Knox VS Wheaton (MA)

Parents Forum
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<p>I think familyof3boys hit it right on the dot. I agree 110%. I think if Knox was in the Northeast, I would choose it in an instinct. I guess I like Knox as a school more, but the location and rural-ness is holding me back. When I was first looking at the whole picture, Wheaton was on top. But I think there was something deep down saying Knox was the one. I think it’s just so hard to give up Wheaton’s location honestly. I have wanted to go up north for five years now, so I guess that’s the hardest thing because I really think I belong up north. </p>

<p>People on CC were saying that the Midwest would be less of a culture shock, which is very true. But I think I would feel more comfortable up north and Knox would actually be the school that I would be taking a risk at. I really don’t want to pick a school just because it’s up north. And I think the main reasons for picking Wheaton would be because of the location, the beautiful campus, and the fact that there is no greek life or football team. I’d pick Knox because it’s much cheaper overall, but I really do love how their academic calendar is set up. I also think Knox is more intellectual. But Galesburg is a conservative town. </p>

<p>I also agree with SteveMA as well.</p>

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<p>I don’t want to muddy the waters. Knox sounds like a great resolution, and I agree. Just be happy and buy the T-shirt.</p>

<p>For others: Wheaton is a lovely school designed by the same architect who designed Central Park. Not all easterners are snobby. My kids went to “elite” eastern schools and met some very nice kids.</p>

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<p>Pick Knox. You have 3 other siblings , 2 of whom have yet to face the issue of higher education, and its only reasonable/fair/approriate/unselfish to think about the whole family, not just yourself. If the choice is this difficult, then there simply isnt that much of a difference between the schools to justify putting strains on the family income/savings. That is not fair to any of them (parents or sibs). You won’t really spend much time in the town, so that should be a minimal variable. Knox just had 3 Fulbright scholarship winners for crying out loud. This is a great accomplishment. </p>

<p>And when you get back from visiting your grandparents, as you said upthread, get a job this summer and make some spending money.</p>

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<p>Go to Knox and then look for jobs in the NE after you graduate!</p>

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<p>Ugh, I just got off the phone with my dad, and he thinks Wheaton is a no brainier. I feel like he likes it more because it is in the northeast and it’s closer to the city. He isn’t a big fan of the Midwest in general. My mom, on the other hand, thinks I should go to Knox.</p>

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<p>What is wrong with the Midwest??</p>

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<p>EC-
You have always said your mother is the more fiscally responsible one in the family. Listen to her. She is right. How will you feel if in a year or 2 they tell you they can’t afford to continue to send you?</p>

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<p>Listen to your mother.</p>

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<p>EC, I must say that since each school has positives and you can make either school work for yourself, you should really consider difference in cost to your family. I also think that you should listen to your nana, and your mother. I would get that Knox t-shirt :D</p>

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<p>How much cheaper is Clark for you to attend?</p>

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<p>I think you should go to Knox. You describe yourself as liberal but from reading your posts over the last few years you are liberal for your area of Georgia but maybe not so liberal for the Northeast or a school like Earlham.
My H and D spent two days at Earlham. They did an indepth visit. Meetings and dinner with admissions and with professors and current students. They also were taken on a tour of Richmond by the school. There are some nice and pretty areas of Richmond.My D also attended a class. She liked it a lot.Both my H and D loved the school. My H felt it was a school where they don’t let you fall through the cracks. Also they give you 2 yrs to have the GPA at a 3.0 for the merit aid. The student body is liberal but also extremely diverse. My D looked at schools in the East, West and midwest. Earlham was the most diverse by far. From reading about your trip to France I doubt you would be happy at Earlham.
From your posts I think you are asking for advice but want to do what you want. Listen to your Mom. Also go into college with an open mind. People may look different or engage in activities that you don’t but that doesn’t mean you can’t find some common ground.</p>

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<p>EC, you are clearly very well organized and highly ambitious and so I think you will do well wherever you go.</p>

