<p>which college is more competitive/harder to get into</p>
<p>Fordham College at Rose Hill</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>CBA at Rose Hill?</p>
<p>buuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmp</p>
<p>cba.<br>
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<p>I dont know about that, hannah. I dont have the specific stats to prove my point, but anecdotally the kids my D knows who were in her Freshman dorm last year and who were on full rides or near full rides and had uber high stats were all Fordham College kids, and Honors kids and they all stated that they had (my D certainly had) more difficult stuff going on. Not to say really bright kids dont get into CBA and that its not very competitive (and certainly is highly competitive once you are in school). And I am not aware of any significant difference in the admissions criteria for either school. Fordham College-Rose Hill is the largest of the three colleges for residential students at Fordham University, but I would not presume from that fact that its any less competitive and easier to gain admission. If Fordham has stats to prove me wrong, fine. Such as the fact that CBA has fewer seats available. But I also think it has fewer applicants. </p>
<p>I can assure you and the OP that whether you are admitted to CBA, Rose Hill or LC, you will be plenty challenged and its highly competitive. Every year, after the first set of midterms, Fordham has to notify parents their children are doing miserably and it would be best for them to leave. That opens up space, but it also helps families get some percentage of their tuition back before a total meltdown occurs and a final set of grades appears on a transcript. Anyone who thinks that going to Fordham is going to be cake walk is in for a surprise. They work you plenty hard and the workload can be overwhelming at times. In fact, comparing anecdotally to my D's friends at other schools, some of them HIGHLY ranked schools, she worked a lot harder than they did Freshman year. </p>
<p>Again, if Fordham or you have specific stats to prove me wrong, fine. But I just wanted you to know what is going on at Fordham College. Btw, they all room together Freshmen year (as individual choices are made about dorms). Sophomore year, CBA kids are in the upper classman dorms as well, but have designated floors so that they are together more. There were kids in my D's dorm last year up and down the hallways, at Fordham College, who had uber high SAT's and GPA's. Some very, very impressive students from all over the country. </p>
<p>So to answer the OP's question, in my opinion, apply to the school where you will fit the best and consistent with your intentions for a major. If its accounting and finance, then CBA is your thing. If its Economics and Political Science, then Fordham College is where you want to be. Its pretty clear.</p>
<p>hmm ... i have also heard opposite views on this .. that is why i am curious .. anyone else know?</p>
<p>It's not unusual for a specific program or school within a university to be more popular, and thus more competetive. I suspect this is the case with Business at FU. The COB is ranked at 27 by Business Week, the University is ranked in the low sixties by USNWR ... so I'd guess more kids are trying to get into the business school than they have room for ... so does that make it more difficult - sure! </p>
<p>As with any highly ranked program, the COB can select the best and brightest from an even more narrow pool. That doesn't mean the best and brightest of FU are all in COB, just that among those seeking an undergrad degree in business it's pretty competetive. And it should be.</p>
<p>As an u.g business school graduate myself, I might suggest that getting a Liberal Arts u.g. degree and an MBA may indeed be a better course anyway. But as ever, what matters is what fits your situation best.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>What dad says is true. However, I would hesitate to compare the Business School ranking in Newsweek with the overall University ranking in USNWR National Universities. Its apples and oranges and a much, much more difficult group of peer schools in the National Rankings. </p>
<p>Again, if someone can show me that the admissions stats for CBA students is different from those of Fordham College-Rose Hill, I will gladly defer. But I dont think there is much difference, if any at all.</p>
