Knox VS Wheaton (MA)

Parents Forum
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<p>After years on CC, I have finally narrowed down my final choices to Knox College in Galesburg, IL VS Wheaton College in Norton, Mass. I applied to 16 colleges and ended up visiting 17 states for spring break (3,527 miles) and 6 colleges (Knox, Earlham, Ohio Wesleyan, Juniata, Clark, and Wheaton). Clark was one of my top choices for such a long time, but I didn't really get that cozy feeling that I got elsewhere. It was probably that urban feel. If anyone else was wondering I ended up getting accepted to 13 colleges, wait-listed by 2 (Hobart & Holy Cross), and rejected by GCSU. Financial aid really was a key factor and axed 7 schools because they costed too much. I got approx. $530,000 in scholarships for 4 years (with all the scholarships from the 13 schools). If any new posters read this, I am from Metro Atlanta, but I grew up in South Florida and my parents are from New York. I plan to double major in Anthropology and Theatre with a minor in Journalism. I hope to become a talent agent or a print journalist.</p>

<p>I never fell in love with any college. If money wasn't a factor, I would pick Wheaton. I feel like Mass is more liberal and I liked how Providence was only 20 minutes away and Boston was only 40 minutes away. But I didn't love the school and didn't get a great feel for the student body. I really LOVED the campus and I like the fact that it's suburban, but so close to the city. It def had the most good looking student body. There is no greek life which I love and no football team. I did an appeal for more scholarships and I got $3,500 more a year. I would get a 3k stipend to be used in out-of-class learning during the summer between sophomore and junior years. This can be used for internships, research projects, etc. I would have to keep a 3.0 to keep this scholarship, while to my knowledge Knox has no requirements for my scholarship which is a combination of academic, theatre, and writing. I am a community scholar at Wheaton. I really didn't get a good feel for the student body though. It aggravated me that in a lecture type economics class, not one person asked questions or discussed for at least an hour. Instead, they were on facebook and were texting (to be fair Knox students were too). Wheaton also had the biggest dorms out of any college. I could also take Italian at Wheaton (while I'd have to take French (again) at Knox). I can also take classes at Brown or Providence College if I go to Wheaton. It didn't seem too diverse though, but I loved that New England charm it had. New England really has that cocky-ness to it though, while the midwest is more friendly. However, it would be a great place internship and job wise. I also have family (not that close but) 3 and half hours away, I have no family in the midwest. </p>

<p>Knox was the first college I visited, so essentially I was a little too hypocritical. I had more cons then pros at first, but something in me kept on going back to it. I love their approach to the curriculum. It's on a quarter system essentially and you only take 3 classes per term. You also get a really long winter break (6 weeks) and you don't start until September. It is about 30% greek and does indeed have a football team. I hate football, my high school (on the other hand), is all about it. Knox has a Repertory Theatre which is an entire term researching, designing, constructing, rehearsing, and performing two full-length plays. I would only take drama. They offer this every two years. Knox is very rural though. I would not have a car, so that's something to consider. Peoria and the Quad Cities aren't that far and actually pretty nice, but they're no Boston or Providence for sure. Knox felt very clique. When I was in the cafeteria, all the jocks sat together, all the nerds sat together, and all the African American students sat together. It felt kind of like high school. But a girl at Wheaton told me it is kind of clique as well, which is mostly because it's a small school. My high school is twice the size, lol. I really didn't like the campus at Knox. Although it was historic (Lincoln-Douglas debate was there and I sat in a seat where Lincoln/Obama/Clinton sat), it was very old and dusty. I have a severe allergy to dust. I couldn't even breathe in their library. Both schools have a lot of traditions and offer non proctoring tests/finals. The dorm at Knox was the smallest. The student body felt more intellectual though. I loved my tour guide. I was surprised that out of the 5 students I met, 2 were Jewish. Galesburg is conservative, but Knox itself is liberal. I did see quite a lot of students smoke, but saw that everywhere. When we went to Davenport, Iowa, we met some of the nicest people ever! It is 3 hours from Chicago and is harder to get to. I could fly into Peoria or Moline, but costs more money. Sports may have been bigger there, not sure. I saw quite a bit of jocks at both campuses. I am somewhat artsy (drama), but I'm pretty liberal and mainstream at the same time. Vassar would have been a great fit if I could have got in there. Academically, both schools are similar but Wheaton would have some higher stats in general. I think Knox had more diversity though. The thing is that I would need a car just to get to Peoria or the Quad Cities, while Wheaton has the train which will take me to Providence or Rhode Island. I would have to take a commuter train and bus to get to Norton though. </p>

