last minute duke vs vanderbilt!

<p>Hey guys, I know this is late in the game but it took FOREVER for Duke to send me my financial aid, long story. Both places are currently holding my place but I need to decide ASAP. I currently have a full ride to Vanderbilt, and almost no scholarship to Duke. I could hypothetically still go to whichever college I preferred regardless of money, but I would prefer not to spend the extra money if the money difference doesn't outweight the education/experience difference. I'm torn with student body-I feel like Duke students are more intelligent as a whole but also more pretentious/no where near as nice as Vandy kids. My interests lie in writing, film (maybe screenwriting??), and/or polysci. I'm not 100% sure yet how i want to organize them into a major, but having solid programs available to me in each is a huge priority for me. I know in English and Polysci Duke is considered WAYYYYY better (I do not know about film, however, although I do know Duke has supposedly a great documentary film program) so I was wondering if any of you can offer your opinion on these programs at Vandy and maybe contrast them to Duke? Is it worth the money differential? Thanks! :)</p>

<p>I can’t speak to those specific programs, but I can speak to Vandy as a school as a whole…and wow, your comment about Duke students being “more intelligent” is a little frustrating. You’ll find tons of extremely bright students at Vandy, including many who turned down “higher ranked” schools to go there (yes, including H/Y/P) because of the unique culture and experience it offers. True, when you first meet a Vandy student your first impression is probably “wow, he/she is so nice/friendly/down-to-earth,” not “wow, he/she is exuding brilliance,” but that doesn’t mean they’re not extremely bright!! With a 15% acceptance rate (lower than U Chicago, Northwestern, and many others that are ranked “higher,” you just can’t get into Vandy anymore without being intelligent and accomplished. And for the record, Vandy beat out Duke in the cross-admit battle for the class of 2014!!</p>

<p>As for the money issue…that scholarship is extremely selective (less than 1% of applicants get it each year) and I would think of it as more than just money–it’s a really great honor as well. Vandy is offering you an amazing school at an amazing price, and a prestigious designation tacked on to an already prestigious education…that’s a lot! </p>

<p>Also, though, consider the culture of both schools. It sounds like you’ve thought about this a bit, but just think about the overall feel you get when you’re on Duke’s campus vs Vandy’s campus. They’re extremely different, and you might just plain feel “right” at one and not at the other. Also don’t forget about distinguishing features–ex. Vandy is in Nashville (an amazing city to live in!!), Duke is in Durham…also, Duke freshmen have to bus to class–might not be a big deal for many, but it can definitely be a turn-off for some. </p>

<p>Well you know which school I’m rooting for, but in the end just choose whichever truly feels like the right school for you. Good luck!</p>

<p>I’m sorry, I just find this funny. Duke as more intelligent? Really dude? No, Duke students simply have higher SAT scores. If you go to their website, and type in “intellectualism”, you’ll notice that they’ve had serious issues/discussions on the prevalence of a lack of intellectualism on campus. Most schools that have students w/similar SAT scores as Duke don’t have a huge problem w/it to the point where it needs to be constantly addressed by faculty and administrators (though I applaud them on trying. However, despite their continuing rise in prestige since the conversations began, they seem to really struggle with it). Their SATs do not indicate their level of intelligence or engagement obviously. Also, overall academically, outside of the programs that you cite, Duke is not too much different. It simply has more prestige and gets more attention (successful sports/effective marketing). If I were to judge it based on UG academics, I would not have it in the top 10 personally (they are 10 right?). Other places that take academics more seriously (I am led to believe that Duke has more grade inflation as it a grad. gpa so much higher than Vandy’s, about .06-.1, that it cannot be justified by the differences in SAT scores which really aren’t that big. On top of that, they have similar programs. The fact that they have a 3.4+ grad gpa w/a supposedly legit engineering school is strange. That’s higher than ours and we don’t have engineering. Vandy’s is only slightly above 3.3, go figure. Duke is hardly rigorous for a top 10 school), and have a more intellectual student body could afford to take that spot. I would gladly replace it w/at least one school between 10-15. I assure you, if you go there, you will not find a culture all that much different from Vandy’s (especially academically). I think their rank (which I believe is inflated, but this has clearly benefited them in a very measurable way) fools people.
Also, Durham is relatively boring. I’ll give Duke the fact that it has a very beautiful campus, but so do many top schools.</p>

