S24 is applying to a variety of schools as a music/economics/math major. At this point his goal is something finance related, probably being in quantitative finance. We have been having many, many discussions about the need for a big name school (T20, highly regarded LAC) vs middle name school (T20-100 or less regarded LAC) vs state school for this specific path. H and I are in fields where the school makes no difference. We have the funds set aside for him to go any school he wants, but obviously it makes no sense to spend 150,000 more if it is not needed. So, for finance, is school more important? Is the ROI for this specific field different than medicine or education?
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@Catcherinthetoast your thoughts?
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You will definitely have schools that “deliver” vs. others where it’s harder to get to the point you want - but no school is an assurance and none is a deathknell when there is hustle and ambition.
But schools like MIT, Penn, CMU are likely to over deliver vs. say - U of Utah, etc.
There’s others with more experience but that’s my belief.
Quant finance will be different than traditional or corporate finance or investment finance.
Good luck.
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@blossom your thoughts?
So the thought is Williams vs Vanderbilt vs Emory vs Binghamton/UVM is the price point for Williams worth it for full pay for this specific path?
Are you not full pay at the other schools? Is your kid interested in the liberal arts experience and all that entails?
he is up for arts scholarships that will bring COA down significantly
Williams has no merit. I wouldn’t think of an LAC but rather schools like CMU or MIT OR Penn or NYU or Ga Tech UT Austin too and for value Purdue although studies in Econ and Math might get you there at Williams.
You might check the offerings and outcomes from each school related to this area via the career centers.
Should the student pursue something in IB instead, Williams would be a great choice based on reported placements.
You might look up some firms and job titles of interest on LinkedIn and look at the schools placing in those roles. Then look up UVM and Bing to see if they are placing in those roles and organizations (with similar roles).
It would likely be easier from the big name, connected schools but is it worth the extra $$ as you asked ? Only you can decide. Just don’t forget, even at the top schools success is far from assured.
Finally, reading various articles online related to quants specifically, further education beyond a BS is often required and many schools seem to offer it.
So the path to the role, for many, may not be a straight line but perhaps some work experience followed by a Masters.
Good luck.
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Simple answer is yes. I banks tend to recruit the majority of their analysts from a small minority of schools.
Kids do find their way in from “outlier” schools but often there is a story involved. That can be a personal connection, a unique skill or academic background, diversity, etc.
For a high performing but (using CC terminology) unhooked kid it is extremely tough to find your way into an analyst class at a major IB from a lesser tier school.
Only you can decide if it’s worth the spend but the opportunities are meaningfully different.
These differences become particularly acute if your kid isn’t the absolute tippy top at a second tier. By example the3rd quartile Ivy kid will likely have a better shot then the not exactly the top kid at a lesser school.
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So would you consider Williams Vandy Emory the same?
All are represented on Wall Street but Williams far outperforms the other two in my experience.
Emory is a great school but in my entire career I have not seen more than 2-3 Emory alum. Vandy does have a growing presence but it is not historically well represented.
Williams on the other hand is smaller yet has a much bigger alum network, stronger reputation and established track record.
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You have an important hurdle to consider here- “something finance related, probably being in quantitative finance” suggests a whole lotta “kinda sorta maybe” going on.
Most HS kids have a vague idea of what finance is; a shaky idea of what quants do, and NO idea about what a quant career path is all about.
So if it were my kid, I’d be encouraging him to find a solid, overall fit-school where he can explore many different disciplines.
Yes- the school matters. Quant hiring for the initial job is very narrow. Math majors from Harvard, Chicago. CS majors from MIT and Cal Tech. Engineering from Princeton. And a sprinkling of others. But some outliers too- Stonybrook (where Quant finance was pretty much invented). Swarthmore.
I would NOT be picking a college based on “something finance related”. You can get a job in finance coming out of a very wide range of colleges. And “probably being in quantitative finance” is SUCH a narrow field, that going to the “right” college for it is zero guarantee that a kid will want that path, or even get to start along that path. You can have the right resume-- and bomb the first round interview (usually a test of some sort-- both technical skills and logic) and then- that’s it. Cross that firm off the list.