<p>i'd say there is a pretty big difference that gets overlooked between CBA and FCRH or FCLC. That has to do with the amount of classes. Forget the kind of work you have to do in the classes for a moment. In CBA you HAVE to take 5 classes every semester if you want to graduate on time. They will accept no less. The only way to get out of that of course is by coming in with college credits/ap credits/ etc. As far as I know, in FCRH for at least half the time you're here, you will be taking 4 classes per semester. That's a big difference. And it has to do with the credit hours mostly. Classes in CBA are generally 3 credits while liberal arts are 4. So if you want to compare course work, you'll probably have MORE work to do in CBA than in FCRH/LC. However that doesn't mean it's necessarily HARDER work. For example, I'm taking six classes right now in CBA. I can do this for 2 reasons, aside from getting permission: 1) some professors are jokes, and 2) certain classes you simply don't need to do much in to get a good grade. I'm surprised that CBA ranks so highly to be honest. I think most of the professors and classes are jokes, at least for the business core classes. Some are pretty academically stimulating, and get you to have interesting topics, but they are far and few in between I'd say. I wonder sometimes, whether that means that the professors/classes in FCRH/LC are of lower quality, because that would be even worse.</p>
<p>Also if nocousin is talking about the residential college in O'Hare in regards to sophomores being in upper-classman dorms, this is not true. At Fordham, there are no dorms that are designated 'upper-classman', only ones that are designated freshman. O'Hare has a bunch of sophomores in it, at least more than juniors and seniors. This has to do with the fact that most juniors/seniors are in Walsh hall or off-campus.</p>
<p>Another thing, if you want to make some money after graduating, assuming you don't want to stay in academia, then you'll find that a lot of the job fairs here cater towards CBA students (specifically accounting and finance). It drives me nuts. But that's the driving force in CBA, account/finance. That's another thing to take into account. That's not to say you can't studying something in the liberal arts and not get a job in one of those industries, but you'll have a much tougher time I'd say.</p>
<p>My reference to upperclassmen dorms was not meant in the strict sense of the term, only that sophomores, juniors and seniors live in separate dorms from the freshmen. That is all. Dont read too much into that. Taking a class of 3 credits means there is less work to do, generally, as you meet fewer times per week. But that can be deceptive as well. If you think that Fordham's CBA classes are a joke, that is often said about many business classes, particularly the non accounting courses at many undergrad business colleges. Fordham's rank is based on many factors that Business Week uses. Job fairs do tend to focus on finance people. That is true everywhere. Liberal arts kids have to work a bit harder to find jobs, but often they are just as successful, particularly if they enter the business or banking world. Caveat: that was before the new paradigm of wallstreet meltdown and economic malaise. Good people with a strong work ethic, clear focus and a positive attitude usually find jobs. </p>
<p>Careers can be very serendipitous. A lot of people start out in one area and then something happens and they move or change careers or opportunities open up, often in areas not related to their major area of study in college. I have seen it over and over in my life. College is not a technical school. So dont worry about it. Its one of the last chances you may have to study subjects of interest to you where you have the time and energy to do so freely. Once you graduate and start working, buy a house, get married etc, your lifestyle changes dramatically. So take full advantage of being in college and take courses that are interesting to you and dont worry so much about how you will apply that to a job. You never know what may happen or when you might use that information, let alone how it may help you grow as a person.</p>
<p>as far as i'm aware, at fordham, there's three types of meeting schedules where the class will meet either 1x (150mins), 2x(75mins), or 3x(50mins). from my experiencing having to take both liberal arts and business classes at fordham (something most fcrh/lc students dont HAVE to do) the course work is generally the same whether its 3 or 4 credit. and i think you're right about the business core classes. it probably applies to the core classes more than anything else. makes you wonder how some of these professors ended up getting jobs anyways. BUT on the bright side, the classes for your major (in CBA) tend to have pretty good professors that are very knowledgeable in the field you're studying in. I've heard that from most majors here.</p>
<p>i agree on the rest except the last part you mention. how you view school is entirely up to each individual. i see school as a means to an end. so to me it's just a degree that says my name and has the prestige of the school to get me a good job. i've been fed up with school since i've started working. and just want to graduate. maybe i'll go to grad school if it makes sense for my career but i don't see that in my radar anytime soon. </p>