<p>Sunshine: avoid using cross-admit battle results. Seems that two different types of applicants apply to Vandy and Duke. Y’all probably only share a portion of the type of applicants that Duke gets. I mean, for example. The percentage of Asian matriculates is very noticeable (Duke in the 20percentiles and Vandy not 10% yet). This gets tricky. For example, what if many of these “cross-applicants” were white students, many from the south and then decided to apply to Duke, even they already had an inclination toward Vandy (has a unique southern culture thing going on on the campus even though the regional demographics have changed a lot). Also, Vandy fin. aid is probably superior. Admit rates are also tricky (literally). While Vandy has a low admit rate, Duke’s SATs are still higher. So admit rates are really weird and kind of just reflect the amount of applicants or attempts to boost rank in some cases. Vandy’s admit rate for 2-3 years now has been lower than some peers, but the SATs haven’t changed an exorbitant amount (though app. numbers have). Chicago is an example of a place that can yield a great class w/o rejecting everyone. Then again, it’s academic atmosphere is so unique that it only attracts certain types of applicants/students. It seems that we kind of use their model (except that our app. pool is more stereotypical, and given that, a sudden rise in popularity will probably make us more like y’all. Hope it doesn’t happen soon).</p>

<p>Anyway, I don’t think Duke students exude brilliance too much more than many other top 20 students (and much less than many Ivies, even those lower ranked, and places like Chicago and the engineering schools). People are led to believe that because of the rank and SAT scores of those students. </p>

<p>Either way, really think about it based on most of the stuff Sunshine posted and reassess what you mean by “more intelligent”. If the student body doesn’t like engaging themselves intellectually, this perception of intelligence is relatively meaningless and you should choose other factors to make a decision.
W/a full ride, I would go to Vandy. The difference isn’t really enough, especially with your majors (honestly, with those, you would’ve been well off here, but I guess we aren’t “intelligent enough” for you).</p>

<p>But anyway, just think about it. Good luck make a decision.</p>

<p>For the record, I’ll admit that Duke is certainly very successful w/job and grad/prof. school placement for various reasons, which I believe are actually apart from the actual (as opposed to perceived) educational quality/rigor as they really aren’t too much different from most top 20s, except those pre-dominantly STEM like MIT, Caltech, and maybe Hopkins, and perhaps Princeton post grade deflation. It’s probably what the students have time to do outside of the classroom (as one can question if many are doing much inside of it), solid mentoring, alumni network, etc. However, most of these opportunities are for the most part of the student’s to take advantage of, and most at top 20s will have access to such things. Basically, since you are already a great student, it’s really up to you to be the “go-getter”, which is really easy to do at either Vandy or Duke. Going to Vandy will not lower your potential in those fields.</p>

<p>Well I personally think you should go with Vanderbilt! (: I am not implying that one is better over the other, but it seems like you really like the school. Both schools are superb, and to have to choose only one can actually take an ample amount of time. Go with your instincts, because there will be several opportunities coming your way by just attending either or. BTW, you can’t really say Duke kids are just a bunch of nerds, you did get accepted; it kinda reflects back to you. Either way, I agree with bernie12, you are the ‘go-getter,’ choose what seems right for you! (:</p>

<p>Go to Vanderbilt, it’s free!</p>

<p>Go to Vanderbilt and don’t look back and then bring your best game. Being on scholarship has perks you can’t appreciate but you will appreciate later. Personally I think it is boneheaded to drop almost 200 grand on a tiny tiny prestige perception.</p>

<p>Vanderbilt’s current class and your class are just phenomenal people and Vandy’s great success and reputation is definitely getting out there.</p>

<p>I have a Duke 09 grad and a son didn’t even like Duke enough to apply and grads Vandy in 13. The Duke son almost died when he saw the Commons and is jealous that younger bro gets to enjoy the many merits of Nashville (so much nicer a city than Durham re resources and events). Duke son loves Duke but also loves Vandy.</p>