<p>Now here comes the money part. My family would have to pay $8,029 at Knox VS $11,666 at Wheaton. Yes, $3,637 more may not be that much for one year, but overall my parents would save $14,548 if I went to Knox. My parents have three other children. I have an older brother at a tech school, and a younger brother who is a freshman in high school. I also have a two year old sister who goes to a Montessori school part time. I would be taking around 30k in loans at both schools. I did not include work study in this number, it only included direct costs (loans, grants, and scholarships). I would get an additional $1,500 in work study at Wheaton, but $2,475 at Knox. </p>

<p>My parents could afford Wheaton, but Knox would be cheaper. I liked Wheaton better, but I keep on going back and forth. If they costed the same, I would go to Wheaton but I didn't LOVE Wheaton. I really want to make a decision this week. My dad liked Wheaton much better, but money wise he is for Knox. My mom likes Knox better all around. If you ask my friends though, they would say I would fit in better in the northeast. I have this NY persona to myself. I am always on the go, etc. The other problem is that I was offered pell/SEOG federal grants at all the colleges, but Knox. Knox said they found an error with my dads income reported on the FASFA (something to do with s corp taxes) with my 1040, which made me not eligible. I looked at the numbers and they're the same on both forms, so I really don't understand. But I sent the 1040 to Juniata and Wheaton and they still gave me the pell grants. The lady said I should tell the other schools (but why would I?). If they took the pell grant away at Wheaton (which they could in the summer) then we couldn't afford it. But I'm thinking this would have been a big issue that the schools would have noticed quickly (we did verification even Juniata and Knox), but they said the schools wouldn't have noticed it with verification. So, that worries me if I go to Wheaton. Also, Wheaton has a June orientation which would cost a lot of money for two days. My grandparents (who don't have much money) already bought me a plane ticket in June, so that's another problem. My grandpa thinks I should go to Knox, since it would save my parents quite a bit of money. I am worried that I will get bored at Knox, but will also have to transfer if I got below a 3.0 at Wheaton. I've never had below a 3.1 in high school, but just having the pressure bothers me. Financial aid is something which can change greatly because my dad is self employed, and my mom has stayed at home since my little sister was born. So, if she ever goes back to work or if my dad ever makes a lot more this year, my financial aid will be a lot less.</p>

<p>There was really never a clear winner. I don't think waiting until May 1st will do any good. My "gut" doesn't tell me anything. I have mixed feelings and I feel the same I did a week ago. Before talking with my parents today, I was leaning more towards Wheaton, but the money factor is big. </p>

<p>What do you guys think? Which school has a better reputation and is more well known? I have always thought Wheaton was more well known in general. Thanks!</p>

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<p>Knox is a very friendly place to spend four years. If you are interested in graduate school, you can go to the best from Knox. But it is a regional LAC in the sense that outside of the grad schools view folks have heard of it outside of the midwest unless they know as a site for the Lincoln Douglas debates. For a D3 school, football has too much power in relation to the other sports. Common road trips are to Western Illinois University in Macomb. Some go to Peoria. The theatre department has been strong for many years and was at the forefront of pushing the limits of college theatre back in the day. </p>

<p>But if you feel the need to be close to big cities, Galesburg will make you feel isolated.</p>

