<p>Gah. Just got my score from the Feb. LSAT - 166. Realistically I don't know what I was expecting since I didn't come out of the test feeling super confident, but I'm still disappointed. </p>
<p>My GPA is 3.75 from N'western. I have solid extracurrics and my recs will be good. Schools I'm aiming for:</p>
<p>Cornell
UMich
N'western
G'town
Cal
Penn
[will apply to U of C and Harvard but am not entertaining any illusions about those]</p>
<p>So I guess I'll be re-taking in June. I just don't know how to study any more for this test. I used the Powerscore LGB which was helpful, and I took a stupid $600 Princeton Review online course -- biggest waste ever. The section I need to improve on is logic games. Is it worth spending another $1000 for a powerscore course? </p>
<p>Basically looking for advice and empathy would be good too :D</p>
<p>1.) What were your practice scores coming in at? Was 166 an aberration, either up or down?
2.) Law school is mostly a numbers game, but not entirely; other soft factors might kick in a little bit if they're strong enough.
3.) The good news is that logic games is the most modifiable section with study.</p>
<p>4.) Using lawschoolnumbers.com's graphs:
-Cornell: Not bad odds, actually; a little borderline but on the "green" side of the border
-Michigan: Pretty tough; two more points would have really helped
-Northwestern: Apparently very LSAT-heavy; once you cross 170, it almost doesn't matter what your GPA is. Famously favorable to those who have work experience.
-Georgetown: Not looking great; again two more points would make a big difference
-Berkeley: Long odds, but they are more random than most
-Penn: Pretty long shot; 170 to put you in the solid green</p>
<p>My highest practice score was 171, I also got 168 twice (on actual LSAT tests). I scored 164 on my diagnostic.</p>
<p>What kind of chance would I have at the schools right outside the T14? </p>
<p>I'm just not ready to give up on going to a T14. Do you think the Powerscore course is the best, considering I already used their LGB and am familiar with that method? I haven't looked at any of their reading comp or LR materials.</p>
<p>1.) The most accurate measure of your performance is an average. Were those four the only tests you took?</p>
<p>2.)
-UCLA: Not great. One more point would have mattered a lot.
-USC: Pretty solid
-UT-Austin: Data is scarce, but you look pretty solid
-Vanderbilt: Pretty good; green side of borderline</p>
<p>3.) Within the T14, you are above the 25th percentile at Duke, Berkeley (notorious for GPA emphasis), and Cornell (already discussed.) LSN indicates your odds at Duke are pretty rough; again, two more points would have helped a lot.</p>
<p>4.) Unfortunately, I have basically no experience with Powerscore or test prep in general. Hopefully somebody else will be able to discuss this.</p>
<p>lily- I know you are a bit disappointed, but a 166 is really a great score and you will get into numerous top 25 schools.
with that said- it's really your call.<br>
Will you be satisfied attending great schools like BU-Vanderbilt-GW?? Or is your heart set on a T-14 ??</p>
<p>From my read, you took the Princeton on-line course, used Powerscore bibles and took only 4 Practice tests??
If that was extent of your studying, then it may be worthwhile to get additional tutoring (private) or maybe take the Powerscore class.<br>
My d took the Kaplan course and the week-end Powerscore class. And I think she did alot of practice tests in addition to the 4 she did with Kaplan.<br>
I know Kaplan gets a bad rap- but she did go up around 15 points from her diagnostic to actual exam. She got a 167- but she really feels that score was pretty accurate for her. It was within the norm of her practice test scores. She was pretty happy, as alot of kids just freeze on the LSAT and their actual score is less than their practice score. So she decided to stick with her 167. If you really feel you can do better than the 166- it may be worth a shot to take it a 2nd time. </p>
<p>I know some say you should only take the LSAT once, but if your dream is a T-14- you really may need a bit higher score on your LSAT.
Good luck</p>
<p>A 3.75 from Northwestern University is impressive. What was/is your major? Do any Top 14 law schools consider strength of undergraduate program & strictness of grading? I am asking these questions because an above poster is using graphs to determine your chances at the Top 14. Do these graphs give the same weight to a 3.75 from a tier 4 public commuter school as they do from a top 15 nationally ranked university? My opinion is that you are certainly competitive for admission to Georgetown, Cornell & Michigan if the rest of your application is as impressive as your 3.75 from Northwestern. A 166 LSAT is excellent.</p>
<p>The idea is that a strong undergraduate program will kick in when you have a high LSAT and low GPA by the law school's standards. They figure that the LSAT shows you're smart and the tough school explains why a smart kid has a low GPA.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I've never seen it work in reverse.</p>
<p>a little off-topic, but icy asked, "Do these graphs give the same weight to a 3.75 from a tier 4 public commuter school as they do from a top 15 nationally ranked university?"</p>
<p>The answer is yes. But that's because in general, law schools give the same weight to those. There are several reasons for that: one is that grade inflation varies--it can be harder to get an A at some lower-ranked schools than at an Ivy! Another is that US News doesn't consider anything other than absolute GPA figures. Therefore, a law school would do better on rankings if it filled its class with students with 3.8s from "tier 4 public commuter school" instead of with students who got 3.7s at Ivies.</p>
<p>bluedevilmike: That doesn't answer the question regarding the graphs. Also we probably need to define what constitutes a low LSAT. Bottom 25%? Below the top 25%? A 3.75 GPA from Northwestern University will probably help, especially if coupled with strong recommendations and a tough major. Nor do I understand how my graph question was a little off topic. Law school admission is not solely about numbers as the above posts suggest. Numbers are important, but the admissions staffs read the entire application. To suggest otherwise, would mean that there is no need for an admissions committee at law schools as a simple computer program could sort out those with adequate numbers for admission from those who are to be denied due to a predetermined graphing chart.</p>
<p>As stacy mentioned, the graphs weight all schools the same -- largely because that's how law schools do it, too. I kind of skipped over that step to discuss the one exception I've ever seen.</p>
<p>Below 25%, probably. Maybe even below median. I dunno -- low enough that it's the part getting you in trouble.</p>
<p>icy- for those kids who really want to get into a T-14, an LSAT score of
166-168 is pretty frustrating. They are fantastic scores- but it's just on the "cusp" of an acceptance to a T-14 school.