<p>Unless your family really doesn’t care about the money…go to Vanderbilt. The differences in the student body are becoming negligible. Diversity factors are vastly vastly increasing at Vanderbilt…would make your head spin to see the diff in the student body in five short years. My son just went to NYC and stayed in four diff multicultural homes of Vandy friends…none of the same background…all with another language in the household. My son really likes his friends from all over the world at Vandy.</p>

<p>I would say the Econ Dept at Duke is very superior to Vandy’s but my Duke Econ grad is currently working and admiring kids from all sorts of less selective schools who are simply job ready or talented–so again, it is the student that is the deciding factor, not the college of origin…Duke’s BioMed Engineering is second in the USA…these sorts of factoids count but otherwise, Duke and Vandy are very comparable on many levels. Ok.not in sports. My Duke son bleeds blue.</p>

<p>But have you heard the Nashville Symphony or been to the gazillion sports venues and arts and public speaking events that come through very fun Nashville?</p>

<p>Duke will still be there for grad school. And did we talk about the pricetag of grad school if you are looking at Law or Business? Cash cow programs that will cost you a bundle but could mean a lot more than the diff between Duke and Vandy. Vanderbilt will get you in prime shape for grad school. If you are a CV scholar you are also a College Scholar. Wonderful asset.</p>

<p>I wonder why they put Duke ahead of Tech this year. Who knows? It’s USNWR.</p>

<p>re film programming…my son is active in the film programs at Vanderbilt and there are many events also just down the street at the Belcourt Terrace theatre where celebs or film makers appear (see its website)…also constant film events at Sarratt on campus, international film festivals with lectures by Vandy profs year round… Duke does have a good documentary program but Nashville has a big film community. Duke sometimes hooks up with Chapel Hill in some departments like languages.
Son took a fab course on film soundtracks in the Blair Conservatory. Blair is a great asset at Vandy and Duke does not have a music conservatory or the same level of involvement in the music industry compared to Vandy. Re English. Hope you have heard of Robert Penn Warren and the Fugitive movement all founded at Vanderbilt. Do not believe English is better at Duke. At all. Re Poli Sci…great department at Vanderbilt plus you are in a state capitol. Will admit that Duke’s School of Public Policy (Sanford) is superior to Vandy’s public policy programming but Public Policy at either school takes up a lot of your credits. If you are not a Policy person, and instead will double or triple major…in Poli Sci…there really is no reason to not choose Vandy. Our son has had excellent international politics, profs and culture experiences in first two years at Vandy.</p>

<p>Hey Tea123, Good luck with your decision. I am sure you can’t go too wrong with either decision, but I would like to give you some advice based on knowing two students who had the exact same offer; one of these students took the scholarship to Vandy and the other forwent the scholarship and went to Duke. As friends of both, I can say both are of similar mental capacity and ambition, and I want to compare for you their 1) post grad plans 2) experience. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Flash-forward 4 years. They were both pre-law. The one at Vanderbilt coasted through it (he told me he never really had to work too hard because his classmates weren’t up to scratch… His words, not mine!) excelled and got summa cum laude, and tons of awards from the university, did well on his lsats and got into a top 10 law school. The one who went to Duke, with the academics but ended up doing all right (cum laude). When he applied to law school, he got into a top 10 school (four ranks above the other guy’s but that is inconsequential) and a full tuition. The Duke student had several people from his class joining him in the class (he liked having this network go with him), while the Vanderbilt guy didn’t have anyone else from his school (which he preferred). Judge for yourself which experience you’d prefer.</p></li>
<li><p>The Vanderbilt guy enjoyed Nashville and got away from the campus feel a lot to do different social things. The Duke guy enjoyed the campus life and explored Durham occasionally mostly in the context his fraternity events. The Vanderbilt guy enjoyed being the big fish in the smaller pond and it worked for him; he has many friends in the South he can network with. The Duke guy enjoyed the extremely intellectual environment and ambition of his friends and has a great network as well. Like I said both enjoyed their experience but one thing that bothered my Vanderbilt friend was he always asked the ‘what if he had gone to Duke’ question. He understood that the reputation and opportunities at Vanderbilt were good, but he often wished he had gone elsewhere because he wanted to be challenged more by the people around him. My friend at Duke never expresses the same what-if. Personally, I didn’t want to either</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Reminder, this is anecdotal comparison of two similar and talented students. Make your decision and go full steam ahead. Good luck!</p>

