<p>
[quote]
And I would not answer the question about who signed what document on a public forum.
[/quote]
ldmom, now why would that be if you had a power of attorney? You would have done nothing wrong. Now if you DIDN'T have one - well, that would be different. ;)</p>
<p>calmom, that's not what they are saying, is it? They are saying the kids didn't sign anything. They signed for the kid, either by POA or otherwise. And maybe online is different, but I don't believe a distinction was made as to the kid signing kid financials and parent signing parent financials online. I'm pretty sure both sigs came up at @ the same time. After it ALL was done. I know it didn't come up right after the kids section was finished. (I'll try to check, although right now I don't know how to do that .) </p>
<p>My problem with not disclosing is with the "not disclosing". And I would never ask my kid to sign a document I wouldn't show her. I have certainly said "Trust me" and sign it, but she's always had the opp to look at it.</p>
<p>"the reason that a parent is required to sign and why the parent gets a separate PIN is that the PARENT is signing off on their own financials -- not the kid. "</p>
<p>Ok, that explains that about the extra pin for the parent - unless I am misremembering we did everything under my son's pin and I didn't know why I would need one. Now it makes sense.</p>
<p>Online, if I remember correctly...it asks for the student signature up front, and for an indication as to how the parent will sign. After completion, the parent signature window popped up. I'm not sure if this is what anyone else encountered.</p>
<p>I just think most people would try to be honest as they can be ldmom. Is your experience different? And how do you swear to something before you wrote it if they asked for a sig at the front? And would that matter if the data was false? I really need to see how it is phrased and where it's placed. It's been a while.</p>
<p>It's not personal curmudgeon! But no one should be encouraged to potentially incriminate themselves....regardless if all intentions are good or not.</p>
<p>This issue bugs me. Maybe it shouldn't. Folks that I know are reasonable people of great virtue from 2000 posts on this board are seeing something 180 degrees different from how I see it , and I am trying to understand why that is . That's all. Somebody else may not have as clear a goal - but trust me , that's my only goal. And I'm getting further away from understanding, or at least it seems so.</p>
<p>It is at least possible that the fafsa form WAS set up to where I only swore and signed for parent data and the kid only swore and signed for their data, but I don't remember it that way. But like I said, my real problem not the form, its the off limits sign some want to throw up about their "private" financial life. I guess I always thought of it as our family's money , and the kid was a part of the "our" as long as she was under our roof. I thought that was the normal way. It appears I was wrong. Hey, its not the first time I've been in the minority. ;)</p>
<p>This from ldmom, is what I'm talking about. That just doesn't compute with me. Sorry. Nothing personal.
[quote]
She considers us well-off and herself personally poor, which is as it should be.
<p>actually I agree with that
( although I wouldn't describe myself as well off but I understand the sentiment)
the money we have is the "families money" that is the ones who file as having dependents :)
my daughter is an adult once 18- and while I will cover her expenses while she is in school the best I can, including health care and tuition, I also acknowedge that I am not obligated to do so.
My parents certainly didnt- there isn't anything that forces families other than their own values to support adult children.
