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<p>EXACTLY, you do not understand.</p>
<p>go back and watch the movie</p>
<p>Demanding an answer on the spot whether you are going to be hired or not wreaks of desperation. Does an employer want to hire someone who appears desperate? I just don’t think so. Do they want to hire someone who takes their social cues/interviewing skills from a 1970s movie? I don’t think so.</p>
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This was in a third interview … which, in my expeirience, has typically been a final check off interview for the leading candidate (or the last two candidates) … being more assertive at this stage is NOTHING like making demands in a first interview (which I believe is the case in the Kramer versus Kramer situation).</p>
<p>LMAO, quite the entertaining read.</p>
<p>I just re-read the original post… and being “stern” is really a TERRIBLE idea in any job interview. I am going to give you some woman-to-woman advice here (as a woman who has worked in tech for almost 30 years). Woman in particular pay a price for coming across as too bossy, too direct, too pushy. You walk a very fine line (easy to fall off of on either side!) in this area. It is completely unfair, but absolutely true – as someone who is an independent contractor and interviews all the time, you will lose out every time if you come across that way. </p>
<p>It is ironic, because women often get “accused” of softening their speech and answers compared to men in business. The men just come right out and say something is a bad idea, isn’t the right thing to do, an idea is dumb, etc. Women are more likely to couch it a bit – “It seems to me…”, “One other way to look at it”, etc. Twenty five years ago we (women) were told that we weren’t moving ahead because we spoke in this more indirect way. But just try doing it the way the guys do – SMACK. You will be labeled with a lot of terms I would rather not list here. And it isn’t just the men who do that labeling – other women will, too! I had to LEARN to “couch” – no worries, I still have a core of steel. 
But externally I do not, or at least I am very, very careful about when I bring it out. The people I work with know that I am competent and not a pushover. But those gender issues are deeply embedded in our society and don’t seem to have faded much over the years. I think it is almost a subconscious thing, so interviewers and people in general don’t even realize they are doing it. They just think, “she is a b*<strong><em>” or a “harda</em></strong>”. And no one wants to hire one of those…</p>
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<p>There is quite a difference between wanting to find a career job and saying you really, really, really want to work at this one specific company, and one honestly has nothing to do with the other.</p>
<p>You can be in love with a company but have no plans to stay with them for a long time. What if you want to go to law school, so you want a couple of years to work and earn some money before diving in? Or what if you LOVE a company, but you decide after a year of working there that you have better opportunities elsewhere? Now that’s something you certainly won’t know before starting your job.</p>
<p>Others have mentioned that it may be an advantage to mention that a company is a top choice for you and have used sound logic to defend their position; I have the opposite view and have explained my logic. Now you get to look at the different opinions and decide which way you want to go.</p>
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<p>Well, I’m glad I didn’t write a whole response for nothing, then.</p>
<p>I certainly don’t mean to imply that my strategy is the only (or the best), and when you say that you are more reserved, then it makes sense not to follow my strategy, as it would be unnatural for you. Now we’re getting somewhere.</p>
<p>As for how successful you have been, well, if I recall, you had an offer in hand (which you declined, against the advice of pretty much everyone on this forum), and since then you have gotten no other offers. That tells me you haven’t been all that successful, and since you haven’t been terribly successful, it doesn’t make all that much sense to tell someone who has been successful in the job hunt that their strategy won’t work - I mean, objectively, that is a false statement!</p>
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<p>This forum is set up such that people looking for jobs can ask questions, and people who have been there before can answer those questions. If you post something that says, “I’m thinking of doing something like X. Give me your thoughts, world,” you can expect that you will get responses that say either, “Good idea! You should do that,” or “Terrible idea! You shouldn’t do that.” You can do with that what you will, but what you’ve been doing doesn’t make all that much sense.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who are trying to help you, and we will continue to do so as long as you keep posting on this forum. If you choose to ignore the advice you are getting, you’re only hurting yourself.</p>
<p>You have made mistakes, which is okay… everybody makes mistakes. It’s just a shame that you are wise enough to solicit advice from those who have been there before but foolish enough to ignore that advice, only to make the same mistakes we have all made and tried to keep you from making.</p>
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<p>Chrisw, let me ask you again. Did you read a book detailing my career history? Now I am starting to think you did because it seems like you have a lot of firm conclusions on my job search. Are you sure since then I have got no other job offers? Who told you that? Please give me a reliable source because anybody online can make assumptions on other people and if you do, please have some source to back them up. </p>
<p>I am not going to detail what happened since I declined that last offer ( yes I declined it because I was in a position to do so) but let me assure you that the above mentioned assumption is wrong. </p>
<p>I have a feeling you would respond back saying things like “that why you don’t have a job”, “that’s why you have never had a job”, “that’s why interviewers didn’t like you”, etc. etc. etc. but I won’t respond to them. You seem to be making a lot of false assumptions about other people to prove your point and I am not in the mood to come back and say that’s not true again and again. </p>
<p>It is true there are a lot of experienced people on this forum who are willing to help others. Does that mean every time I post something I am asking for help? absolutely no. Go back and read the original post and you will find that I am just asking for opinions from completely random people on something I saw on TV. Chrisw, I know you love to help others but unfortunately this is not a forum where someone * is looking for “help”.</p>
<p>I don’t want this going back and forth so please respond if you have opinions on Kramer (not me) and if you have personally experienced what he did. This is all out of curiosity and just sharings opinions and viewpoints.</p>
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<p>??? auntbea, I wasn’t being sarcastic. I honestly do not understand what you are saying.</p>
<p>You said this;
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<p>And how does going back and watching the movie resolve it? Or is that you being sarcastic? C’mon I really hope you are mature enough to know that when someone is actually confused with something you said you should further explain it and not say something else that is irrelevant.</p>
