<p>CC experts, riddle me this: in the latest Kiplinger's Best Private College Values report (March 2014), I noticed that they listed Duke at No. 5 where it supposedly gave $54K of non-need based aid to 7% of incoming freshmen, which is $17K more than it gave to students with actual need! I checked the latest Common Data Set for Duke (2012-13), and sure enough on page 13 it showed that they awarded $54K of merit aid to 60 non-need students which works out to about 3% of the 1,710 freshmen class. Although it's not the 7% stated, it's still extremely generous and well above what other schools offer on the Kiplinger's list. How can this be? What am I missing?</p>
<p>I'm just starting the college search for DD and am looking for schools that offer generous merit aid, but Duke's data seems too good to be true. Or maybe that's why it's so competitive...TT</p>
<p>You are missing that the top 3% at Duke are very, very high stats students, probably with some hook as well. You will likely be disappointed if you think your DD will end up with one of those scholarships. Go ahead and apply, but make sure she has some affordable schools and/or schools where merit money is easier to get and less of a lottery ticket-type gamble.</p>
<p>It’s because the few Duke students who received a merit scholarship were getting essentially a full ride. Not all the financial aid students received a full ride.</p>
<p>No doubt that the kids that receive generous merit aid are high stat students with outstanding EC’s and hooks. Just thought it was a typo when I saw that Duke gave almost DOUBLE the amount of non-need based aid out of 100 schools on the Kiplinger’s list. Next one down on the list was JHU with $31K given to only 2%, followed by Vandy with 25K given to 18%; which are much better odds, but that still leaves 35K to be covered by the parents in Vandy’s case (according to Kiplinger’s data anyway). And $35K/yr is way more than the cost of most state flagship schools.</p>
<p>So even if junior was qualified/lucky enough to get into an elite private that offered generous merit aid, parents like myself who do not qualify for much/any need based aid will still have to come up with a sizable amount to cover the difference. Obviously, the idea that Privates can be just as affordable as a State U is a fallacy for most.</p>
<p>This is probably a realization that most parents come to at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. I guess there’s always ROTC…</p>
<p>Head on over to the Financial Aid Forum and look at the pinned threads at the top. A couple are dedicated to assured merit aid and if your child is a good performer can get up to full tuition plus at some large public Us.</p>
<p>You also need to distinguish between schools that spread around modest amounts of merit aid to a fair number of students, and schools that have a few high-value merit scholarships. I’m pretty sure Duke is the latter.</p>
<p>Thanks. I have been going through the many threads on the Financial Aid Forum, and let me first express my deepest gratitude to you and all the other senior members that have contributed to these threads over time. As a new member to CC, I hope to keep the conversation going and be able to share the occasional “aha” moment with others. </p>
<p>Pretty interesting. I wasn’t aware of this. I wonder if its a program that is actually “managed” and done ahead of time, or whether its the result of an adhoc “bidding war” against HYP etc. Or possibly a little of both. </p>
<p>Tucker I went through the merit threads and got son to apply to two of them, both came through with nice offers, so that advice is worthwhile. </p>
<p>For the other privates he applied to I noticed a common theme… all of them offered some merit aid which moved their cost close to that of the in state flagship. They seem to know where our tipping point was. I also found that the privates were more negotiable than public schools. GL. </p>
<p>Good points Mitch. I’m in the process of helping my DD compile her list and expand her horizons to include lesser known privates and some OOS publics that may be more generous with merit aid. Not surprised to hear that schools know where one’s tipping point is since they have our personal financial information readily available. The only thing we have are the Common Data Sets. Not really a fair fight, but that’s where the vast knowledge of the CC community helps!</p>
<p>Dadx, I thought the same regarding Duke (hence my post). I guess one could check the previous Common Data Sets to determine when they started doing this. As you suggest, it could very well be that they are trying to entice extremely qualified candidates with a full ride from their competition. College is big business after all, and it obvious that rankings matter to them.</p>
