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<p>Sikorsky, asking for your performance does not grant you the job. What makes you think that? Also, I have done this during my four years of college career where I have received offers from some.</p>
<p>aunt bea, congratulations for your daughter on graduation.</p>
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<p>I am surprised to see the quote above coming from a person just as old as my parents because it is quite immature and confrontational. Which you preach in your response not to be.</p>
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I do not understand what you saying because it seems to be incoherent. Please explain.</p>
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Are you sure?</p>
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Thank you</p>
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Diana66, please refer to answer #18.</p>
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Please refer to answer #20.</p>
<p>@sikorsky, haha that is funny. But sorry Penny, maybe you should go back and finish your community college classes. </p>
<p>love that show.</p>
<p>OK, girlengineer, I don’t understand a word of your posts 20, 22 and 23.</p>
<p>What I understand from your post before that is that you were looking for opinions. The consensus seems to be that trying to duplicate that strategy in real life would be an exceedingly bad plan.</p>
<p>But you don’t seem to like that opinion. OK, fine. Do what you like. Doesn’t matter to me.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I had previously posted the following, but deleted it because I thought I was being too snarky. This, from an episode of Big Bang Theory, is what girlengineer is referring to in her post #24:</p>
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don’t know how to help there Sikorsky. Learn English? :)</p>
<p>And yes trying Kramer’s strategy in real life is a bad plan because things have changed a lot from 70s and this is not the movie world. I do not recommend anybody trying that. But asking the interviewer if they think you will progress? I do that so it is your personal choice. I always like to hear what my interviewers think of me.</p>
<p>I have an M.A. in English and a fairly lengthy career as an English teacher.</p>
<p>I suppose I could be the problem, but frankly, that’s not at the top of my differential diagnosis.</p>
<p>I can’t think of a faster way to blow an interview and not get the job. There is a reason this is in a movie script and not in real life… As someone else mentioned, once you get past the credentials screen, then it is mostly about fit. And being demanding (and I think someone rude and pushy, at least if I were the interviewer that is how I would see it) in an interview is the last thing you should do to show you can “fit” with a team. </p>
<p>There are very few companies that offer “on the spot”. A few of the big consulting companies do it because they are hiring a lot of people and they know it seems like a big sweetener to someone just out of college (“They like me! They REALLY like me!”); it is an ego boost to be offered the job while in an interview. If you have done a lot of interviewing and/or hiring, you would know that an offer that comes after they have talked to all candidates is just as valid. It is fine to close with how interested you are in the company and the job, how it seems like exactly what you are looking for and a great fit from your perspective, and how much you look forward to hearing from them. And certainly fine to ask them what the next steps are in the hiring process and when you can expect to hear something. But I would not go farther than that.</p>
<p>Just based on this and your past posts… I am starting to see why the offers are not flowing in… you seem tone-deaf to the interview process and how you come across.</p>
<p>girlengineer, when you post on an online forum comprised of experienced individuals who want to donate their time and effort to imparting wisdom they have learned as the result of making many mistakes along the way in the hope that you will not repeat those mistakes, it should be assumed that you are looking for advice. If you are not looking for advice, you should be giving advice, and since you seem to be doing neither, I must ask, why do you keep posting? You want to do things, and when you are told that you should go in a different direction, you become indignant, assuring us that you are correct, and then you are somehow surprised when your decisions don’t work out well for you.</p>
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<p>I think I took your statement exactly as I should have. If you make outward signs of boredom during an interview, you’ve sealed your fate and that’s just beyond question. But if you are feigning interest, you are not paying real attention. You shouldn’t be bored during an interview. Period.</p>
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<p>So you disagree… however, there seems to be a disconnect here. My strategy has worked pretty well for me and for quite a few of my friends, and your strategy has, well, not worked for you. You may have an inaccurate or incomplete understanding of “professionalism” … don’t confuse being professional with being up tight. You’re talking to people - people you will potentially be working with - and it is crucially important that, as others have said, you “fit.” So there is absolutely a way to be professional while not being lame. To use another school example, when I met my first contact at one of my more recent clients, I found out that his college has a bitter (and, historically, unfounded and hilarious) rivalry with my the college of my girlfriend at the time; cracking a joke or two was a perfect ice breaker, and we have had a phenomenal relationship ever since.</p>
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<p>A few others have explained their rationale behind why they would say a company is their top choice, and they have used sound logic - conventional wisdom is to hold information close to the vest, but if you want a collaborative relationship, sometimes it is good to reveal certain information to promote openness and honesty. I don’t agree with that strategy, but it is certainly one I respect, as it seems reasonable.</p>
<p>I am challenging you because you have no logic behind your argument. Why would a company care if you really want to work there? What would make them more likely to hire you?</p>
<p>Now, someone mentioned companies looking for career hires… I agree with that notion. If a company is looking for people who will develop through the ranks over the course of years, they are not looking for people who just want to use them as a stepping stone. This logic wouldn’t work at a place like Goldman Sachs, which has a pretty explicit two-year policy (i.e. either you’re on the fast track or you wash out, and nothing in between), but at many companies, they don’t want to put months of training and tens of thousands of dollars into someone who is just going to leave after a year or two. In many of my cover letters, I said explicitly that I was looking for a career, not two years for my resume. I want to believe that this had an impact, but I didn’t get any explicit feedback that it mattered. </p>
<p>So what exactly are you looking for? You say “opinions,” but you get quite defensive when those opinions are different from your own, so it seems like you really want validation. You deny that you want validation, so I just don’t know what you want.</p>