<p>i'm going to digress a bit here (though it may help the OP a better to understand how the classes work here). if there were actual courses i were interested in that wouldn't affect my requirements to graduate, i probably would take them, but that's not possible at fordham, at least not in CBA since you have the liberal arts core, the business core, and then the major requirements to take (for CBA you MUST have 40 courses before you can graduate, no less). i wish it were a lot more flexible in terms of the classes you can take to graduate. i know it's a common complaint amongst students here. but i don't care so much that they make students take 2 theology, 2 history, 3 english, 2 math, etc. it's the fact that the school tells you which classes you HAVE to take in those subject areas. i've found for most of the classes where I got to choose the class I enjoyed much it more. For example, Ancient Roman History which i got to choose for my 2nd history is perhaps THE best liberal arts class I've taken here, and on the same spectrum the Western Enlightenment class that I was forced to take had to be the WORST. it would just be nice if they let us choose the classes in the subjects. maybe they'll change that sometime in the future.</p>
<p>The purpose of the core is to expand your sphere of knowledge and expose you to new ideas outside a narrow path or course of action, pardon the pun. If you chose CBA, that is your path and all decisions in life have consequences, both good and bad. Its not a value judgment, just a statement of fact. I suppose your comments bring us back full circle, where I was initially trying to help the OP in deciding, that while the admission standards are probably very close for both schools, the path you take once in that school may be very different, and it would be wise to consider that before you jump in. If you are more of an experimental type who wants to try new ideas and esoteric subjects or have more freedom in the area of study, then CBA is not for you. Nobody ever said that business classes were "intellectually challenging" in the philosophical/theological/idealism sense. By definitiion they are pragmatic courses designed for specific training that a business is looking for. I have never been a fan of business as an undergraduate degree, except maybe accounting because that is a path you take to prepare for the CPA exam and they often dont go onto MBA school. MBA school was designed to give people with more general studies, liberal arts, some pragmatic course work either before entering the workforce or often after a few years of entry level jobs, to help them get into "management". It has morphed into another expected degree to even get started. But I would never denigrate a liberal arts degree, for it teaches you how to think, not what to think.</p>
<p>Often kids in college have expectations set too high. I know people at Ivy League Schools who make the same complaints you do. But college is a lot things, and academic stimulus is but one factor.</p>
<p>again i'm not complaining about the subjects they make you take in the core. i'm talking about the classes they specifically make you take in the core, and the lack of options you have. For example you need:
2 Theology classes, 1 of which has to be Faith & Critical Reasoning
3 English classes, 2 of which have to be Composition/Rhetoric and Close Reading and Critical Writing
2 Philosophy classes which have to be Human Nature and Ethics
2 History classes, 1 of which has to be Western Enlightenment</p>
<p>That's 6 classes already you have to take no matter whether you're in CBA or FCRH/LC. I don't mind taking courses in these subject areas. (They can be real fun if you get to choose some of the classes.)</p>
<p>So essentially for the core that leaves you with being able to choose 3 classes only:
1 English class
1 Theology class
1 History class</p>
<p>And that's only in those areas. After that it varies a bit between the requirements in CBA and FCRH/LC. It would just be nice if they let the student choose all 9 classes within those subject areas.</p>
<p>So it doesn't matter what school you go to within Fordham University, they will force you to take these courses no matter what and most of them absolutely have no value at all, especially if you're good at analyzing things.</p>
<p>As for what school to apply to, I'd say try to get into whatever school has an easier admissions process or is less selective is the school to apply to because once you're in, it's pretty easy to transfer between schools especially the first or second year.</p>
<p>BP-TheGuy88</p>
<p>do you happen to know which school is less selective?</p>
<p>Sheena, I think you need to address that question directly to Fordham Admissions, but once again, in short, it is skewed by the numbers as Fordham College-Rose Hill is the largest of Fordham Colleges. Nor is it relevant, as I was trying to explain, because your chosen path should not be based on selectivity, but rather on your interests and prospective career path. And its not a good idea to attempt to "game the system" if that is what you are attempting to do, by applying to what is perceived to be a lesser selective school, or conversely apply to the more selective school (if they even exist, as I truly think they are on par) for prestige reasons. </p>