<p>But I think you need to do two things before you make a decision-
1- make a spreadsheet which shows actual net cost to you personally, and to your family at every school you were accepted to. Include the cost of getting to and from school twice a year (in the Fall and then Xmas). You can look on Expedia just to get an approximate cost of the airfare. If you know you need ground transportation once you arrive at an airport, do a quick google to get an estimate.
2- Do the same exercise but assuming that the error on the FAFSA will be detected by every school you’ve been accepted to, i.e. with the lower financial aid estimate.</p>

<p>Then have a good think about this.</p>

<p>I think you are throwing around discrete numbers in a random way without necessarily seeing the big picture. I think Wheaton will cost you a lot more to attend than you think- and whether your parents end up paying the extra, or you end up having to take on more loans, I’m not convinced that you like Wheaton enough to actually attend if you really understood what it is actually going to cost your family.</p>

<p>I think you have better options than Wheaton. Better academically, less expensive, less risk to you. Which of those better options you should attend I can’t advise you- I don’t know you, and I’m not paying for your education so I don’t get to vote. But I’m pretty sure that Wheaton will discover the financial aid error-- probably after you’ve told all the other schools no… and then you will be stuck in September with no college. You may think you won’t fit at Clark but you probably will fit there better than you will working at Old Navy come September when you discover that Wheaton is unaffordable and that you need to wait until Fall 2013 to enroll in another more affordable college.</p>

<p>Financial Aid gets audited regularly. That means that an accountant or other financially trained person goes through the FAFSA statements and correlates the information you’ve provided with the offer letter you got from their financial aid office. If there is an error-- arithmetic, wrong line entered, a missing piece of income, etc it will be caught- eventually. It is unlikely that the error will be grandfathered in for a four year college stay… i.e. your aid will go down next year.</p>

<p>We’d all be having a different discussion if you’d provided data on why you must go to Wheaton. But I’ve lived in both Providence and Boston, and suspect that you would visit either city once or twice a semester- if that. Which doesn’t seem to me to be a compelling enough reason, especially since you have much stronger options, both academically and financially.</p>

<p>Go do your spreadsheets. You would not be the first college student who had to defer for a year due to finances, but since I know how long you’ve been pining away waiting for this stage of your life to start, it would pain me if one of us adults hadn’t warned you that if in fact there is an error in the financial aid application, it will get caught at some point, and you will need to make up the difference. Financial Aid is not like buying something with the wrong price tag at Target where they have to honor the lower price if something is mis-marked; if you have somehow miscalculated your income, the college will not honor the financial aid commitment they have made to you but will recalculate based on the new information.</p>

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<p>To take a position opposite of what Blossom is suggesting…or maybe in addition to it…try the emotional approach. Write a note to Knox telling them you’re going to Wheaton. Put it in a drawer for a few days. Do you feel regret? Do you want to send it? </p>

<p>Or…do the opposite.</p>

<p>Also…since you took the time to visit both schools…do you see yourself at one school versus the other? Forget the location, for a minute. Where were there students who looked more like you and sounded more like you? Where were there people who you think might become lifelong friends?</p>

<p>It appears that Knox has exchange programs where you could go to a Northeast school for a quarter or semester. One is in NY…another is in Washington. Maybe you could get your Northeast “fix” by going on one of these programs?</p>

<p>And…to the posters trying to get you to consider other schools, I wish they’d stop. You’ve visited a bunch of places and have narrowed it down to two. You may be somewhat brash…but…you’re trying to make a decision and have gone about it very intelligently, IMHO. Good luck!</p>

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<p>If you can’t make a decision based on what you know, look for what you don’t currently know. Comb through the website or course catalog - what are the core classes required for graduation? What about the actual major/minor you’re thinking about? What kind of electives are offered? You mentioned liking the trimester that Knox has, but it takes a 15 week class and condenses it into 10 weeks, making every class and homework assignment count. What would you do with the very long break from Thanksgiving to New Years? What about ending mid-June? What if you change majors, which school has a larger selection of majors/classes that you might be interested in? Both are small LAC, so classes offered is important to review.</p>