<p>Robertson Leadership Scholars at Duke receive full tuition, room and board. It is HIGHLY competitve and the application is very extensive. The requirements alone for the recommendation letters put us off so go2girl did not apply.Vanderbilt, Washington University in St. Louis, Emory, University of Notre Dame, Claremont-McKenna all have similar scholarships that range from 50% tuition on up. My daughter received the Vandy, Notre-Dame and CMC scholarships for leadership and also had Ivy admittance. Ivy’s will not negotiate regarding merit aid (we tried) – will only negotiation need-based aid.</p>
<p>I think they are trying to pull top students with this money. The school knows which sub groups of students are in the highest demand from other schools and consequently, the most difficult to get to your campus. Some of those subgroups are not need based groups. An example could be female engineering students with 2300+ SAT scores and perfect grades or winners of national level science contests. If last year’s yield among applicants in this group was very low (implying that candidates had many other offers from ivies, MIT, Cal Tech Berkeley etc.), admissions may decide that either they need to accept weaker candidates in this group or that they may offer top candidates a better deal via scholarship and see if they can improve their yield that way.</p>
<p>UCBalumnus: This must be similar too the Regents and Chancellor’s scholarships to Cal Berkeley. They are not need based and offered to only a small number of students. In Cal’s case recipients receive $100,000 over 4 years. Candidates also have to visit the school to be interviewed and get a better feel for it. It is very impressive. </p>
<p>Many schools also offer important perks that can be just as valuable, such as the ability to register before the general student body or guaranteed on-campus housing for all 4 years.</p>
<p>I think the OP is trying to point out that the distribution of financial awards at Duke is problematic and runs counter to the claims by the school that they are trying to attract and support outstanding students without the financial means to attend, as well as those that have the financial resources to attend. Incidentally, schools like MIT give zero financial aid or funding to those that don’t need it. In other words, they have zero merit awards. Same for the Ivy’s. They don’t seem to need it. I think they are pretty certain that the financial incentives are unlikely to entice someone who wants to be at MIT to go to Duke, for example. And even if it does, MIT (and the others) get so many phenomenal students that it won’t lower their talent pool.</p>
<p>Go2mon, Vandy, Wash U and ND are schools that DD is interested in. Can you provide more details? Such as stats, EC’s and others that your daughter had on her resume plus any pointers for those specific programs? Thanks in advance and congrats on your daughter’s accomplishments!</p>
<p>@lostaccount:
“…the distribution of financial awards at Duke is problematic and runs counter to the claims by the school that they are trying to attract and support outstanding students without the financial means to attend, as well as those that have the financial resources to attend.”</p>
<p>I am not sure that I understand this point. Most of the money allocated is used to attract exactly the type of student you are referencing. Why would it be inappropriate for the school to try to attempt to attract certain groups of outstanding students to their school with scholarships? </p>
<p>TuckerTroy - my D had the stats you would expect-over 4.0, 2300SAT–many of her ECs happened outside of school. No sports or music. She was involved. In mock trial and City Gov all 4 years. She showed commitment, compassion and the potential to CONTRIBUTE at all the school she applied to. I believe that’s what set her apart. It’s not about what you get but what you will give.</p>
<p>Also, go to the Notre Dame, Duke and Vandy websites and read the bios of the scholars. Assume they all have the stats but look at how they caught the attention of ad coma. Best of luck!</p>
<p>Mock trial? City Gov? Other than obvious, not familiar with these programs. Perhaps these programs are community specific? DD is very involved in outside organizations through NCL and our church. Lots of volunteer hours and fund raising. As suggested, I’ll check out the bios. Thanks again!</p>
<p>Read the fine print at the bottom of the Kiplinger page. The 7% represents the percentage of all undergraduates without need who received non-need-based aid. </p>
<p>According to the CDS, 3037 of 6719 undergrads were determined to have need. That leaves 3682 undergrads with no need. 246 undergraduate merit recipients represent ~7% of that 3682. Of the 1710 entering freshmen, 799 were determined to have need. That leaves 911 freshmen with no need. 60 freshmen merit recipients represent ~7% of that 911.</p>