Just getting over it :-(

Graduate School Law School
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I posted a few weeks ago, immediately after I had taken the LSAT and was having a panic attack. I found out that my panic attack was indeed justified. I got my LSAT score back and I really did very bad (148!). This is really bizarre, but I guess not unheard of, from a Cornell student with a 3.8 GPA (history major, college of arts and sciences). </p>

<p>This has put me in a really bad position. I have notoriously been terrible at taking standardized tests, but I have rescheduled the LSAT for February 12th. I'm studying for it, but I just don't get the feeling I'm going to do much better on this one. </p>

<p>What it comes down to now is a realistic look at where I'm going to apply to law school. Although I am a Cornellian, I'm not aiming high, deciding to rather look at the location of the school in proximity to my family as a major factor. That's why I'm thinking of PSU Dickinson and Duquesne. I looked at the Boston locator thing and it said the 25% GPA for both is right around 152-154. Do you think the cornell degree (I haven't done my entire degree at cornell, just my sophomore through senior years) will help boost my chances even though my LSAT score sucks royally? These are the schools that it would mean the most for me to get into (even though I may be able to "do better", I have personal reasons for choosing them). I would just like to know how good of a shot I have of getting into these two schools in particular.</p>

<p>Any advice would be most appreciated. </p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p>A frustrated Cornell Girl</p>

2

<p>Blaker, first let me say that I sorry that your perception became your reality. All is not lost, however.</p>

<p>Duquesne: LSAT 75%=156, 25%=152
PSU: 75% =157, 25% = 152</p>

<p>In each case, you GPA is higher than the 75% mark. So, I would say you are in the ballpark. Good luck on your re-take.</p>

3

<p>I agree with cd, and all is not lost. Someone else posted this handy little chart that seems worth looking at:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator/#the25%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator/#the25&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

4

<p>There are 38 ABA-accredited schools (out of 177 total - that's more than 20% of them) where your LSAT score would put you no worse than the 25% percentile. (These include Syracuse University and Albany Law School in upstate New York; in Ohio, there's Dayton University, Capital University, and Ohio Northern.) </p>

<p>A high GPA from a great school really can compensate for lower LSAT score at many schools. Cast your net broadly, and you'll be sure to find yourself choosing among your acceptances.</p>

5

<p>Do not limit yourself simply because of your LSAT score. A 3.8 GPA from Cornell trumps your LSAT score. I would follow the advice of Greybeard.</p>

6

<p>If you aren't already aware of it, check here:</p>

<p><a href="http://officialguide.lsac.org/search/cgi-bin/results.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://officialguide.lsac.org/search/cgi-bin/results.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This is the official list of all ABA-approved law schools and has the current 25-75% ranges for LSAT's and gpa's for each such law school. I'm NOT suggesting that you limit yourself to those where your LSAT is within the 25-75 range, just saying that this chart is an excellent source of information.
(If for some reason the link doesn't work, go to <a href="http://www.jd2b.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.jd2b.com&lt;/a>. and use the link on the right for ABA-approved schools. ) </p>

<p>You might want to consider waiting until the fall of 2006 to begin law school. I say that because if you do get a much better score in February, many law schools will have already filled or almost filled their classes and you'd probably do a bit better if you wait. So, if you DO, you might want to consider another school which is not on that list. Elon University, which is a pretty decent school, is opening a law school in fall 2006. It's got a website and prospective students are invited to email. While this will be a brand-new law school, it should get ABA-approval quickly, given the strength of the university and the $ its willing to put into this. Just a thought...(I've no connection with Elon.)</p>

7

<p>If you did badly on your SATs (think about 1200 or below), LET THEM KNOW THAT. Seriously. Write a quick addendum and say that you are a bad test-taker; note that your SATs were low, but that it poorly predicted your college performance (include something like your Cornell class rank and the median 50% SAT scores of Cornellians). </p>

<p>Don't assume that admissions officers will properly account for things or be utterly blind to anything outside of the LSAT. Just tell them outright what you think is important for them to know about any problems in your application. Your LSAT score isn't a reflection on you; it's there. Deal with it proactively.</p>

<p>Aside from that, the best advice I can give you follows. Apply to a LOT of schools. With the very high GPA and very low LSAT, you're going to get very anomolous results. Schools will have their own ways of interpreting it. So, your application plan: apply to about 3-4 third tier schools in the region you want to practice. Apply to about ten second-tier schools in the geographic areas you want to practice or those that have high placements in those areas (for example, Tulane sends a lot of students to NYC). Get the USNews for grad schools and just blanket the schools ranked 40-70 with applications. Think American, Brooklyn, Tulane, Villanova, Cardozo, Hofstra, Temple, George Mason, Boston University (may be a bit of a reach), etc. (My law school knowledge is limited to the northeast.) </p>

<p>Finally, for your last few applications (I know, you're thinking I've really lost it), plug away at the top tier schools. Select VERY carefully based on LSAT/GPA grids - find ones that seem to favour GPA over LSAT. If you have a 1/3 to 1/6 chance of getting in, apply - the Cornell part of that 3.8 will come into play (the 5/6 of people with a 3.8/148 are probably from no-name schools). Georgetown is very GPA centered; I think that UChicago might be as well. </p>

