<p>Less EC time is the least of it --- there's also the time and effort required to actually study and take those 6 AP tests next spring. That's a huge undertaking in and of itself, especially if the teachers require out of class meetings as many AP teachers do.</p>
<p>marite -- to clarify, he needs to take the Advanced Algebra/Trig course to get into regular calculus. It will also "qualify" him for AP calculus if he so desires, but he hasn't made that decision yet. </p>
<p>Carolyn -- Thanks for such a detailed and well thought out reply, even if you gave me a sex change operation, i.e. "whether she believes her son . . ."! You have raised exactly the points my wife and I are struggling with -- for any particular child, what's the happy medium between a challenging courseload and grade sacrifice. I'm actually a big fan of AP, so my perspective is somewhat different than yours -- but it's such a fine line. You're absolutely correct -- the big issue for is is his ability to maintain or improve his GPA with his proposed course load. And that does depend on his ability to motivate himself. I will say that he was the one who brought this schedule home in the first place with no nudging from us, which was a little surprising. But does he really, truly, have the initiative do handle this schedule? Dunno, that's what we're trying to find out!</p>
<p>Iderochi - I'm laughing reading the other posts - you have to get an idea of what the courses are like at his school. If he needs that "hardest courseload possible" box checked, he may need to take an AP heavy schedule - a discussion with the GC may be in order.
All of us who have been here a year or so, know what Carolyn's daughter went through in AP Euro, but my daughter's experience couldn't have been more different - she also took the class as a sophmore, made As both semesters, I won't say it was easy, it wasn't, but she wasn't up all night either, and made a 4 on the exam. Her teacher, who is a friend, says the classes' grades on the exam (which were in aggregate the highest the school had ever had) were a little low because she had never taught the class before and only found out that she was going to teach it on the day school started that year! LAst year's AP Euro scores were higher still, and when DD went on to APUSH last year(same teacher), she sailed through and made a 5, although she actually studied harder for class tests in APUSH.
My only point is that the difficulty of the class is dependent on the teacher, and to a lesser extent on the material, and may vary school to school, teacher to teacher, and year to year. It is interesting that the experience can be so different, but the exam the same.</p>
<p>Ireochi - SORRY, didn't mean to switch your sex without your permission. :) </p>
<p>I think you need to look at how your son handles homework and tests now --- is he the type of kid that comes home and sits down and gets started on his own without prodding from you? When he has several major tests or assignments due on the same day is he pretty good at self-scheduling his time? Does he tend to get stressed out when he is faced with academic overload? OR does he thrive on challenge? I'd also ask him to consider what he will have to give up in order to handle that course load ---
and I'm not just talking about EC's. My daughter's social life pretty much went out the window with one AP class last year.</p>
<p>Finally, something else to consider is that there is quite a bit of peer pressure about AP classes --- kids see their friends signing up for six AP classes, so they think they will "fall behind" if they don't do the same, even if five or four would be a better choice for them. I'd ask your son directly about what his friends are doing next year and whether their choices are influencing his choices. </p>
<p>I also would recommend that you go sit down with the guidance counselor and discuss what would happen if the workload really is too intense for your son --- how long will he have at the beginning of the year to drop one or more of those AP classes if necessary? CAN he drop one of the AP classes (one of the reasons my daughter didn't drop AP Euro after getting a C first quarter was that her school has a rule that if you drop an AP you can not take further AP's in that department) and how will it look on his transcript if he drops one mid-year? I'd also want to hear what the guidance counselor has to say about how kids with slightly less intense course schedules do in college admissions. </p>
<p>I'm sure you will make the right choice for your son.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Cangel - as I said, my daughter's AP Euro teacher was a PHD and former college history professor intent on being a slavedriver. Not all AP classes are taught that way --- so as Cangel suggests, it is a good idea to get more information. I'd suggest actually asking the AP teachers themselves how much of a workload there is in these classes to get a clearer picture of what your son will be facing. At some schools, AP classes really aren't all that bad.</p>
<p>bluebayou -- In our district, Advanced Algebra with Trig leads to either:</p>
<p>Calculus
AP Calculus (with a 90 or better)
Advanced Intro to Calculus</p>
<p>The "regular" Algebra with Trig can only lead to: </p>
<p>Intro to Calculus
Pre-Calculus
(As G od is my witness, I have no idea what the difference is, despite re-reading the course descriptions numerous times)</p>
<p>So if S wants to at least hold open the posibility of taking calculus, he needs to take the advanced algebra.</p>
