with my fate, however it may turn out. However, you must drop the stress level and attitude. Relax and be happy with the person you are. Your frustrations will ease, and you will see the good aspects of the people around you. I wish you luck.</p>
<p>Speaking of Jeff Brenzel, he just posted on a thread. He could be watching everything we write. It's very Orwellian.</p>
<p>What I find troubling is the gratuitously insulting tone of Kathy Henderson's posting. It demeans her and the real argument she is trying to make. She seems so much better than that.</p>
<p>If she is looking for a unique intellectual experience instead of, as she so elegantly put it in another posting "a safe house for preppies", why not put down you want to do 'Directed Studies' or for that matter apply to the University of Chicago "Fundamentals" which amongst those in the know has at least the intellectual cachet of Yale? Chicago also offers an "uncommon application" which to my certain knowledge will give her the scope to explain why she wants to go there. </p>
<p>That being said, there is indeed something very false about a process that taints everyone involved with it. Maybe HPY should all opt for SCEA, set the intellectual bar even to apply SCEA at straight A for everyone, and use the SAT to normalize for differences in grading standards between schools. If the Kathy Hendersons of the world then get to explain on the supplemental SCEA application why they want to go to Yale specifically, it might be a bit less of a crapshoot.</p>
<p>If Kathy's point is that the Yale Supplemental form doesn't give her the room to explain why she thinks Yale fits her in a way Chicago or Harvard does not, that is something Jeff Brenzel should look at. If she goes on to suggest that the whole process is one of misguided social engineering driven by a moral perception of diversity that has nothing to do with the mission of a university, she should perhaps phrase this in terms that will not reflexively redound on herself.</p>
<p>I was falsely lead here thinking that I would learn more about the impact Jeffrey Brenzel. Does anyone know what changes he's made thus far in the admissions office?</p>
<hr>
<p>Also, I appreciate the concerns here, but I would recommend that this thread be renamed "A Discussion of Kathy Henderson." </p>
<p>Regardless, I am interested in whether or not you get into Yale, Kathy. Let us know somehow as soon as you've found out. Good luck to everyone who is applying.</p>
<p>He was my professor last year. Very knowledgeable about philosophy.</p>
<p>An aside:</p>
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<p>The key stats, when available, are, however, the cross-admit preferences - the choices made by the top students who are so "desirable" that they are admitted by two or more elites.</p>
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<p>Isn't the Revealed Preference ranking just that -- a ranking of schools based on cross-admit preference?</p>
<p>(Cf. <a href="http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf</a>)</p>
<p>Brenz Is The Best!</p>
<p>The RP rankings consider ALL head to head battles in a consolidated table, and are, in any case a survey, albeit an extensive one, for 3,500 applicants in 2000-2001.</p>
<p>Most elite colleges, on the other hand, try hard to obtain complete head-to-head (cross-admit) data vs. each of their leading rivals EVERY YEAR.</p>
<p>When you apply and tell your school your really really want it, number one, do they prefer to think you aren't even applying to the others (so that know they get you) and do you tell them no matter where else you get in, (implying HPY) you'll go there? I'm thinking the latter</p>