<p>And thank you for the insight, intparent.</p>
<p>You have a few good perspectives and a few that need adjusting. I interview and hire people from an HR standpoint. If someone asked me if I saw them progressing through the interview process, I would not provide them with an answer simply because I don’t know who the next interview will be. I do not promise anything. If they become persistent that I give them an answer, they will still not receive one and will likely be immediately crossed off my list. </p>
<p>There is a difference between being confident and being aggressive. Assertiveness is valued, but aggression is usually not. Demanding an answer before leaving is aggressive - asking for feedback on the interview is assertive and I have used this to my advantage. I had an interview where I knew I was not completely qualified. It went alright, but at the end I asked the interviewer if she had any advice for me on progressing in my field. She gave me some very valuable constructive feedback, as well as some very flattering compliments. She then gave me her card and told me to connect with her on LinkedIn. We have kept in contact, and after I received another job offer a few months later, she sent me a congratulatory message. I knew I wouldn’t get the job with her due to lack of experience, but I used the opportunity to make an impression and a connection. Had I asked to receive an immediate answer on my progression in the interview phase, I may have turned her off completely and lost that networking opportunity.</p>
<p>I realize you’re not looking for “help,” but keep in mind that someone who closes off opportunities to learn and grow will not learn and grow. You have the attitude that you are already as good as it gets, you have your own opinions, and no one will change your mind. Then why do you want to hear other opinions at all? To argue? You can always experiment in the interview process if you want to, but it would certainly not be the advice given to those who are on a serious job search. A lot of this feedback depends on the interviewer, their disposition, and the type of work you are applying for. But those of us who have interviewed and hired, and been interviewed ourselves countless times know the general do’s and don’t’s. There are always exceptions to the rule, but you should know the rules and how they work before planning to break them at any given time.</p>
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<p>Well my first question is, have you gotten any other job offers? If so, congratulations… having offers on the table certainly helps your case and gives you a lot of leverage when working with other companies to get to the offer stage.</p>
<p>Regardless, you’re right… I don’t know what your situation is. I do know that you declined an offer because you hoped you would get a different offer. That’s your choice. It appears that you aren’t desperate for a job and are in a position to hold out until you get an offer that you really love. It also appears that you are frustrated with a lack of communication between yourself and hiring departments at companies - this is an extremely common and legitimate frustration that almost everyone experiences at some point. Fair assumptions?</p>
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<p>Ah, don’t forget that another aspect of a forum is that many people read things, so just because you have no desire to learn and grow, it doesn’t mean that others won’t benefit from reading the experiences and perspectives in this thread. This thread has been viewed more than 1,600 times… I’d be willing to bet that at least one person looked at what was written and got some good information. </p>
<p>It’s really just a shame for you that you aren’t interested in advice. Hopefully, once you do get an offer, you won’t take that same attitude with you into the workplace… I’ve worked with people who don’t want to hear how to improve, and it’s pretty brutal.</p>
<p>My opinion of the scene in Kramer vs Kramer (I remember it well), was that he had a lot of balls to talk like that during an interview. But remember, Kramer was desperate. DESPERATE. He needed a job by 5 p.m. that day to keep his son. People do desperate things in desperate situations. I have worked in Human Resources for a number of years. I can tell the difference between a 50 year old man who is desperate for a job to keep his dying wife on health insurance, vs a 22 year old recent college graduate who just wants to be an ass. Also, I remember hiring and job interviewing in the mid-1970’s. During the 70’s, I remember having one interview for one job, often with the hiring authority (like in the movie). It was a lot different from today; not as many committee interviews, or paperwork to be filled out to show you’re following EEO guidelines. In the 1970’s a boss could just hire someone on the spot because he liked the guy; it happened all the time. Not anymore.</p>
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<p>+1 !!!</p>
<p>Of course desperation might have an effect on Kramer’s situation. I always thought of desperation during a job interview as a negative sign.</p>
<p>So 50ishwoman, would you consider the man’s need for a job to support his dying wife as a hiring factor?</p>
<p>I imagine the 50ish guy wanting to keep his wife on life support would be a much more loyal employee willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done versus a cocky senior thinking they’re owed an exception.</p>
<p>^^ But on the flip side, an individual with a lot of personal stress and heartache can bring that into the workplace. I’ve seen many employees’ performance diminish when a personal emergency or other long-term stressful situations came up. It can cloud their thinking and ability to focus on projects and details. I don’t think it is appropriate to tell an interviewer that you need the job to support your dying spouse. Some people provide entirely too much personal information in an interview. </p>
<p>If an applicant said that to me, I would consider the impact on work performance, but still compare his/her qualifications with other interviewees.</p>
<p>girlengineer, I’m genuinely curious as to why you would be “stern” with an interviewer and demand an immediate read on your candidacy. What kind of answer would you expect the interviewer to be able to give you? The interviewer will not even have had a chance to meet and discuss your interviews with all the people you met with, much less compare your interview and qualifications to other candidates they are interviewing. I can see such a question and demeanor from a candidate leading to some interesting discussion when the interviewers get together to compare and rank the candidates.</p>
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<p>I interpreted her post as being more like, “If you are desperate you might be more aggressive than you otherwise would have been”. This guy was on the end of his rope, backed into a corner; it might not be PRUDENT to be that demanding of your interview but it if it feels like life and death you arem ore likely to do things that not are prudent.</p>
<p>It’s not a good idea in real life though; in movies, people who act crazy in public always, always profit from it. In real life, your mileage varies wildly; maybe you might get lucky, but usually if you make someone uncomfortable as soon as you meet them they won’t want to spend their entire careers with you.</p>
<p>To the OP–so, how did your strategy work out? Do you have a job now? I’m curious to learn your insight on interviewing now.</p>