<p>I had the reverse situation, and the method above (roughly 7 apps to second-tier schools and 7 to first-tier schools) got me a ton of waitlists, a bunch of rejections, and two acceptances - one to a top-tier school. It was mostly a matter of getting lucky enough to find a school that overlooked my engineering GPA and paid a lot of attention to my LSAT. Be really prepared to get a top-14 acceptance or waitlist and a third-tier rejection. </p>

<p>Consider taking time off to build a resume, which will help to round out your application. While it is true that GPA and LSAT are the most important things, I do believe that there is a third leg to the law school application: resume and school, with focus on major, recommendations, essay, etc. If you can get two solid legs (GPA and resume/recs/Cornell/essay), you have a more compelling case. Granted, it might not matter for very much, but some school out there will consider it.</p>

8

<p>I would suggest a tutor and a number of simulated exams twice a week for the next taking. I agree with everyone that all is not lost. But as I may have mentioned, as Ariesathena was going through application process, my friend's daughter was going through the same thing with low LSATs and a perfect 4.0 from an honors program at a very good state university. Phi Beta Kappa, double major, lots of extras. She has historically done poorly on standardized tests but was accepted to a top borarding school that took here despite scores in the lower 24% of the SSAT. She underperformed again on the SAT1, though did well on the SAT2s, and that probably cost her top choices in colleges. She was accepted with a full tuition scholarship at a selective Honors college program. She was waitlisted at all of her law schools except the one affiliated with her college which gave her a scholarship, which is unusual for law students. She did appeal the waitlists with a letter explaining her test score history and how it did not jive with her academic accomplishments. No dice. But she is doing very well in law school and I expect she will make Law Review. </p>

<p>Also I suspect Cornell's law school may give you a more holistic review and a letter from someone within the school will carry much more weight. I had heard that Cornell is a bit more generous this way about lower LSATs. In any case, you can talk to someone within the school that may give you a leg up.</p>

9

<p>Testmasters/Powerscore and previously-released LSATs. I have a feeling you didn't prep much for the LSAT.</p>

10

<p>Definitely apply to Cornell Law. Cornell will approach you differently because they will understand mnore than anyone how impressive your GPA really is. Cornell will also probably know that you would pick them if they accept you because you are already attached to Ithaca.</p>

11

<p>Thanks to everyone for the advice, I very much appreciate it! Ariesathena, you were right, my SAT score was very low (1190, 550 Math, 640 Verbal). Cornell took a chance on me and I was successful. I'm going to "cast my net widely" when applying to schools. Although I would prefer a law school in the area of Pennsylvania, I'm not going to limit myself. I will be in touch to let everyone know what schools accepted/rejected/waitlisted me.</p>

12

<p>Blaker, I do not want to sound condescending, but make sure to remember that you are a 3.8 student from one of the best, most respected and toughest-grading universities in the World. You do not need to be apologetic about your LSAT. Give the essays hell, get the best recommendations and I think you have a great shot. Best of luck and keep us posted.</p>

13

<p>Here, here!</p>

14

<p>how did u get into cornell with an 1190..i didnt have amazing scores but i was valedictorian of my high school class....what got you accepted..just wondering</p>

15

<p>Whatever else the adcon saw, obviously he/she saw real potential</p>

16

<p>I got in as a transfer student. I took some time off after my first semester of college and did a bit of travelling and working. I had a lot of circumstances in high school that had an effect on my grades...rather not get into it. After coming back from travelling, I had a whole new spin on things. Maturity does wonders, and the only way to become mature is face the real world with nobody to support you. It makes college look like a do-or-die thing. So, I went back to college, got 2 years worth of 4.0, and transferred into Cornell. After that, 1190 on the SAT and a crappy high school GPA/class rank don't mean much.</p>

17

<p>congrats on your hard work, and once again demonstrating that there is more than one way to arrive at a given destinantion.</p>

18

<p>Blaker: you are a winner. i am 100% sure you'll accomplish your goal. it might not be via the simplest approach, but even if it takes a little maneuvering, you've already shown you've got what it takes. i'm betting on you!
BTW, I tried to transfer into Cornell in '72 and was rejected. I thought it would be the end of my academic dreams, but life went on pretty well.</p>

19

<p>A good friend of mine went to American University for her first year of Law School and then transfered to Michigan Law school. I do not recommend that route, but it worked for her.</p>

20

<p>I am a corporate partner at a rather large firm in NYC. I happen to have two children who are Cornellians. One a graduate and the other a freshman. So I read your story with some degree of interest and decided to respond. </p>

<p>Just a little perspective on your choices. First, you can definately attend "a" law school-- and quite frankly a decent one at that. As long as you are attending an ABA accredited law school, you will be obtaining a fine educaton. What you do with that education is up to you. Of course, attending Harvard or Yale may initially open some doors for you if you are going the big firm route. But--and I say this from 25 years of experience--if you are a litigator it matters very little where you obtained your degree. Either you have the ability to sway a jury or you don't and all the fine educational training you will have obtained may be for naught. [Litigators are also well served by trying as many cases as possible early on--something you will not get at a big firm]. I know many, many trial lawyers who went to very small schools and have done quite well. I also know may big firm partners who went to very small schools who are doing exceptionally well. </p>

<p>One other thing to keep in mind. Your personality and diligence will also be very importance in your future success. The law can me very, very time consuming. You will put in many long hours. </p>

<p>And finally, remember that the size of your billing book matters a hellava lot more than where you went to school. Just a thought to keep in mind. Good luck and go Big Red.</p>