<p>How many ensembles do you, or your children, participate in at college? Wind players: do you play in an orchestra or have you ever had a semester where you were only in band? I'm asking because I just got placed into band for college and the auditions weren't blind and i think I won't be allowed to reaudition for orchestra until sophomore year which is a little bit upsetting to me. I mean maybe I wouldn't have made it in anyway but it would have been nice to havea second chance to reaudition. The band professor told us all the placements were approved by our studio teachers and that we won't have reseating all year unless the studio teacher asks to make "adjustments". My school has two bands and two orchestras, one of which is grad students only, so it's possible i could graduate without ever having played in an orchestra. Right now the only time I play in groups are an optional chamber music group and band, so most of the week i'm not playing in groups at all. Do conservatory students get to play in ensembles every day, and do they compete against grad students for orchestral seating? Basically what i'm trying to ask is, are all these procedures normal (non-blind auditions, studio teacher decides placement, lack of re-auditioning, not getting to play in an orchestra) or is there something wrong with my school?</p>
<p>It sounds to me like your disappointed in the fact that you got assigned to band rather than orchestra, not that you lack performance opportunities. I don’t know what you play, but I am assuming that you play a wind instrument. You know that they don’t use that many wind players in an orchestra. It is highly likely that your school has many more flute players, for example, than the the 2-3 that would be used in an orchestra. If your school has 2 orchestras and one is mostly for graduate students, there is not going to be a lot of room for undergrad wind players in the orchestra. </p>
<p>You auditioned and you were not chosen. You will have 3 more years in which to audition. It is likely that they try and seat upper classmen when possible so that they do get an orchestra experience. </p>
<p>I think that different schools run things different ways. My son was a cellist at Eastman. They have a chamber orchestra for grad students, 2 orchestras - one for freshman and sophmores and one for juniors and seniors, and a wind ensemble. All instrumentalists are required to play in an ensemble every semester every year. Each ensemble rehearses for 2 hours five days a week. They do a concert once a month. At the beginning of each concert cycle, seating is changed by the directors. I don’t know how wind players were assigned. My guess is that they were assigned by semesters, but I don’t know. I do know that the Eastman Wind Ensemble has a wonderful reputation. I think all wind players attending know that they will be playing in that group and look forward to it. As far as chamber music goes, it was required for 4 semesters but most students did 8. When my son was not required to participate he signed up for it anyway.</p>
<p>Well at my son’s school they have a concert band, symphonic band, wind ensemble and string orchestra, opera orchestra and symphony orchestra. There are also smaller ensembles like brass or woodwind ensemble, jazz and latin ensembles, quartets and quintets in all kinds of combinations. They audition twice a year, once open and once blind but the truth is the studio prof has the final say so even if you win the blind audition they can override this for a variety of reasons. Is it possible that you might never play in the full symphony ? Yes. Be thankful there is a graduate symphony, at some schools you would compete against grad students for these positions. Every school fills their slots differently.</p>
<p>btw… my son plays the euphonium, the odds are very good he will never play in the symphony unless it is a modern piece and their are euph or baritone parts written for the piece. Last semester he was first chair in the symphonic band, this year he will play 6 months as first chair in the concert band instead as he was placed in the honors brass ensemble. Starting in February he will be in the Wind Ensemble, probably until he graduates.
There is a good possibility that several members of his studio will never play in the wind ensemble as there are only 2 slots. Nor sure if that’s fair but it’s the way it will probably be. School mimics life.</p>
<p>At my son’s school, there are two orchestras (as well as a contemporary music ensemble and baroque orchestra). Most of the grad students are in the more senior orchestra which has mostly 3rd and 4th year strings. There are one or two bands/symphonic wind ensembles. Everyone must play in a large ensemble every semester. Rehearsals are three times per week for two hours each time.</p>
<p>Everyone must play in a chamber ensemble every semester, as well. The amount of rehearsal varies. Some groups do only 2 or 3 hours per week; my son’s has been rehearsing 4 times weekly for 2 to 3 hours each time.</p>
<p>Auditions for orchestra are blind (and twice yearly, I believe). I have the impression that the blind is lifted prior to final decisions which is as it probably should be–in close cases, there may be factors other than the quality of the audition that should reasonably be considered. I was pleasantly surprised that auditions were blind. I suspect that even with blind auditions, the listeners often have a very good idea as to who is playing, especially at the upper level: players have different strengths and weakness, differing sounds, and distinguishable styles.</p>
<p>As shennie and sagiter mention, there just are not many orchestral chairs for winds, so most winds get most of their large ensemble experience in bands rather than orchestras. I think that at most of the better schools, it would be relatively unusual for a freshman wind to play in orchestra unless the school severely limits their intake of wind players.</p>
<p>You should not be disappointed in your first-year experience. Typically, winds parts in orchestral music have a much higher proportion of rests than wind parts in band music. Thus you usually get more playing time in band. The brass often have huge rests (over 80% of many orchestral works) and often don’t have parts period in many orchestral works.</p>