<p>These are cut and dried facts, if you will, nothing really emotional about it. I would not worry about proximity to cities as in all likelihood you’d barely visit twice a year. Nor would I worry about how liberal or conservative the towns are, mostly irrelevant when you’re on campus. Knox takes kids from all over, although about 1/2 to 2/3 will be from the midwest (but that includes Chicago). Oh, and how do you feel about the Honor Code at Knox? I’ve heard it makes some kids uncomfortable.</p>

<p>I do like 2boysima idea of mentally accepting one school and seeing how you feel and then the other. It’s worked well for many kids even though you know it’s not “real.” Good luck.</p>

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<p>One more thing, I don’t know what the required GPA is to keep merit aid at all schools. I think that this is something to find out and compare. Needing a 2.5 or even a 2.7 can be much less stressful than a 3.0 for both you and your parents. Some % of students lose their merit aid at college. I would think that merit aid can make the difference of finishing at a school that you attend, or needing to leave that school.</p>

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<p>I am actually very liberal. Ask any of my teachers haha. But “hippie” is something I am not. Socially, I am not alternative. I do not dye my hair or have any piercings or tattoos. Although, I don’t have a problem with kids who do. My uncle is a tattoo and piercing artist for God’s sake. I’m very much against smoking and the legalization of marijuana. I have acted since I was six, but I really don’t hang out with many drama kids except the African American girls. I am very outspoken and I’m never afraid to give my opinion. At Knox, I actually shared a comment in the classroom, while at the other colleges I did not. It honestly really aggravated me when no one was asking questions or discussing at Wheaton. I really am tired of being one of few liberals. But I am not looking for a socially alternative school.</p>

<p>I have lived in Georgia eight years, so I really just want people who are more like me for a change. I like people who care about politics, at my school, most people could careless or only support who their parents support. France was a disaster. I got a terrible family, and I honestly think I handled my situation the best to my abilities. And Earlham honestly was not that diverse compared to Clark. Clark had the most diversity out of any college I saw. Juniata was def “too white” for my taste. Clark isn’t cheaper for me to attend. It will be about 1.5k cheaper a year then Wheaton, but 2k more then Knox. But I have already axed it because it didn’t seem right. I also just want somewhere less religious. Some “Christians” here will condemn you to Hell if you aren’t Christian. I am a nonpracticing Catholic.</p>

<p>I have looked at cost a lot this year with help from calmom and some other CCers of course. The way I have looked at it has been for specific reasons. Thanks for the advice blossom and 2boysima. Blossom, you said I have better academic options. Are you just talking about Clark? Academically, Wheaton and Knox are about the same, but Wheaton is a tad bit better if you look at stats. </p>

<p>My dad told me while we were eating dinner that we could afford Wheaton, but I think Knox is the safer bet for several reasons. I’m likely to deposit tomorrow at Knox unless I change my mind drastically. I think I may talk to our college counselor tomorrow. She isn’t the terrible one I had (that’s my academic one), but is very nice and helpful. </p>

<p>I honestly do not know how our FASFA was wrong when our accountant put the numbers in herself. I saw her do it. The estimate is indeed wrong. I really do not understand, but my dad is going to call tomorrow for clarity. Like I said before, Knox very well may have added back some deduction from my dad’s schedule C.</p>

<p>I think I’ll feel regret if I tried the emotional approach with both colleges. I feel like I’ve gotten more emotionally attached with Knox admissions though. I really only talked to five students at Knox VS two at Wheaton, so it was hard to get a feel for the student body. It’s so hard to judge a school based on a few students. If you compare tour guides, I can see myself very good friends with the Knox tour guide. Wheaton, not as much. I think I’ll second guess myself where ever I go, but I’m going to try not to. Knox did feel clique in the cafeteria which I didn’t like. It’s also just so old and dusty (and small dorm rooms). I feel like Knox had more cons (greek life/football team), but there is still something gravitating towards it. </p>

<p>I know Knox has the NY/Washington program, so that’s something to look at. I do want to study abroad in Denmark wherever I go, both schools offer the program I want (DIS). </p>

