Jewish students aiming at top schools

College Search & Selection
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<p>It seems funny to me how there are so many threads about Asian students wanting to attend top schools, when one can say the exact same thing for Jewish students, but even more so.</p>

<p>Jewish students make up less than 2% of the college age population and yet they make as much as 30% of the student body of certain Ivy League schools.</p>

<p>Compare that w/ Asian students making 5% of the college age population and typically 15-18% of the student body at Ivy League schools.</p>

<p>Despite making up a smaller % of the pop., there is only one Ivy League school where Jewish students don't greatly outnumber Asian students and that would be Princeton (having about an equal % of Jewish and Asian students as of last year), ironically, the IL schools w/ reportedly, the most holistic admissions policy.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the greatest no. of Asian students in the US attend community college.</p>

<p>That's right, community college - not 4 year public or private universities, but CC.</p>

<p>After that, it's 4 year public universities, w/ private schools making up the smallest no. of Asian students.</p>

<p>Now, I haven't read up on the breakdown of where Jewish students matriculate (if there is such a source), but I'd harken that the majority of Jewish students don't attend community college.</p>

<p>Now, the same thing can be asked of WASP students from affluent suburban areas or for immigrant students from Africa and the Caribbean who, despite making up less than 10% of the US black pop., make up the majority of black students at the Ivies.</p>

<p>Or what about all those wealthy parents in Manhattan who fight to not only get their children into the elite private schools, but also into pre-school programs.</p>

<p>People all too often make the mistake of thinking that Asians are some monolithic group when it couldn't be further from the truth.</p>

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<p>The Jews already went through a period cerca 1900 to 1950 in which many were denied into top universities due to overrepresentation–numerus clausus. The overrepresentation of Jewish students led to the development of the formal legacy system as well, as many colleges stopped reporting religion (or at least discounting it as a factor) in favor of ethnic regulations.
And the majority of all college students are in community college.</p>

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<p>My grandfather actually changed our last name to something less noticeably Jewish so he and his brother had a better chance of getting into Penn in the late 40s. </p>

<p>It worked out for him as he was a Wharton grad and spent 30 years on wall street. Hopefully I can follow in his footsteps!</p>

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<p>Your argument is flawed in a few ways. 1, roughly 1 in 6 Americans aren’t even religious. 2, there are Jewish people who belong in that category. 3, Jewish students only make up 30% at two Ivies. (Harvard and Penn)</p>

<p>4, you’re clumping all Asians together. A lot of southeast Asian students, considered URMs, attend Community Colleges. There are plenty that attend the Ivies, but it can be seen that most of these students are of Chinese, Korean, Japanese, or Indian descent. So, you’re comparing apples to oranges.</p>

<p>Lastly, schools separate Asians and International students. At most schools I know of, the list where students come from goes something like this… China, Korea, India… etc. </p>

<p>You do make a great point, but like all arguments, there are a few flaws.</p>

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<p>Or, I guess you can compare the two, and just say they’re equal.</p>

<p>[Do</a> colleges redline Asian-Americans? - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/02/08/do_colleges_redline_asian_americans/]Do”>http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/02/08/do_colleges_redline_asian_americans/)</p>

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<p>In addition to what Stevef was reporting, Jews have been blatantly discriminated in the past and denied access to many universities. It may not seem so now, but the history speaks for itself. It is unfortunate that stereotypes exist about Asian applicants, but I worry that this thread could take on an anti-semitic flavor. Let’s please not go there.</p>

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<p>Interesting analysis… Something not commonly found on this site.</p>

<p>Mind you, not saying this is right or wrong, but something to think about. </p>

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<p>Maggiedog, I hope people don’t think it is anti semetic to just point this info out? For instance, if someone says the NBA is 90% black despite a black population of 15%, that wouldn’t be considered racist, right?</p>

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<p>Trollnyc,</p>

<p>I understand your point. However, the thread started out as follows:</p>

<p>“Jewish students aiming at top schools
It seems funny to me how there are so many threads about Asian students wanting to attend top schools, when one can say the exact same thing for Jewish students, but even more so.”</p>