<p>That sounds nice, but we know Duke students (given it’s rank, prestige good basketball team and all) aren’t really willing to express any dissatisfaction (they have lots of school pride. Vandy students do to). Also, that person must have gotten lucky on the intellectual stimulation thing because again, Duke is hardly intellectual at all (again, it has been an ongoing discussion on its campus, with some people using arguments against increased intellectualism like:“Do we really want to just become another Ivy” as if the intellectualism associated with the Ivies is a bad thing. I would argue that Rice and Emory are more intellectual than Duke despite the lower SAT scores, which certainly are not very indicative of intellectualism or brilliance for that matter. It only requires one to circle letters, no original answers to probs, like an AP for example) and neither is it demanding (again, not many top 20s are) as it grades significantly easier than most non-Ivy peers (including Vandy. Vandy grades like .1 lower than Duke. I would say that Rice and Duke grade more similarly. But honestly, Duke is starting to catch Harvard and apparently only 40% of it can be explained by SAT increases over the years). The success (grades wise) probably had nothing to do with the rigor of each school and moreso with the students themselves and their study habits (even a brilliant person can get lower grades). Also, they were more than like humanities or political science majors. The courses in those departments are hardly ever graded on a curve at any school, so therefore you won’t be “challenged” by your peers. Also, one could probably easily coast at Duke if they simply choose easy professors (there are certain to be an abundance in humanities and social sciences). With like a 3.45+(it was like 3.44 in 2007) average GPA at Duke, it is clear that more people coast at Duke than at Vandy where the average is maybe a 3.33-3.35 (if one assumes inflation since 2008 when the average was 3.32, over .1 lower than Duke)
A person at a less prestigious school with an offer to a more prestigious school that turned it down is simply more likely to ask “what if” (I find that people at less prestigious schools than some more sought after peers tend to automatically assume the peer is significantly better even though they don’t research, have never sat in a class, or have no proof. They can only claim, “well it ranks X” or it’s “x sports team” is better, or “it has better alumni connections”, none of this academic, yet some somehow people even make blanket, unsupported claims about the academics at another school. Why make claims, when one can go find a syllabi or assignment/exam on that school’s website?). Either way, sounds like both ended up successful. I wouldn’t use personal anecdotes in this case. I would simply compare faculty, course requirements, and research and internship opportunities. And again, Vandy is free. I would not put myself in a significant amount of debt to attend Duke for pre-law (or anything for that matter). The person got no money/scholarship at all and Duke, like every other top school is ridiculously expensive.<br>
I really just hope the OP makes the decision on something other than hearsay about the quality and prestige of a program. One should look deeper into what the programs themselves entail. This requires research, which will yield more useful information than “perceived” quality. You would be surprised how similar certain programs and opportunities are across top schools, even among those that are supposedly “really good”. Like for things like political science, only a few will stand out because of their location and the political activism on campus (places like Georgetown, Tufts, JHU come to mind.). Also, prestige doesn’t measure quality of instruction or rigor in the humanities/social sciences (again, it’s normally inversely related if ever by time you get the top 25 or so. Brown, Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are excellent examples of this. Any rigor of content is completely neutralized by the grade inflation which will allow people to not do the work and get a B-/B at worst and maybe a B+ at these institutions. And in terms of quality instruction, studies have shown that Harvard students are more disappointed than those at other top institutions. Seems their prestige really went a long way to provide quality instruction).<br>
If one wants to gauge that, go to the schools’ websites and explore if teaching awards are given and see how much of the faculty in the dept. of interest have received those awards. This is at least indicative of how students there view the level of the instructors. My point is, research, research, research! Not grapevine lol. </p>

<p>Anyway, OP, I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully you make a well-informed decision. Unless it is something specific about quality instruction or oppurtunities, I would listen to the grapevine with skepticism. Take what we say, and research it for yourself. That includes the GPA numbers I put out (though some of them come from articles associated w/the schools themselves, you should try looking for them), try to see if syllabi are available for courses you plan to take at both schools (I’m sure there is plenty of overlap in course offerings) and compare. I bet you’ll find that, for some classes or profs, Vandy seems to have a heavier/more meaningful workload, and for others, Duke (also, see if the equivalent courses have different pedagogy/approach to instruction or amount of material introduced). I really doubt Duke will win in every case (or most for that matter).</p>