<p>Its like doing that same thing at NYU with Tisch and Stern. It isnt a good idea.</p>
<p>BP Guy: I appreciate your concern, and its very common at CBA to really complain the loudest about core classes as they are heavily weighted to liberal arts and finance kids dont typically like to write papers. But trust me, to succeed in business, particularly today, you need more than a skill at balancing budgets and crunching numbers. Writing skills often make a huge difference in who gets promoted. Thinking outside the box. </p>
<p>Further, the core requirements are well "advertised" at Fordham and if you object to them, then there were other schools who dont require a core. But a lot of books on the market which give in depth ratings of colleges often praise schools that stick to a classic core requirement. At Columbia, all freshmen have to read the Great Books and write big time papers on them (which to me would be highly stimulating). </p>
<p>Too much emphasis, in my opinion, is placed by students on the "major" and "concentration" in undergraduate school. Undergrad is about opening new doors and avenues, exploration and experimentation with ideas, a broad perspective. Graduate school is much more granular, if you will, about a particular subject matter or concentration. So sit back and enjoy the ride, for it will be over before you even imagine. And then, graduation day comes. I always marvel on graduation day and read articles in my local paper from kids at the state schools and private schools in my area and kids are always melancholic about leaving college.....they work so hard to get there and they are sick of it all.....and then....here it comes and everyone is saying....oh no...I didnt mean for it REALLY to end. Now I have to go to work, pay taxes and REALLY be an adult!! LOL.</p>
<p>My college years were wonderful and full of amazing experiences. I still remain close to some profs who are amazingly still hanging around (yes, they are old). </p>
<p>The working world is fraught with its own problems, stresses and frustrations....that far exceed the problems you are facing now. Trust me.</p>
<p>nocousin, like i said i have no problem with it, just wished they would change it. as i've found the more power you get to choose your classes, the more you usually end up liking the class and getting more out of it. i'm here and i'm almost done. actually i'm looking forward to graduating early, even if it's by one semester. i'd actually say that we don't have enough time to focus on our major and/or concentration, at least in CBA. I say because with the business core, we end up usually having to take all our major classes the last year of school. not sure if that's the case at FCRH/LC. my major in CBA isn't a traditional business major (i'm one of the few IT majors) so I'm not being thought what to think but rather how to approach/solve problems. between me and you, i can't stand CBA and its emphasis on accounting/finance for the same reasons you've stated, but that's what gets our school recognition so more power to them.</p>
<p>i think the difference between me and you is that you're looking at college as an ends to itself which is simply an education. i would not be here if college didn't improve my chances of getting a better job in the future as one can't get too far in this country without a degree in most cases.</p>
<p>BP...if you only knew how many "degrees" I have....lol. Being an adult and parent I can now reflect on that experience through a different lens. As a student, notably an undergrad, its normal to focus on "getting a job and being relevant to the world". But as you grow older you reflect on undergraduate school and see it differently. So will you in 20 years or more.</p>
<p>Lots of older adults go back to school to pick up a liberal arts degree or a degree in music performance or something like that....just for the fun of it and the enjoyment of learning. FCLS is such a place, I believe. </p>
<p>Just enjoy the ride, focus on problems you can help resolve, and the stuff you can't move on. Wait till you get in the corporate world and see the sorts of problems that they have. We are witnessing a lot of it.....the greed, hubris and incompetence that lead up to this market meltdown. And the POOR decisions some of our "leaders" in business and government are making as we speak. Look at SEC Chairman, Chris Cox....and his unbelievable performance the last two years....really rather shocking how bad it has been. And he could have stopped a lot of the pain by reinstituting the uptick rule for short sales and still yet today is doing nothing. Why? Either he is a glutton for punishment and enjoys inflicting pain or he is beyond incompetent. But I digress.</p>
<p>I would think that it would be more difficult to get into the Lincoln Center because of it's location and size. Approx 1700 students are admitted into the Lincoln Center while Rose Hill accepts something over 2000. Not a huge difference, but substantial enough to make me a little nervous.</p>