Princeton has a highly regarded grad program-- Bendheim Center for Finance- and there are others- which is another (in my mind, better) on-ramp. At that point, you’re no longer a kid who thinks “gee, I like math, I’m going to be a quant”- you’ve actually been to college, studied the music, econ, math, and everything else you’re interested in-- and so you’re making a career decision based on real knowledge.
So unless your son is already creating high speed trading algorithms in his free time, and has turned his savings from his lawn mowing business into a million dollar fund… I’d encourage him to zero in on a list of colleges (music, econ, math will yield a robust list of schools) which cover various affordable price points and take it from there. Quant finance is a very “pointy field” so without a real understanding of what those folks do all day, I’d be reluctant to steer my kid in that direction.
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You asked about quant finance so it’s a bit different but here’s one of many feeder lists to Wall Street. Use the second as its per capita.
I’m not expert to the field but based on everything I’ve read there’s a large distinction between quant finance ( DE Shaw, Bridgewater etc. my son reached out to one at the recommendation of a poster here and they reached out for testing the next day. He was an engineering major at a lower tier SEC school).
My comments are related to quant and why I think the set of schools is different than IB and maybe required a different educational level. I just looked some up on LinkedIn and it does appear to be the case.
But here is an IB feeder list. Can’t find the same specific to quant finance.
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All true but he has spent his hs career working on music so he is just starting to think these things over. He has a list of schools that are of interest to him and where he could be happy. My questions was about if he gets into multiple is there a benefit to higher cost of attendance for Williams or brown vs Emory or Vanderbilt vs uvm, all of which he has already decided are good fits for him.
A student with a career interest in finance who may major in economics could benefit from considering the availability of courses in topics such as accounting, corporate finance, international finance, financial economics and financial econometrics when comparing colleges.
I think @blossom is offering great advice. She is very clear that quant hiring is done from a narrow band of schools. But if this kid is just thinking about these things…great to go to a place where he can get an excellent education AND explore various options.
Do you have a college annual budget? Would any of these colleges exceed that budget?
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When I read this, it tells me mom or dad are value shoppers. You’re full pay and can afford it but emotionally you’ll struggle to do so.
Many of us are in this boat. So make sure you can handle signing that $40k + check 2x a year plus all the extras not charged direct.
I couldn’t. Both mine went to value and safety schools but in my case both chose them so no persuasion was involved.
My daughter, not in finance, got into a school on that feeder list but could not attend. Why ? We set a budget and it came in $30k+ over - ie no merit. And that was our rule. Make budget or no go. She wouldn’t have wanted to go anyway Vs where she is.
So before applying to a Williams or pricey and excellent W&M, make sure you won’t give yourself a heart attack if your student chooses. You matter too. W&M at least offers merit although it’s near impossible to get. In our case, she couldn’t apply to Williams as they offer no merit. I’m not sure if the arts money you mentioned will come from a private source or not.
Yea we all want our kids to achieve their goals and I agree at 17, they rarely know.
But mom and dad need to have comfort too and if you don’t (sounds like you don’t), put in financial guard rails to ensure you stay within your comfort zone, even if it minimizes the chance to reach the dream. It won’t eliminate it !!.
Good luck.
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Thank you! Very helpful. Our older one went to a value school so we have the money sitting for this one. It seems crazy to possibly give up a significant scholarship to an excellent school like Emory if he gets it, but if this is needed for a career in finance then it is worth while. We dont have the issue spending the money if it is needed. I just know that in our field it makes absolutely no difference where you go to school (and that is hammered to kids here on CC over and over and over again) But for finance it does seem to be very important, and saving 150K for a lack of opportunity in the future seems foolhardy.
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I hope the OP clarifies this assumption.
There are many of us who decided or will decide to be full pay…because we can. Or because they feel there is value to doing so.
I wouldn’t put words into the OPs mouth.
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What @blossom wrote is what I read online and have seen in some profiles on LinkedIn including UVM ones - it’s not just finance in that field but a lot of CS too and other majors such as engineering etc. .
If you get big money from Emory, it would be hard to turn down. I have a lot left in the 529 so I was concerned. But there’s grad school maybe, grandkids or starting next year yiu can put into a Roth IRA for the kids penalty free.
On the flipside, if you get big money for the arts, will the student be allowed the time or capability to pursue this quant interest ?
Finally if they’re just discovering this interest than it’s highly likely it’s not going to stick as they discover and experience other areas.