<p>I’m really open minded when it comes to majors/minors. I think both schools are pretty open curriculum wise. I could take classes at Brown and Providence College at Wheaton, which is a big pro in my book. I really love Knox’s trimester system because I can focus only on three classes. Yes, it may be faster, but I’ve taken 5 AP classes already to prepare me for that. And no, they weren’t “easy” by any means. Although, I would say APES is just because of the subject material. </p>

<p>The Honor Code at Knox is definitely different, but while I was taking the Economics class at Wheaton, my dad said the tour guide said Wheaton has a similar Honor Code as well. So I guess that’s not an issue when both schools have it.</p>

<p>And I am pretty harsh at times, but that’s part of my personality. I am not happy go lucky in any way, but will try to make the best of my situation wherever I go. I have a very high work ethic and give everything my 110%. I know a kid who got a full ride to USC and he doesn’t even try anymore in class. I have the same exact grade as him (he’s just naturally smart) and I’ve never given in to senioritis. How many kids do you know have researched colleges since the 8th grade? Most of my friends didn’t even THINK about college until late junior year. I know some seniors who still haven’t taken the SAT and haven’t applied to college yet. The dance teacher in my school told a student that she didn’t need to apply to college until March.</p>

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<p>When schools are 15 or so miles apart (like Wheaton and Brown) it is not easy to coordinate schedules to take classes at the other campus. Its not impossible, but its not easy.
Really, do yourself a favor, go with your inclination and start getting excited about Knox. Nothing is perfect, but its got a lot in the plus column. One thing though. Its not very diverse. Someone said it is but not according to its stats. Hope thats not much of an issue. Don’t let it be.</p>

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<p>Our tour guide at Wheaton actually was taking an Advanced Chinese class at Brown, but she had her own car. There is a train though and all the buses are free for Wheaton students. </p>

<p>According to Knox’s website, “57% women; 43% men; 25% U.S. students of color (7% African American, 9% Asian American or Pacific Islander, 9% Hispanic, 2% Native American); 9% international.” </p>

<p>My school is about 45% African American and 55% White, so def will be a change.</p>

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<p>Its not impossible to take the classes, its just not easy. Transporation, class schedules, priority to matriculated students for classes on the campus, etc. Maybe as an upperclassman when schedules may be lighter or a half day is open to go to the other campus its easier, but its not a cakewalk to coordinate classes on two campuses. Not impossible, but not a walk in the park.</p>

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<p>EC,
I’ve followed your posts for a couple of years now. You have grown so much over this time, and are so much more mature…you will thrive wherever you choose to plant yourself.</p>

<p>Wherever you choose to attend, just remember to go with an open mind and an open heart and do not take regrets with you…because you will not know the road not taken, and romanticizing it will not achieve anything. The choice you make may not end up perfect in all respects, but that will not mean that your other choice would have been any more perfect, if you understand what I am saying.</p>

<p>Both schools will have some great/horrible classes, professors and students. You
WILL find your people, as long as you don’t define who they are or will be, before you have even met them. You don’t have to agree with people to enjoy them.</p>

<p>When you go to school, find and do the things you have always loved. And make sure you try things you have never done…even things like flag football with the kids in your dorm, or floor hockey, or inner tube water polo, as well as ceramics or the poetry club. I mentioned the sports specifically because you don’t like them…and yet they are a great way to get to know people informally, and to learn that a jock can have a poet’s heart, and that an orchestra nerd can have a wicked shot on net, and that all these folks can carry on a great political discussion over pizza or wings.</p>

<p>Make your decision, and then enjoy your next years.</p>

<p>P.S. Personally? I would choose Knox…it’s not just the immediate financial difference, it’s the lack of pressure to keep a certain gpa. His first semester, my son had a horrible cold all during his first set of midterms, and really dug himself in to a stressful academic hole. And the next semester, my son struggled with one required class…to keep himself above water in that one class, he actually hurt his performance in other classes. College academics are stressful enough… you don’t need to add a stressful finacial overlay to what you will be experiencing already.</p>