<p>The thread didn’t start out as one commenting on the numerous, often unfair criticisms against Asian students, or the struggles they face which makes it harder for them to get into colleges due to unspoken racial quota systems. It started out with a focus on Jewish students. </p>

<p>And it should be noted that the last time I checked, "Jewish’ was not listed as a racial category like Caucasian or Asian on college applications. It is a religious faith. </p>

<p>While many would argue that Asians as a group are portrayed with stereotypical assumptions that hinder their college application acceptances (and which I personally feel is unfair to them), the flavor that I perceived in the OP’s post had an uncomfortable feeling to me. Maybe it’s just my overreaction. But it sort of felt like - hey, why are you all picking on the Asians, when the Jews are getting away with so much more. Again, maybe an overreaction, but when we’re talking about ethnic/religious/racial groups, I think a lot of care should be taken.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the OP was trying to be anti-semitic. </p>

<p>I think he/she was trying to downplay Asian students’ prevalence in top schools (it sounded a bit condescending towards Asians).</p>

<p>I think the OP could possibly be Jewish and is just trying to indicate that Jews have been able to overcome a similar barrier, to great success.</p>

<p>I go to a Jewish school, and I hear these statistics all the time. It’s just a sense of pride, which is good. What is not, is the underlying condescension towards another group.</p>

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<p>The OP is Asian and has commented extensively on the Asians Applying to Top Schools thread. The OP believes that Asians are discriminated against in college admissions at elite colleges. That point can be validly debated. However, if the OP is advocating (by implication) discriminating against Jews instead (that’s been done), then this thread is anti-semitic.</p>

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<p>Perhaps Asians aren’t a higher percentage in Ivy League schools because of the nature of what disciplines are studied/offered. It could be that large numbers of Asians are into more technical fields like engineering than liberal arts. With the exception of Cornell and Princeton, the IL is not really known for strong engineering programs.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, the explanation is that asians are often treated as over-represented, and that therefore, their numbers at the top schools are being held down, while jews may be being treated as regular whites, and not as a distinct over-represented group whose numbers need to be held down. In other words, the asians are the ones being told that they have to give up seats at the top schools to make room for URMs. </p>

<p>If things were done strictly on merit, there would be a lot more asians in the top schools.</p>

<p>I think the unpleasant secret not being overtly stated is that for whatever reasons, there would be very few URMs at the top schools if not for significant affirmative action. </p>

<p>Asians and jews routinely get SAT scores that very few URMs get. Hence, the movement at some schools to get rid of SATs, or to engage in so-called “holistic” admission standards, which in my view are simply subjective admission standards that often have pre-determined target racial admission outcomes: X% of that URM group, and Y% of that URM group.</p>

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<p>I did what I did intentionally to make a point.</p>

<p>What I stated, while not outwardly anti-Semetic, could tho, very well be read that way.</p>

<p>However, when the exact same type of statements are made about Asian-students, funny how most people here don’t bat an eye, and instead, pile on by making gross generalizations about Asian students (such as Asian students not being as “passionate” about their ECs, all playing the violin, piano or tennis, etc.).</p>

<p>Posters here seem a lot more carefree to make such stereotypical comments about Asians that they wouldn’t dare do about Jews, blacks, etc., but that’s hardly surprising since that’s been a common thing in society.</p>

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<p>True - but then why would schools like USC and Vandy feel the need to specifically recruit more Jewish students (esp. when Jewish students weren’t exactly underrepresented when taking into account US demographics).</p>

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<p>The groups w/ the highest % of students in CC are Asians and blacks.</p>

<p>Whites lag a bit behind and I would estimate that Jews lag way, way behind.</p>

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<p>Schools like Vandy are looking to recruit any non-WASP student. </p>

<p>I think you’re being a little rash here. Yes, some things people say about Asian students aren’t the most PC things to say, but to compare that to Blacks and Jews is a different matter. </p>

<p>And the fact that you’re not in the least bit apologetic about making an anti-semitic comment makes you no better than those you criticize.</p>

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<p>It doesn’t matter whether Jews or Americans in general are religious or not.</p>