<p>In a previous career, I was trained to interview, and did that very successfully, as I was then trained to train more interviewers. We were taught NEVER to give either positive or negative feedback at any interview. As a matter of fact, before the interview even began, I would give a brief outline to the interviewee of how the interview would be structured, and the last line of my pre-interview talk was: “We have scheduled several interviews for this position, and should we decide to proceed with your application, we will let you know at a later date, after we have carefully considered everyone’s qualifications.”</p>
<p>I would never bow to pressure from any applicant to give me an answer immediately. It would not be professional, and in the case of a Kramer, I would remind them of my earlier interview procedure outline. If Mr. Kramer persisted, I would ask him to please leave. Any further response from him gets security involved, and he is escorted to the door.</p>
<p>That all said… my D, who is an engineer, recently received an offer from a new company, then received a call from a different company, offering an interview. This allowed her to play hardball with the 2nd company, and she asked for a decision form them regarding an employment package within a 24 hour period. That’s not how they normally operate, but, having job in hand allows you to be much more demanding - and get away with it. </p>
<p>Happy ending - D happy with 1st company offer, and didn’t pursue 2nd company. The moral of the story -a Girl Engineer can be in demand! And a Girl Engineer CAN play hardball - if she wants to.</p>
<p>Just a little insight from one person who owns a business and participates in all of the hiring.</p>
<p>People have talked themselves into or out of jobs with me.</p>
<p>One person I moved on more than I would have because she told me she knew our reputation and always wanted to work here. She ended up not being a fit, but I did at least move her on.</p>
<p>I can tell you endless stories of how people blow it, and it’s so stupid you wouldn’t believe people don’t know better. Tell me their personal problems, when I ask them what they liked about their previous job and they say something stupid like, I love talking to the customers about their personal lives, especially when they get a new puppy or something! If I ask about what they liked least about their job - they trash their former boss or coworkers. Or demonstrate how it was everyone else, not them. And even if someone doesn’t do something completely weird, I absolutely hate it when I ask them if they have any questions they can’t come up with a single one. It tells me they’ve done no research, they can’t figure anything out, they want any job they can get, etc. Ask anything like - tell me about a typical day, or what is your ideal candidate, or what is the hiring process or how long have you been in business. </p>
<p>If someone “demanded” an answer I’d just tell them the process and how we can’t just hire after a first interview or it’s a group decision, or we have to do background checks, references, etc.</p>
<p>I did this, for one of my very first jobs, still at the assistant level. I was back for my third interview, and I really connected with the interviewer. He was funny, and we laughed a lot and i felt very comfortable with him. At the end of the interview he said thanks, we’ll be in touch and I said something like:</p>
<p>“I’d really love to resolve this now, I’m working part time at Lord & Taylor and every time I take a train into NYC to interview at your company it costs $30, so if you want me…and I think you do, can we just wrap it up before you go into a hiring freeze?” </p>
<p>He laughed and hired me. I think it helped that it was a sales job in NYC, and he thought I had moxie. I was inspired by George Costanza’s Opposite Day…I just remember thinking that whatever I had been doing for my job search wasn’t working, so I might as well try something different.</p>
<p>I just watched the movie the other day. Quite unrealistic. Don’t forget the fact that he demanded the boss leave the holiday party to give him the answer RIGHT NOW. It made me realize how different times were then. Today, you need the job more than they need you. And don’t forget that you are one of a hundred applicants. They can’t give you the answer RIGHT NOW because they still have ninety-nine other people to interview and take into consideration.</p>
<p>You would do better to read Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People” than bank on Kramer’s scene.</p>
<p>I do think self-confidence is important. A friend said she always asks prospectives to rate themselves on a scale of 1 to 10 on if they think they could do the job. If someone gives themselves a 6, she won’t hire them. Why would you?</p>
<p>As an aside and as someone who has hired and supervised a lot of people, I am guessing that on average the guys answer that with a higher number than the women do regardless of their actual qualifications…</p>
<p>Hi Chrisw, </p>
<p>Since when is a forum defined solely as a place where you either give advice or get advice. Correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought a forum is a place where people exchange their ideas and views on a particular issue. As in this case, the “particular issue” is the Kramer’s interview scene. </p>
<p>Do you agree with him? Do you not agree with him? Have you done what he did in real life? Please let me know because I am really interested in knowing.</p>
<p>Am I going to do what he did in the future? Should I do it? Do you have any advice against it? Am I getting job offers? Am I sore loser in this job search?
You and many people here answered these questions but unfortunately I never asked them on the first place. </p>
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I was going to disregard the rest of your answer but my adolescent ego forced me to respond to the above mentioned quote. Are you really sure my strategy has not worked for me? Did you read a book about my career history to know if it worked or not?
Your strategy works for you, very good. Does it mean should you force it on me? no. I prefer my strategy and I am naturally too reserved to become very comfortable with the interviewer. The problem here is not my lack of professionalism and your abundance of professionalism. The problem here is we are two different personalities and you do things I may not agree on. It does not mean that you are right and I am wrong or vice versa. Just two different people.</p>
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nugraddad, that is a great confidence booster!</p>
<p>And madskye, I can’t believe you did that and it worked for you. </p>
<p>That is true intparent, on the scale thing I never answer as a 10 (rarely as a 9) because I am scared of coming off as arrogant. That is a confusing situation though.</p>
<p>And Chrisw, you asked me this question;
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<p>Let me answer it;
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<p>That’s exactly why I want to convince companies I really want to work for them. So they can be assured that they won’t waste money training me so that I can leave after the training and work for someone else. </p>
<p>So, yeah you asked and answered your question on your post:)</p>