last-minute money issues re: tuition - what should I do/say to college?

Parents Forum
61

<p>I know someone in a similar situation. Father was a prof at Pitt. She would get free tuition there. He would not pay a dime for college and even refused to fill out the financial aid forms like PROFILE where his assets were considered, so she could not get any aid from such colleges, which are the ones that tend to give more generous aid packages. Not that it mattered, since he made enough money that substantial aid from such schools was not in the picture. Mother was in dire financial straits and could not pay the EFC. REally, the school where she got the tuition for free was by far her best option. Taking off a year was not going to change that picture. Where else could she go? Community college? Penn State is stingy with aid. Pitt is a fine school, met her needs academically, and it was possible for her to go there without bothering her already financially distressed mother. She could commute there which made her costs really just commuting expenses. No, she did not want to have anything to do with her father, and she did not want to go to PItt. She wanted to go away to college. But it was not possible. Scores not high enough to get merit money. So she sucked it down and went to Pitt for free, had a part time job for extra money, took some subsidized Staffords for books and other expenses.</p>

<p>In a couple of years, her father did cool down, and even contributed money and a car to the daughter. But that hot year, she was not going to get a danged thing out of him without treading carefully.</p>

62

<p>

</p>

<p>I don’t agree at all. It seems to me that we have gotten one side of the story, and one side only. I see a lot of little red flags that are alerting me to what the other side might be. The only facts I see are that the dad has held off signing paperwork until he meets with the kid, and the kid apparently has not had much contact with the dad recently. There is no indication that the father ever agreed to pay his “share” – the OP referred to an “ambiguous” divorce decree that requires him to pay much less.</p>

<p>I don’t put a whole lot of credence in the dad wants to meet to yell at the kid concern either. I did suggest that the OP bring a friend if she is afraid of that-- but there’s been a divorce, people get angry, and teenagers often complain that their parents “yell” at them – even when the parents are behaving very appropriately, or there’s a good reason for the yelling. So we don’t know what the situation is.</p>

<p>Here is what I see as the possible other side of the story: </p>

<p>There might be a bona fide disagreement about what the dad was expected to pay. The “ambiguity” in the divorce decree might arise because the dad thinks the employee benefit comes out of his share, while the mom wants to add it on top of his share. Huge difference in expectations there.</p>

<p>Another factor: when I did the math, the overall COA the OP talked about included living on campus. But the OP has also told us that the mom got the house in the divorce, and it is also clear that the house is near enough to the college to be an easy commute. So maybe the Dad miffed that he’s given up the nice big house so that his ex and his kid have a nice place to live, and now the kid expects him to pay for a dorm on top of that. (Obviously, dorm or not, this kid isn’t really going to get the “away” experience of college) Plus, as a college prof, he might be in a position to know the reputation of the particular dorm the student has chosen – I mean he may be seeing a situation where the mom & kid expect him to fork over dollars to put the kid up in Party Central. </p>

<p>So I’m seeing a possibility where the dad thought all along that he would owe nothing after signing off on the tuition benefit – and the mom not only expects the dad to pay half the remaining tuition but also a big chunk of the kid’s on-campus living expenses as well. </p>

<p>If I add to this picture an acrimonious divorce in which the kid has been avoiding contact with the father, perhaps with the mom’s encouragement – the mom might have led the kid to believe that there was an understanding about the money that never existed. So perhaps the other side is that dad thought all along he’s sign the papers and that would be taking care of his full obligation – and only found out recently that the mom expected more. I also note that the mom seems pretty quick to come up with a Plan B to cover the costs, which makes me suspect that she knew all along that the dad wasn’t all that keen on Plan A.</p>

<p>Again, we don’t know. But the reason I mentioned my legal experience a few posts back is that there always is another side the story. I learned very early in my career to listen for the holes and the missing pieces in the story my client’s gave me at our initial consultation, because sure enough, I’d alway find out what that other side was. I counted myself lucky – and my client as “honest” – if there were only gaps of information and missing pieces to be filled in, as opposed to outright lies and misrepresentations of the situation from my client. And I avoided taking on divorces, because divorce clients were always the worst. Maybe it is the emotions of the situation that clouds each side’s ability to see and appreciate the truth – or an inner sense of being wronged and feeling that any tactic whatsoever to get back at the other partner is justified – but divorce clients were often unreasonable and unrealistic in their perceptions of the situation… </p>