<p>

I’ll be blunt and say you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Glancing through your past posts, you seem to have a habit of making such uninformed posts, most of which come across as extremely insecure. </p>

<p>My top choice in high school was Chicago. I loved the intellectual nature of the place, but I couldn’t afford it thanks to its terrible financial aid. I ended up at Duke and was happy as a clam. I majored in an esoteric humanities field and had a lot of fun connecting with other students and faculty who shared my interests (Classics club, for instance, is alive and kicking). I then went to graduate school in an even more esoteric field, and I’ve found that my Duke education has served me in exceedingly good stead. </p>

<p>Duke comes in #27 in PhD production per capita among all schools and #12 among universities. Emory and Vanderbilt are nowhere to be seen in the top 50.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60980-phd-production-total.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60980-phd-production-total.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Duke beats almost all universities except HYPS and Brown for post-graduate fellowship production (e.g. NSF fellowships). Again, Vanderbilt and Emory did not make the list, which includes the top 17 privates.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/798325-rhodes-marshall-truman-nsf-fulbright-scholars-private-universities.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/798325-rhodes-marshall-truman-nsf-fulbright-scholars-private-universities.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Moaning about 0.1 differences in GPA is all well and good, but let’s be serious – the actual results are what matters, and Duke has a leg up over most of its southern peers. </p>

<p>Vanderbilt is a great school with many similarities to Duke. I would certainly take even a smaller scholarship over full price Duke, and Vandy for free is obviously a no-brainer.</p>

<p>I actually do have an idea what I was talking about. I already know that Duke and top 10 schools do extremely well in the “awards” arena. I did not make up those numbers, and I also didn’t make up material on all of the articles I’ve seen in Duke’s Chronical on grade inflation and the lack of intellectualism on campus (many non-Ivies suffer from it. In fact, most colleges suffer from, not just Duke). If you would like to refute those articles, please do sco. I said to let the prestige go. Duke is excellent, but it has advantages due to its prestige and alumni network. It’s intellectual atmosphere is not too special. Also, the point of emphasizing the GPA was to say that Duke is not really more demanding than its peer institutions (like the personal anecdote above me tried to suggest). Do you think the courses of study often associated w/pre-law students are special at Duke, so that they are grading on a curve? No the numbers indicate that they grade just like everyone else. Grades in the social sciences and humanities are significantly higher than the natural/hard sciences like at every other school, so the idea that we can say for sure that Duke is harder than Vandy is kind of crap, and again the GPAs dispute it.
If you have a student body that tests well, and can benefit from a solid grade inflation along with the school’s prestige, there will be excellent advantages when it comes to applying for a PhD program that are not necessarily connected to the classroom experience. This isn’t uninformed. This is truth and you know this.<br>
I was saying that, when one comes down to a decision like this, one should look at other things besides the prestige factor which certainly helps, but if a person does well at a less prestigious school for undergrad, they will generally end up quite well off. And again, I really stand by what I said about prestige not affecting quality of instruction it doesn’t. That’s something hard to gauge without looking at the actual syllabi or coursework, which I actually do (I’m willing to admit that there are many schools more rigorous than we and some other schools are after doing comparisons out of my curiosity). Also, I am always willing to admit when one school is better than the other in certain aspects. I don’t blindly recommend certain places to people. A person who had a Vandy vs. Emory for econ. got a no from me, because I know econ. here isn’t good. I also would not recommend people come here for math or physics. The accolades you post indicate that Duke students do well and get rewards and recognition, it doesn’t indicate that they get better teaching. I’m still betting that the course offerings between Vandy and Duke and most top schools will be more similar than different. I am speaking of the educational experience, not what my peers have achieved in the past. My freshman organic chemistry section had 2 goldwater scholars. I wouldn’t try to connect it to the instruction they got in that class or in other classes and would simply say that they are very driven and would achieve it regardless of the quality of the instruction. Students going to Duke and these top schools are already driven. I don’t think the schools themselves “drive” students to obtain awards.
If I were insecure, I wouldn’t be as blunt about issues I see at Emory, other schools, and in higher education in general. I’m trying to make the point that people seem to choose schools for just “the prestige” and past achievements associated with the school and hardly do research into the academics that they pursue at said college. I really do believe that, especially when finances come into play, one should really look at the program of study, and compare them side-by-side, without regard to rankings, to see if they are as different as rankings or prestige should suggest. Despite the awards the student bodies may be achieving, I’m willing to bet that if you go sit in classrooms (particularly outside of the sciences and engineering) at many of these top institutions, you probably will not see much of a difference. When I post, this is the point I’m trying to make. That institutions, especially top ones, are more similar than different, in terms of “educational” quality and that one should really just see which program of study is more fitting to their desires (after finances of course). I don’t think teachers at Duke (Harvard, anywhere) say: “Well some of you may become Rhodes Scholars one day, so I’m going to try a different style of pedagogy” or “to turn some of you into award winners, I’m gonna teach better”. Do you think Harvard undergraduate students are great because of the instruction they receive. Again, studies suggest otherwise. If you want me to find them, I will and post them.</p>