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<p>You’ve been doing a lot of thinking about your choices and it sounds like you’ve got parents and grandparents weighing in too. That’s great that you have so much data for making your decision and that you have been pondering this so carefully. As for reputation, ranking systems are somewhat controversial but US News ranks Knox and Wheaton fairly closely: Wheaton is #62 on the list of national liberal arts colleges and Knox is #71. The acceptance rate at Wheaton is slightly lower than at Knox (62% vs. 75%). However, East vs. Midwest population concentrations may account for that. I would say the colleges are a toss-up in terms of reputation. The rural vs. urban difference may be something to consider; however, you are not going to college for the rest of your life–just four years. Moreover, students are often so busy being involved on campus that they don’t go off campus even though a city is right on their doorstep. I think that a key factor to consider is which college will get you the best prepared for what you want to do AFTER college. You say that you plan to double major in Anthropology and Theatre with a minor in Journalism and that you hope to become a talent agent or a print journalist. The most important questions to ask are about internship placements and connections in each college’s Theatre and Journalism programs. Most students get their first jobs through internships. In fact, internships the summer of the sophomore and/or Junior year are becoming key to post-graduate employment. You need to research this by looking at dept. websites, e-mailing the department head, or calling the head of Theatre and Journalism (Journalism may be a subset of another major). Check out the career services website for each college and call/email its director also. For each major, ask what opportunities students have for internships, job shadowing, etc. Ask what graduates have done in the last five years. Do not assume that because Wheaton is near a large city its graduates will have the best placement record into internships and first jobs. I teach at a Midwestern university in a rural area and when I go to Chicago and hang out with persons in Chicago theatre companies I have discovered that the theatre department at my university is well known and places students in the Chicago theatre scene. You need to find out what Knox’s connections are. Journalism majors typically start working on campus for campus media. Sometimes students minor in Journalism but through their campus media experience they get print or electronic media internships in major markets. For example, for years, DePauw in Indiana was the farm club for Wall Street Journal future reporters. Find out what the campus opportunities are to develop journalism experience and where the editors and writers for campus media at each school are getting internships. Research shows that students who have internships are offered, on average, $10,000 more per year in their starting salaries and get a first job six months sooner than others. Your investment in a college education can pay off the most when it leads to internship experiences that translate into eventual job offers. By contacting the two colleges with these questions, you will learn more also about how each treats students. Do both do a good job of answering your questions? Do they take time with you? You want to go to a college where people know that helping students get internships is a responsibility and where they are set up to help make that happen. I hope someone else will answer your concerns about the financial aid–that sounds complicated with the possible FAFSA glitch but I am not good at thinking about such things. Also, per keeping a minimal gpa, I think both schools are set up to offer support to students to insure academic success. Whichever school you choose, you will need to be proactive if your first graded work comes in with lower grades than you want. You will need to visit your professors during office hours, seek out support from a writing center or other academic support office, etc. You may wish to look on the website of each college to see what they offer in that regard. You will feel less concerned if you know that there is a support system in place to help students succeed. Typically, help centers are called “writing centers” or “student academic support offices.” Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone! I’m really torn. For the last couple days, I have been thinking Wheaton and now I’m thinking more Knox because it is cheaper. My nana thinks it is a sign from God that I should go there. I’m really concerned what Compdad said about football at Knox because football has too much power in my school. I’ve had swim meets and drama performances canceled because of football games. </p>

<p>I’m really more undecided when it comes to academics. I’ve been acting since I was six and it has always been my passion. However, I feel like if it’s ever meant to be, it will happen and if not, it wasn’t meant to be. Anthropology seems really interesting and I sat in an anthropology class at Knox and I really liked it. I have thought about moving to LA after college to peruse my acting or talent management career. A lot of my teachers have heard of Wheaton, but not one has heard of Knox. I really wanted to make this decision more about fit more then anything. I have also considered law school, but with my terrible standardized testing skills, it doesn’t look too promising. </p>

<p>My only problem with keeping a 3.0 are all the horror stories I hear about freshman in college. However, my academic interests aren’t math or science based, so I think I should be fine. I just don’t like having a minimum requirement because it just adds more stress. I honestly think I’ll do fine in college if not better. I have taken five AP classes and over ten honor classes in high school.</p>