<p>Schools don’t care what religions Asians practice despite the diversity (wider range than any racial group) - Buddhism, Christianity (all kinds), Cheondoism, Shinto, Hindusim, Islam (all kinds), Taoism, Confucianism, Sikhism, Cao Dai, Tenrikyo, etc. or no religion at all, and yet, schools like USC and Vandy felt the need to recruit more Jewish students.</p>

<p>Gee, Jewish students “only” make up 30% of the student body at 2 Ivies.</p>

<p>They make up 25% at most other Ivies.</p>

<p>30%, 25%, or heck, even 20% - that’s an amazing % when college-age Jews make up less than 2% of the US pop.</p>

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<p>Uhm, I’m doing the exact opposite; it’s the top universities which are clumping the Asians together.</p>

<p>When it comes to defending the overly high % of black students who are children of immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean, it’s b/c these colleges want more “diversity”.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, these schools do absolutely nothing to attract more Asian students from ethnic groups like Cambodians, Hmong, etc. - and instead, they go overseas to attract foreign Asian students from the same places (China, India, Korea and Japan - all the places w/ wealthy Asians).</p>

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<p>I know that.</p>

<p>Most of the Asian-Americans attending elite schools are Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, Indian and Japanese) - so if there are enough of these Asians at these schools already, why do they want to recruit foreign Asians from of the same ethnic background?</p>

<p>Why don’t they do more for low-income Cambodian or Hmong students from the US or for that matter, low income American Chinese, Korean, etc. students?</p>

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<p>I think I more than adequately addressed your counter-arguments (which are quite flawed themself).</p>

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<p>Um, schools don’t exactly look at religion when it comes to admissions, so why should it matter for whites who are not Christian (I mean, really, they don’t care if the white student is Christian or an atheist or agnostic)?</p>

<p>Why should religious breakdowns matter here? (It’s not like these schools care what religion their Asian, black or Hispanic students practice.)</p>

<p>And if you want to go down that path, since for many Ivies, WASPs are underrepresented and since that Jews are the most overrepresented, one could make an argument that room should be made for more WASP students (which is just silly).</p>

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<p>How is making generalizations about Asian not any worse than that for Jews or Blacks (esp. in the case for Jews when the same generalizations can be made for Jews - studious, play violin/piano - likely to go into medicine, law or business/finance)? lol</p>

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<p>Geeze, you really don’t get it, do you?</p>

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<p>You have some misconception that the Blacks at top colleges are not qualified, it seems.Black students at those schools are just as qualified as the white and Asian students.</p>

<p>Colleges DO try to help the URM Asian students. (have you not noticed the scroll-down checkbox for different asian groups?). </p>

<p>There are religious and cultural Jews. You keep saying this 2% like it’s written in stone. For all we know, it could be 5% (Just like Asians). A lot of cultural Jewish people I know (which, from my knowledge, make up a hefty bunch) are not religious. That’s the point I was getting at - they fit into that 16% of non-religious people. </p>

<p>Your comparing of Blacks to southeast Asians is not an apples to apples comparison. Blacks make up a large percentage (~13%) of our country, while Hmong, Cambodians, etc. make up a very small percentage (they make up part of the 1.3 million “other” Asians in the US, which is less than .5%). So, the numbers are proportionate, in that sense.</p>

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<p>But the top colleges have not been going overseas to attract many foreign Asian students. The latter practice you’re describing pertains more to some smaller schools and a few state schools that are perhaps short on funding such that they need the full pay students, which is completely understandable. The situation is different at different institutions: you lose the validity on your argument once you start mixing everything ;)</p>

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<p>And, honestly, what’s so bad about wanting to go to medical or law school, or playing a plethora of instruments?</p>

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<p>I would never advocate that.</p>

<p>My point is that the exact same thing happened to Jews in the past, and yet many posters here feel comfortable in coming up w/ all these “rationales” about limiting Asian representation at the elite private schools.</p>

<p>Mind you, the exact same type of rationales that were used against Jews in the past.</p>

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<p>Absolutely nothing; and yet many people here have used that as a rationale against Asian students.</p>