<p>I should have mentioned that keen students will often form their own ensembles (although obviously not orchestras). As well, if your are really craving the orchestra experience, then you could seek out community orchestras in the area to see if they need any of whatever instrument you play.</p>
<p>My son’s school also has a non-performing orchestra which gives students sight-reading experience with a large body or repertoire and also gives conducting students opportunities.</p>
<p>DS1 plays brass. When he was in attendance for his BM, blind auditions were held for the few coveted orchestral seats the first week of class each semester. He made it every semester but one. Anyone who did not win a seat with the orchestra played in either wind ensemble or concert band. And yes, there were students who never got the chance to play with the symphony in their four or five years there.</p>
<p>The school also has an opera and dance program. Students with good chops and reputations for being reliable were recruited for pit orchestras. Occasionally, conflicts would prevent the top tier students from being able to perform in the pit, which opened the door for others. (Hint: if your school offers programs in these areas, find out what the procedure is for being selected for the pit orchestras. DS loved playing opera - he claims the parts were “meatier”.) The school also offered a musical theater degree, and he was invited to play for those productions as well, but usually declined because he was simply too busy.</p>
<p>I am not sure how things worked for his MM - I think they just rotated the players they had since it was a relatively small conservatory. He played principal at some performances, second chair at others, and a few he didn’t play in at all. </p>
<p>DS2 is a string player and all of his seating auditions at school are held once in the fall and thus far have been blind. I am not sure how they handle placement for the other sections.</p>
<p>Both S’s play/played in many ensembles besides the “big” ones - quartets, piano trios, string or brass choirs, contemporary ensembles, baroque, you name it. It was not a lack of performance opportunities they faced, but an overabundance. </p>
<p>Ask around - you’ll find plenty to keep you busy.</p>
<p>My daughter attends the same college as Sagiter’s S and she was lucky enough to make it to orchestra this year and hopes to keep her seat for the next 2 years.
The possibility of not making it to Orchestra was one of the reasons for her to not go to McGill. She does want to go there for her MM though. She knows 2 students one of which has now graduated and the other is in 4th year and neither of them have played in Orchestra, they are very disappointed because their dream was and is to play in a Orchestra. It is a rough road for musicians.</p>
<p>I’m in a vastly different school/program then anyone who has posted so far (being there are no large classical ensembles–the large ensembles are two traditional big bands and one more modern, pop/fusion oriented big band) as well as two sets of small-medium ensembles (performance ensembles which require a good audition and departmental ensembles which are open to anyone in the department and focused on building skills so that the players can make it into an auditioned ensemble the following year). The large ensembles take one guitar player each and the studio is around 30 players, so it stands to reason that the majority of players don’t get any large ensemble experience; which is basically ok as there are a lot of other opportunities (theres plenty of musicals put on by the school of theatre and it’s not like big band gigs are common place). The way the small ensembles work is that you can take as many as you can get into and basically everyone who is at a level where they can play well enough to get in a small group does. The last school I was at had two sets of ensembles for the large groups (band, orchestra, chorus), one which was open admission and one which was auditioned. I played euphonium in the open audition band (I picked it up the summer before) and sang in the open audition choir, as well as playing in a jazz training band (a group to get you ready for big band playing–mostly focused on reading skills) and a combo as well as playing in my own band.
Both schools had vastly different sets of ensembles (one strictly classical and straight ahead jazz and the other has mostly jazz ensembles, with some rock and pop ensembles available) but performance and learning opportunities are available for those who want them.
Remember that theres no such thing as inadequate performance opportunity, you just need to make your own opportunities and broaden your horizons. As a musician you cannot just rely on the work given to you by others or pigeon-holing yourself into one genre (despite the fact that it might be where your strengths lie at this moment). Even if your at a school that just offers classical music you could probably find an entry-level jazz combo to play in (or at least a class to prepare you for that, or if you have experience in that sort of environment a more advanced group), you could probably find players who would take a well trained wind player in their rock band (or if your lucky enough to find one–a third stream ensemble), you could try picking up a new instrument and playing in a non-major ensemble, you could probably find work playing cannon in D at weddings, you can play in the chorus, you can start jamming with rock and funk players (which doesn’t require a knowledge of theory or the ability to play through complex changes, just a good ear, ability to groove, being nice, confidence and desire to make the group sound good).
Sorry if this sounds preachy, but I was in a very similar situation last year (only playing in two ensembles) and I am firmly of the belief that if you are not playing with other musicians in some capacity every day (barring days you need to prepare for a gig/lesson/jury/test/ or taking time off to avoid injury), you are not taking advantage of the unique situation you are in being in a program. Just because your learning one type of music and your diploma will say Performance or Jazz Studies or Composition or whatever doesn’t mean you can’t find opportunities playing other styles/exploring other musical traditions and ideas.</p>