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<p>I would seriously take into consideration the 3.0 GPA requirement. What are you going to do if you drop below a 3.0 (which isn’t hard to do in college) and your aid is yanked? Are you going to transfer or take out additional loans to remain at the school? I think these are the questions to contemplate rather than the presence of football at a college or the coziness feel of a college campus.</p>

<p>Based on your post, it sounds as though Knox may be the better option. You won’t have the 3.0 GPA requirement on your back regarding monetary aid. It’s up to you and your parents now to figure out what will work best for your family. Consider the important things like travel to and from college, bottom line costs, and majors (students tend to change their majors at least once). Also consider the class registration process and the number of sections available for various courses.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean to overplay my football comment. Academics come first at Knox. What I said about football is in relation to other sports not academics. Libartsmom’s comments are spot on as far as connections go. If you do not intend to go to grad school, the internships you get while in college will havea great deal to do with whether you wait tables in LA waiting for your break. I have always had a sense that Knox’s connections are more midwest. But no matter where you go, you are going to have to work hard to reach your goals. A college alone won’t get you there.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the feedback! I have considered graduate school and the peace corps, and I know both are big at Knox. I really don’t plan on staying in one geographic place my whole life.</p>

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<p>I don’t know Knox at all. </p>

<p>I have to say that I really really like Wheaton. I used to work nearby, and my son went to accepted students day at Wheaton in 2010. The first year Italian teacher – we sat in on her class – is awesome. I have NO Italian (but Spanish and Latin and Russian) and I was able to participate by the end of the class. </p>

<p>There’s lots and lots to like about Wheaton. I got the feeling of a place that an ambitious student could really get a lot out of – good teacher, nurturing, lots of opportunities.</p>

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<p>early college I am glad you got to visit your colleges finally!</p>

<p>Please tell me if I got this right, you can not afford to go to Wheaton if they find the financial error that Knox mentioned or if your need based aid changes next year with your father’s varying income? Also would the 3k summer stipend keep you from working next summer? Also is the Wheaton scholarship gone immediately if you go below 3.0 GPA or do you have a semester to bring it up? Will you have the 30K debt even with your parents paying roughly 10,000 a year? Remember your cost will probably increase some each year. It does occur to me that more people may have heard of Wheaton because there are 2 Wheatons (the other one in Illinois) :).</p>

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<p>If Wheaton takes away my Pell Grant/SEOG Grant and doesn’t give me more institutional grant or more loans then we cannot afford it. Wheaton would cost $2,400 more if they take away the federal grants and $5,600 more then Knox a year. Another CC member told me that Knox could have revised the figures and they very well may have added back some deduction from my dad’s schedule C. So, I just do not know. I don’t know if maybe this is just a Knox problem, but the Knox FA told me it’s better I notify the other schools now so they can adjust my package then in the summer when I’ve already put in a deposit. They said that my dad put the wrong line on the 1040 for our income on the FASFA, but I looked and it was right. I don’t get what they’re talking about, something to do with my dad being an s corp. I would have thought it would have been an easy error to find (and our accountant put in the final numbers), so I’m really lost. I’ll have my dad call Knox Monday for clarity. </p>

<p>The 3k stipend is only for the summer before my junior year. I literally just found out about my new scholarship at Wheaton late Friday, so never had time to ask them about what would happen if my GPA went below a 3.0. I will have the 30k in debt for 4 years at both schools even after my parents pay roughly 10k a year. If I would have went to Clark, I would have only been in 22k in debt for 4 years. I would have had to pay 10k, but my parents would still be paying 8k more overall. </p>

<p>When I tell people about Wheaton, I make sure to tell them it’s the one in MA (and some of my teachers have heard of it). Knox on the other hand…haha…</p>

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<p>Okay, so the maximum cutoff threshold for the 2011-2012 school year for a Pell Grant is now set at an EFC of 5,273. When I submitted my FASFA, it said my EFC was 3/4k. When my dad did the estimate it stated that our EFC was 8k, but my dad ended up making 18k less then what he originally thought. So, our EFC changed a lot as well.</p>

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<p>NYSmile - that is the Wheaton near Chicago</p>

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<p>^Whoops. Thanks. I deleted it. :)</p>