My kid is at an Ivy with a 167 LSAT and over 3.7 GPA. Sure she has a shot at Cornell-Georgetown etc.- but it is far from a definite acceptance.
She's not applying this admission cyle, so the drama will continue over the next year or two. She will be working (somewhere) so that experience may help her a bit in regard to law school admission. </p>
<p>A top 25 school is probably a sure thing for LSAT scores of 166-168 as long as the gpa is over 3.6. And that is something to be proud of too!!</p>
<p>I'm double majoring in Poli Sci/History with a minor in Portuguese. I also speak 4 languages and have lived abroad in 2 different countries for 8 years of my life. I just don't know how much any of that will matter in the long run.</p>
<p>Double major and minor are unlikely to matter. Living abroad and speaking multiple languages could potentially matter a little if spun correctly in essays and such.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your responses :D I need to see if my family will pay for the powerscore course. I have 4 real LSATs that I ordered from LSAC which didn't arrive in time before my test (they really screwed up), so I can take those, and I can buy more books I suppose if I don't take the class. I would be satisfied with a score just 2 or 3 points higher, to be honest. </p>
<p>Mostly I really wanted to stay in Chicago but it's difficult because I know how notorious NU is for wanting work experience and U of C is so far out of my reach, even with a slightly higher score. My only other option would be Loyola and I really think I can do better.</p>
<p>Also, for schools like UCLA, Vanderbilt, GW and USC: How well does the degree travel? I don't think I want to end up in California or the South, and D.C. is iffy. Ideally I'd like to work in Chicago or else the North East.</p>
<p>lily- I'm gonna put you in the same category as my own kid.</p>
<p>You have a very decent shot at a T-14 acceptance, but it is not a sure thing.
I do believe a year or 2 of work experience may make you a stronger candidate and will increase your odds, but it won't guarantee you an acceptance to a t14 school. I agree with Mike- your background and living abroad may make you a more compelling candidate than other applicants in your LSAT range.
For my own kid- she really doesn't plan to take the LSAT again and is going to stick with her score.</p>
<p>Speak to you law school advisor, they may have some more insight than anyone on these boards.
You did great on your LSAT's- and you will get an acceptance from a wonderful law school --
Good luck.</p>
<p>lily- I just read your above posts. I think you should take some more practice tests. If your scores become significantly better, it may be worth taking the test again. If your diagnostic was 164 (?), I think you have the potential of scoring higher than the 166.
My kids diagnostic was in the 150's.</p>
<p>lilly: With your stats and background, you will be admitted to a Top 14 school or two. When I was in my twenties, I probably would have given an opinion similiar to the other posters, but I am older and wiser now. Don't waste your time retaking the LSAT--your stats are fine. The posts on this thread remind me of an often repeated lawyer story, the gist of which indicates a preference for an experienced lawyer over that of a freshly minted Harvard law grad if the client wants to win the case. Graphs, stats and absolutes are the luxury of youth. You are a very strong candidate--even for many, if not most, of the Top 14 schools. Another aspect of law school admissions is the desirability/maketability of law graduates produced. Fluently speaking four languages is an ability rarely seen, but highly desired, by large international law firms. Your abilities will make any law school look good to employers.</p>
<p>Hm. I fail to see the relevance of wanting a more experienced lawyer (which is obviously important).</p>
<p>In any case, the OP can feel free to check my sources. There's lawschoolnumbers.com. This is a massively compiled database where students punch in their information and reveal their decision. This database has a few problems, but none of them materially affect our purpose here. (The main problem is that a very high percentage of the students have very high numbers; this is not a problem, however, for using those numbers to predict admissions.) The OP is free to look at the graphs herself.</p>
<p>Second, she can punch in her numbers into the database at the LSAC data search. Official</a> Guide. Those will give her a probability; she is free to decide for herself whether she falls into the 30% of students with her numbers which will gain admission to Georgetown. (This engine is actually not very good, since it treats the variables as separate factors and therefore tends to give overoptimistic estimates.)</p>
<p>Finally, you can see the notes at US News. For all but one of the schools mentioned, the OP falls below the 25th percentile LSAT, with a GPA between 25 and 75. Those 25% of spots are commonly reserved for very special applicants, including (but not limited to) underrepresented minorities. She has to decide whether she thinks she is special enough to fall in that remaining 10% of spots -- sometimes 25-30 students per class.</p>
<p>Should she take your advice and apply as-is, I suppose we will see what the cycle holds. The proof will be, so to speak, in the pudding. You are certainly older and wiser; I am much closer to the admissions process; in any case she is free to browse through my sources and reach her own conclusions.</p>
<p>As-is, she will probably gain admission to Cornell, with a shot at Georgetown with good essays and possibly even Michigan if she can demonstrate a strong interest in the school. That is not a bad outcome in the least -- Cornell is an excellent law school. (I will go back over the graphs and make a more precise prediction later this evening.)</p>