<p><<finally, something="" else="" to="" consider="" is="" that="" there="" quite="" a="" bit="" of="" peer="" pressure="" about="" ap="" classes="">> </finally,></p>
<p>Not in his school! Well, not really. While the school has a good, robust AP program the school itself is pretty middle-of- the-road academically, with a lot of students there who focus on curricula that is not college prep oriented -- with a lot of Air Force kids and farmer kids, the Military Science track and the Agriscience track are well-represented. I don't think there's a lot of academic peer pressure. I know that when S got his PSAT's back (177 as a sophomore) There was some teasing of him as a "bookworm", "brain", etc. I thought 177 was a fine score, and told him so -- but I was surprised that it would lead to those types of comments. </p>
<p>It looks like we're going to have a very productive meeting with the GC next week, based on all the tips and advice I have receicved. I want to take the time to thank everybody -- while I semi-regularly contribute to CC, I very rarely start a thread, and I have been overwhelmed by how helpful you all are.</p>
<p>Ldreochi, caryloyn, marite: Ldreochi do not think you should be worrying about GPA if your son decides to take a harder course load? Why not let him live up to his potential BIG IF he likes to do it so. I would say taking an easier course load in order to get a better GPA is trying to game the system in order to qualify for a better school. On other hand he may not know if he likes another course to pursue. Our son is done with math and science APs in 10th grade but he found out that he loved humanities more than any other subject by taking early on the harder humanity courses. I think if someone in high school takes a harder course load in order to see what he or she would like to do in college, it is a good idea.</p>
<p>parentny, I agree with you that I don't want to see my S "game" the system. But to me, gaming the system would be if somebody who should clearly take AP courses elects to take non-APs for the sole purpose of boosting his or her GPA. I think what's mostly being discussed here is how to find a happy medium of challenging coursework that wont' be so overwhelming that it will only lead to discouragement along with lower grades. To go back to what another poster said, we really want him to maintain his solid B/B+ (well, I SAY solid, but I just got an e-mail from his Spanish teacher with his weekly progress report . . . hmmm) average. I'm not sure that the benefits of a heavy AP load outweigh a potential slide into C+ territory (or worse).</p>
<p>I think you have the right idea. Meeting with the GC and/or teachers, finding the happy medium for him. None of this was ever a question with my daughter - she is graduating with every AP the school offered, except Studio Art, but my son will be different. His college goals will be different; his grades, different; and now the curriculum is different. He will have to make some of these choices your son is making.
Post a followup, please, I'm interested to hear what the counselor says.</p>
<p>Iderochi:</p>
<p>I was responding to your comment that your S does just what is necessary. Sometimes, raising the bar will evoke greater effort and enhance the chances of success. Sometimes, it leads to disaster. It depends on each student. My two kids are polar opposites: one is nervous, the other nerveless.
Some students try harder in harder courses and get better grades; conversely, they underachieve in easier courses, slack off big time and get lower grades. Other students have anxious personalities, easily succumb to pressure, do not test well; these students, though often just as bright, should not be pushed beyong their comfort zone. You know your S best, and what he is capable of intellectually as well as psychologically. Both are equally important. </p>
<p>On the math, I just wanted to reassure you that it is not necessary to take AP-Calculus in order to get into a very selective school. But algebra/trig (or precalculus) is definitely expected at such schools. My older S took pre-calculus in 11th and advanced math in 12th grade.</p>
<p>My d is also in this process too. Due to religion requirement electives are very few. She took Alg 1 and Geo in jr hs but failed the hs placement test. So she has repeated (some new stuff as the curriculum didn't align) both subjects in the honors track. She wants to take alg2/trig over the summer so she can take honors preclac in jr. year and calc sr year. The school refuses to accept web-based or online course-work. She is going to take the summer class anyway and effectively have a two track math sequence for the next year in a half. One online accelerated and the other honors but not accelerated at school. The problem is the school will not let her into AP physics senior year without being concurently enrolled in calc. (which she will take but not through the school) and she will not be allowed in the math honor society. The school would have allowed her to accelerate through their summer school prior to 9th or 10th grade but club sport abligations prior to 9th grade made that class imposssible and she choose to take pre ap bio (required to be take AP bio) in the summer prior to 10th grade. This summer Alg2-trig is not being offered. The local public hs only offers the course for remediation not acceleration. The only possible option is to take 2 CC courses alg 2(intermediate alg) and plane geometry (which I believe incorporates trig). What a bummer though... pay tuition and pay more tuition and get penalized and not get recongnized and have to self study for AP physics and AP and or SAT 2 calculus :( We feel it's important for her to accelerate to be prepared to take the SAT 2 math and AP calc if she wants to.</p>