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<p>Anne Curry was actually Wheaton’s commencement speaker in 2010 and she said the other Wheaton’s alumni in her speech, lol! It made nationwide news of course.</p>

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<p>I know several students who went to Knox, so my DS asked them about football and fraternities. He was told that football is not a big dal, and even the fraternities are very mild compared to the Dartmouth standard. Most kids don’t even care about the Greek life, and that the main reason to be part of it is for the parties, which you can choose to attend if not a member. </p>

<p>With your finances so unsure from yer to year, I vote for Knox. It has an amazing community, and coming from the South to the Midwest, it will be less of a culture shock (friendly and mellow) than the Northeast. </p>

<p>I think the time for well-known is long past. Besides, on CC there is a VERY strong East Coast bias, so you will have plenty of people saying they never heard of Knox. Not to say that Wheaton isn’t also a great school but you need to focus on what is the best for you, not the most prestigious of the two. Especially when when one is affordable and which one is not really should make up your mind. I know that you have been on CC for a few years, so you probably have read the horror stories of kids that had to move back home and attend college because finances didn’t work after freshman year. </p>

<p>Good luck, BTW. I have followed your colege search for a while.</p>

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<p>EC - I married a Knox football player who graduated in 1982. He is the nicest guy in the world. Thirty years later, he is still friends with his college buddies, some football players, some not football players. They still get together about 2-3 times a year. It really is a nurturing place.</p>

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<p>Thanks MizzBee! I’ve seen your posts as well. Has your DS chosen yet? I really liked Lawrence, but there was no way it could be affordable (almost 20k per year). </p>

<p>I agree with you that the Midwest will be less of a culture shock, but I am kind of looking for something completely opposite from Georgia because I hate it here. My whole family is from New York and I lived in South Florida for ten years (all NYers), so I have this NY persona to me. But New England is also known for being a little snobby and rude (no offense to anyone out there), while the Midwest is known for being really friendly. I really want to go somewhere ten times more liberal though because I am sick of being the only democrat. Galesburg itself is conservative, but Knox isn’t at all. My really only main concern at Knox at this point is the location and the campus wasn’t the best, but it seems really intellectual. I was talking to someone online and when I mentioned Wheaton, they happened to live around there, and it said a lot of rich kids from CT went there. I think more of a middle class student body goes to Knox, which I am use to.</p>

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<p>Yes, early_college, my DS has chosen Wabash, where he will be one of the few liberal atheists, which is exactly what he seems to want. He seems to want to fight over the next four years. He refused to even look at East Coast colleges, so many of your choices were never on the table. Knox had too many “hippies” for him, but he really like the theater department. </p>

<p>I can’t talk to the snobbery of the East Coast, because my DS decided not to apply to any East Coast schools due to a combination of hatred for the Bostonian accent (Car Talk scarred him) and his desire to keep away from prep school kids. If you don’t mind the “bubble” Knox is a great option.</p>

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<p>I actually passed Wabash on my way to Knox. We were actually driving for quite a bit in the middle of no where and then all of a sudden we passed a college! From Indianapolis to Peoria, it was nothing but cornfields! </p>

<p>I’ve had enough of being one of few liberals, so I just want a change if you know what I mean. I stopped by at Earlham (which was actually 1k cheaper then Knox per year, cheapest school) and boy if your son thought Knox was “hippie”, I cannot imagine what he would think of Earlham. I hated it and didn’t even stay for the tour the next day. It was probably too liberal for me haha. Way too hippie for my standards, Knox really felt like it had a mix of students. </p>

<p>I actually was looking at Southern California schools for a while, but I felt like it was too materialistic. </p>

<p>I think I’ll get the “bubble” anywhere I go honestly. It was so sad, but out of the 6 colleges we saw, we didn’t even see one college’s stage!</p>

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<p>He has a good friend at Earlham, so he knew it wasn’t what he wanted. His friend is actually from Berkeley, so DS seemed to be rebelling from anything related to Berkeley. So Beloit, Knox, Earlham were too hippy. I think Knox was fine-just diverse and friendly.</p>