<p>Also, to say that you had an intellectual experience at Duke as a classics major introduces bias. An intellectual experience among undergraduates on the whole campus (all majors) is what I speak of, and “life of the mind” is definitely not as present at Duke (nor many other top 20s, I’m trying to be fair here) as it is at many of the Ivies unless something dramatically changed in maybe the last 5 years. I will lend some credence to the idea that there may have been improvement, the discussions and amount of articles concerning have decreased over that period of time. I don’t know if that shows a change in attitude on the campus or a simple cease in emphasis of the issue.</p>

<p>^
That strikes me as a much more fair and balanced post than your first, which struck me as oddly antagonistic toward Duke.</p>

<p>Yes, I would certainly agree with you that prestige should be a negligible factor, and academics should certainly come into play. I have often recommended Emory to students interested in public health, for instance, due to its enviable position next to the CDC. </p>

<p>When I recommend Duke to students - which I try to do sparingly - it is because I believe it particularly fits that student and has a great deal to offer him/her. Prestige is all well and good, but you don’t really find yourself caring about that when you’re in college (or afterwards, for that matter). </p>

<p>

Eh, you’ll find that GPAs are notoriously tricky things to compute and compare. Berkeley Law once considered Duke more difficult than Vanderbilt or Emory, for instance.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2431156-post15.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2431156-post15.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Perhaps Duke is more rigorous than Vandy or Emory. Perhaps the reverse is true. Quite frankly, I’m not sure it’s important. I doubt any of us can really compare without attending more than one university. </p>

<p>

Well, no. This is a common misconception among people unfamiliar with graduate admissions, though the confusion is understandable. The confusion arises, I think, from the fact that grade inflation has virtually no effect whatsoever on graduate school admissions but is immensely important for professional school admissions. </p>

<p>Graduate programs care only about research, academic preparation, letters of recommendation, and a strong writing sample. GPAs and GRE scores are virtually negligible factors above a certain threshold (typically 3.0+ and 500-600 per section).</p>

<p>For the record, I could post the articles I refer to about Duke’s issues with intellectualism on campus. I actually applaud Duke for engaging the issue beyond the faculty level (as in when an article was put out about it, students would care enough to respond), so realizing that it was an issue is good I suppose.</p>

<p>Actually, that’s what I was thinking of, the professional schools. While Duke does produce lots of PhD candidates, I think it’s still very much a pre-professional factory like many top 20s. So in that case, grade inflation helps. Duke places extremely well into top professional programs. Even in context of PhD programs, would anyone argue that going to a prestigious school that grades easy-moderate, and already being able to test well (thus do solidly on the GRE) hurt top PhD program chances? Also, easier grading and less rigor may leave a lot more room for ECs and research. So it’s a win, win, correct?
Oh, and that study is very old (the law school one). Grades have gone up a bit everywhere since then. And I also admit that Emory social sciences and humanities aren’t but so rigorous. As a chem/bio double major (non-premed), I take plenty of them, and while some challenge me in terms of a meaningful workload, the grading isn’t that harsh. I think it’s the Swat(Swarthmore effect) for some classes. There average GPA is 3.5+ yet they are considered very rigorous and “hard to get an A”. My guess is that the workload is heavy (haven’t really looked into it, but if it’s like Reed, I believe it, except that Reed grades more like an engineering school), but not graded that harsh.</p>