<p>Curious - some of the AP classes your son is signing up for are only open to seniors at my daughter's school (Government/Economics, Literature). 3 APs for a junior is not unusual my daughter's school, but they are usually AP English Language, AP US History, and perhaps an AP science or one of the "elective" APs. </p>
<p>What do your son's teachers recommend? Perhaps you should contact/conference with his history teacher.</p>
<p>Path1:</p>
<p>Few students actually take AP Physics C, and those that do take AP-Calc either before or concurrently. It is really helpful. If your D is a bit weak in math, there is no reason to take AP-Physics (S#1 did not take any AP Science of AP-Calc, though he took Honors Science 3 years (bio, chem and physics) and 4 years of math.</p>
<p>Firefly, yes it seems to me that schools really vary on when AP's are available/expected. Our S's school has the following list of AP's (pending sufficient enrollment) and who is eligible:</p>
<p> AP English 11 (11)
AP Problems of Democracy (11,12)
Studio Art (10, 11, 12)
AP English 12 (12)
AP Calculus (12)
AP Comparative Government (10,11, 12)
AP Psychology (10, 11, 12)
AP Statisics (11, 12)
Languages (Spanish, French, Latin) (12)
AP U.S. History (10, 11, 12)
AP History of Art (10, 11, 12)
AP Govt and Politics (10, 11, 12)
AP Microeconomics (10, 11, 12)
AP Macroeconomics (10, 11, 12)
AP European History (10, 11, 12)
AP Human Geography (10, 11, 12)
AP Physics (12)
AP Chemistry (12)</p>
<p>So the social science courses are pretty much open to everybody. I can tell you that in S's AP U.S. History Course, all but one person are sophomores, which seems odd to me. I would say that US History is about the only course that sophomores take, most everything else is Junior and Senior.</p>
<p>At my school, most AP's are very grade specific:
AP Bio: 11, 12
AP Chem: 11, 12
AP Calc AB: 11, 12
AP Calc BC: 12
AP European History: 11
AP US History: 10
AP Computer Science AB: 10, 11, 12
AP Physics C: 11, 12
AP Government (US): 12
AP English Literature: 12
AP foreign Language (German, Spanish, French), level IV if started in 9th grade, level V if started in 8th grade: 12</p>
<p>Thanks Marite, it isn't that she's weak in math. We want to make sure she's well prepared to major in any field she chooses, and is viewed as a well prepared applicant. It was very disappointing to lose two years of math standing due to the lack of alignment between the public jr high (graded 'failing' under no child left behind) and the private hs we chose for her. We'd like to recoup a year of it. Whether she takes the physics and calculus tests is up to her but we want her to be on a track to make that choice herself. I find it very difficult to deal with the rigid admin at her school. She does better with it than I do.</p>
<p>I promised a few folks that I would let them know what the GC said, and I didn't want you to think that I had forgotten. Unfortunately it became on of "those" weeks and the meeting fell by the wayside. Long story short, the week involved several days of baseball tryouts, comforting a teen who didn't make the team, congratulating the same teen for being accepted as a full member of the local volunteer fire department, taking the teen to get fitted for firefighting equipment, DW scrambling to finish up her bar application in time for a March 15 deadline and, last but not least, dealing with the other DS who got suspended from riding the bus to KINDERGARTEN (don't ask -- I think I need to drop MomOfWildChild a note -- sounds like I'm on the same track with this one). So anyway, the meeting is in the process of being rescheduled, I'll bump this thread then.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>dealing with the other DS who got suspended from riding the bus to KINDERGARTEN (don't ask -- I think I need to drop MomOfWildChild a note -- sounds like I'm on the same track with this one). <<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>lderochi - my best laugh of the day! I know it isn't funny to you, but it brings back such memories. When my two were 4th grade and kindergarten, I tried sending them to school in a day care van - it was a disaster, the bus often delivered them late to school because they were last on the drop-off list, they each got into trouble once, but not as badly as some of the other children who were dragged off the bus in hysterics! Anyway, after a few weeks I began muttering as I as was bundling them into the car for the trip to the day care center - "We have to go catch the stupid bus" reply "Do we HHAAAAVVEEE to ride the stupid bus??". I'm not sure when the day care bus acquired the capital letters, but now it is the "Stupid Bus", and they still complain about the year they rode to school on the Stupid Bus. I feel your pain!</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>dealing with the other DS who got suspended from riding the bus to KINDERGARTEN (don't ask -- I think I need to drop MomOfWildChild a note -- sounds like I'm on the same track with this one). <<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Sorry, but I HAVE to ask about this one. Like Cangel, I had a good chuckle over the picture this formed in my mind. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, congrats to your older S for making the fire department - quite an achievement!</p>