OUr assets are not her assets. They may be one day- shared with her sister- but right now, they aren't.</p>
<p>Yes...you get it. When I was 18, the 'plates were broken'. I didn't have an 'expectation' of a college education or financial support because I was taught to be capable and independent. I worked and took out loans to put myself through college. My family was there as a safety net, but I never viewed their assistance as my right. What I learned was a valuable thing...and despite doing well, my husband and I want our kids to learn the same thing. We'll help them, but we want them to appreciate our help and not view that help as an entitlement.</p>
<p>Cur, while your more recent post addressed the content of another member's post, I am foolishly rushing in again to try to explain. I think it has to do with not wanting kids who come from financially comfortable families to feel "entitled" to "the good life." I have seen this in my own neighborhood -- kids who take for granted and expect such things as their own nice cars, exotic vacations, and other accoutrements of "the good life" that their parents worked for for decades. Their kids think they should have this lifestyle right off the bat. </p>
<p>Frankly, my kids know that my H and I define "the good life" differently anyhow. But they are surrounded by a culture that lives up to, and sometimes beyond, their means -- and often for the sake of things they do not need. My kids know they will have what they need and perhaps somewhat more. But they also know there is no way they can expect to have whatever tickles their fancy, even if we can pay for it. </p>
<p>And even a smart and savvy 18-year-old usually has a very unrealistic notion of what certain amounts of money can provide, and what "the number" for retirement funds should be. </p>
<p>That's also just one of the several reasons why my kid won't be going straight to grad school - she will go out into the real world and support herself for a few years first. We want her to make her own economic choices based on her own finances -- not assuming that there could always be a parental "bailout." She will also get a better foundation for making her choices for her future path. </p>
<p>Just our family's approach -- not forcing it on anyone, but don't see that "there's anything wrong with it." ;)</p>
<p>I sign for D on the FAFSA as a matter of convenience. She's familiar in rough form with all the data in there and the matter of what we feel/are willing to pay and how.</p>
<p>Drole excchange between me and TheMom the other night, talking about windows for retirement.</p>
<p>TD: well, it looks like she's going to have four years of law/Masters after this.</p>
<p>TM: She's on her own for that.</p>
<p>TD: I'm familiar with the theory, seeing how I annunciated it. <brooding silence=""></brooding></p>
<p>As with many things, I suspect the pieces will come together from different directions.</p>
<p>I don't think I've said that any way a family chooses to pay for college was right or wrong, I think what this thread was about was not disclosing family earnings and assets to children about to apply for financial aid to college.</p>
<p>jyber - I know exactly what you are saying. It's called the 'shortcut'. So many of d's friends have brand new cars, real Louis Vuitton bags and have passports full of country stamps. This is wonderful, as long as the kids get it that their parents sacrificed for years to provide these things...and there is no shortcut in the real world, (well unless you are Paris Hilton). It's not a stingy thing...it's a real world thing. Every parent wants their kid able to function well in the real world.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, what ldmom is saying is that she does not want to raise her kid to be spoiled or have a sense of entitlement. Kids don't understand money in the same way we adults do -- for one thing, they generally have no clue about what it takes just to make ends meet each month until they are living on their own. I mean, there's the matter of insurance: I pay out all kinds of money for health insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, car insurance, etc.-- none of which produces any return that my kids can see. And don't get me started on the subject of taxes....</p>
<p>So if a parent tells a kid that there is $200K in a retirement account and $30K available in liquid assets, to the kid that may seem like a great fortune. The parent, on the other hand, knows that $200K is not nearly enough to retire on, and that $30K wouldn't keep their family going for 6 months in the event of disability or lost employment. </p>
<p>Curmudgeon, with all due respect, you have raised your daughter on a ranch where she raises goats -- its hard for a kid to get spoiled in that environment. We urban folks and suburbanites have kids whose main recreational activities involve going to the mall. Every social activity involves spending money. </p>
<p>Some of us are middle class but have plenty available to finance our kids' after school activities and spending habits. I mean, if my daughter wants another $60 pair of shoes, I'm not going to starve if I give her the money. But I want my daughter thinking twice about those shoes, so I give her an allowance that does not include an allocation for new shoes every week, and I encourage her to work to earn extra if she wants it. </p>
<p>We've worked hard to get to the point where we don't have to fret any more if the gas bill is higher than expected and we now can fix our cars right away when they break down.... so at home our kids don't see or become aware of those expenses. I mean, its different when the car is sitting out in the driveway and everyone has to ride the bus for 3 weeks while mom is trying to get the cash together to replace the starter. </p>
<p>But many of us who remember harder times really don't want our children growing up with a cavalier attitude about money. Our current financial comfort level is not going to cushion our kids through life -- so we limit what we give to our kids and let the kids experience first hand the consequences of being short of cash.</p>
<p>Well, I guess the point could be why I quoted it but another could be why you posted it in the first place . But you are right, I shouldn't have commented and now I will refrain since we have moved into another area that we have no disagreement on.</p>
<p>I guess I was speaking to 'expectations' curm. That a child would 'expect' to have access to all of the parent's personal information is as unrealistic to me as the expectation of an uninterrupted stream of the 'good life'. Just our personal position, but my dh and I don't agree with creating unrealistic expectations in the minds of our children on any front. Lord knows how easily it is for them to come up with them on their own. :-)</p>