<p>Oh, and sorry for double post but:
Again, I also think you can compare rigor/workload. As a science student, I got curious and went on peer school websites to prowl for P-Sets and exams and compared to what I did/had. A lot of info. is available on the websites, even regarding the curriculum. So one can at least try and search for a syllabus or something (many schools have plenty of syllabi available, go to search bar, and type in the course number or name). You’ll be surprised how much info. one can gain w/o being directly in the classroom. I think, for a social science or humanities course, a syllabus is indicative, and for a science course, and exam or problem set is example. One can simply look and determine, which one looks tougher/more useful to them and maybe see if there is a pattern.</p>

<p>Also, many here seem to conclude that the law school rankings don’t make much sense:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/167716-rankings-toughest-schools-get.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/167716-rankings-toughest-schools-get.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For example, generally MIT would not be regarded as easier than Duke, Harvard, Swat, or Williams for that matter. I think the chart indicates that people at such schools, even w/lower GPAs can do well on standardized test (means they’re really good at standardized testing). Doesn’t indicate rigor.</p>

<p>OP cingrate on your acceptances. Let me say that I used to be at Duke (transferred out ASAP) and it was full of self righteous students who openly cheat on essays and tests.</p>

<p>There’s a prevalence of over achieving Asians who compare GPAs at lunch time (no racism here, I’m Asian myself!). I know one of them back in HS. She was accepted ED and as soon as she was officially a Dukie, she ABANDONED all of her officer duties in every club and proceeded to wear Blue Devil shirts 4 days a week. </p>

<p>Sad anecdote aside, you should know Duke is full of these kinds… Irresponsible and selfishly driven.</p>

<p>Of course there are the exceptions. But if you want to avoid a place where an unusual large amount of these students congregate, do NOT come to Duke.</p>

<p>I’m not thoroughly familiar with either school. I’ve been on a tour of Duke, and I’ve read the college ******* pages of Vandy.</p>

<p>From what I’ve read and from what our Duke tour guide expressed, you may want to consider how you feel about Greek Life.</p>

<p>It certainly isn’t for everyone (including probably myself). My impression is that while both schools have similar Greek involvement percentages, it is a more prominent part of social life at Vandy.</p>

<p>Can anyone verify?</p>

<p>ah, I find the self-righteous part hard to believe. Cheating is somewhat prevalent at many schools. Unfortunately, I witnessed it here on a large scale in my calc. 1 class. What was weird, was that it was the Korean international students. No offense, but I was wondering: “why exactly do you guys need to cheat”. But weird enough, it was one of the only classes I observed it. I think the pressure to get a high GPA at a top school pushes some to cheat, Duke isn’t unique there. As for Asians, you could be right, since Vandy has less of them lol. However, again I may unintentionally offend, but isn’t that somewhat typical of some Asian students. I observe it in some degrees here (but not too much open discussion of their own GPA, more like being very competitive and zealous about a grade).<br>
I assure you that at any top institutions, you’ll get these. As for your peer’s celebration. I’d imagine there are such anecdotes applying to other schools, especially at top 10s (picture what some people do when they get into say Columbia or Yale).
Again, the anecdotes are but so useful. If you’re going to tell them not to go, simply say, “it costs too much” or something.
Other than the environment, did you find the academics to be good? That’s would be useful info.
imasophomore: Your tourguide didn’t talk about Vandy did they? That would seem inappropriate and also would present a conflict of interest. Also, the Greek life could be true. At schools w/prominent football teams (or ones deemed important by the student body, good or bad record wise), it seems the greek-life and the social scene associated w/football kind of reinforce each other, at least this seems to be the case at state schools. Regardless of this, I’d imagine that Duke has quite the interesting social/party scene due to the success/fervor associated with their basketball team. However, someone from Duke would have to speak on the nature and extent of the two’s relation (don’t they have a rather unwarranted stereotype of being a “jock school”?one for smart, more wealthy people at that).</p>

<p>no no they didn’t speak about vandy on the duke tour.</p>