<p>Again – I don’t think the OP should be in the middle of the parental warfare. I’m sure the dad is probably talking about his ex & the kid to co-workers, but he may be talking about the things causing him frustration and emotional pain, such as the estrangement from the kid. The mom is probably saying bad things to the kid about the dad – again, sharing her own frustration and emotional pain – and that is probably also coloring the kid’s perception of things. </p>

<p>But it doesn’t add up for me that the dad is such a terrible monster, and yet the kid wants to attend school at a place where the dad is well-respected and influential on campus. I’m seeing the other side of the coin – kid is caught in the middle, is angry at the father for leaving the mom and whatever led to the split, but respects the father and wants to be closer to him, and may have seen moving out of mom’s house onto the dad’s campus as a way of doing just that. </p>

<p>So I’m not ready to choose up sides just yet. </p>

<p>I’ll be interested in knowing how the lunch meeting goes with the dad, if the OP decides to come back and let us know how things turn out.</p>

63

<p>No choosing sides here. But I do know that things often get heated during a bitter split and there is no telling what the reasons are. Money plays a role in this, and often the kids get in the middle if they have monetary needs that one parent or the other is supposed to pay. Whatever the reason, whatever the story, I hope that the OP has a productive meetiing with her father and that her college costs are settled.</p>

64

<p>

</p>

<p>Given the possibility of saving a lot of money by commuting, it might not be that wise to apply somewhere else. In addition, despite arrangements among schools, the OP might also lose the family scholarship. For a full pay student, that would be hard to overcome.</p>

<p>Then, there is the issue of reapplying … if the student was admitted at a highly selective school (which seems to be the case) it might not be easy to secure another admittance. </p>

<p>All in all, this might be one the best cases to ask for a one year deferral and use the time to work on both the financial situation, the financial aid, and the new family dynamics. There is always a chance that time might erode some of the raw nerves.</p>

65

<p>Hopefully the other professors will be able to surmise that his misrepresentations are just that - the ugly words of a bitter father. I know a lot of professors - I’m a graduate student at an Ivy - and very few of them would give their students a subpar grade just because their colleague in another department told them their kid was a loser.</p>

66

<p>Xiggi’s idea is excellent. If the visit with Dad does not go well, that is the way to go. Things may well be settled down some more in a year. Perhaps other alternatives can be explored that are not options at this late date. The OP can have a clearer picture on exactly what the father is legally bound to cover and can force it out of him if necessary. The alternatives will be clearer.</p>

67

<p>“Your mom is prepared to pay her share - which is $14k”</p>

<p>“Your dad was supposed to pay his share - $22k + scholarship for a total of $36k?”</p>

<p>^Is this the reality of the situation? Is it going to cost $50,000/yr at this particular school?
If so, I can see your father’s reluctance to being the major contributor to $50,000/yr for the next 4 years. </p>

<p>We don’t know the whole story. OP–meet with your father and listen to what he has to say.
There will be some raw emotions involved in the conversation, but this is understandable.
Maybe he would like you to hear his side of the story. I’m not saying he’s right or wrong.
Express your feelings and thoughts and let him express his feelings and thoughts. Hopefully, the two of you can find some common ground. Maybe you’ll both learn a little something about each other–be it good or bad. </p>

<p>I hope the meeting goes well and things get sorted out between you and your Dad.</p>

68

<p>If she gets the “scholarship” which seems to me something given to employees’ children and has to have paperwork from the employee, and if Mom pays the $14K, and if she commutes, she might be able to do this. When things settle down, maybe Dad will come up with the funds so the OP can live on campus. If there is still a gap in the scenario I’ve described, the OP can get Stafford loans.</p>

69

<p>You should fill out the FAFSA with mom. Though it is probably too late to get any fin aid, and your school may be a PROFILE schoo, the FAFSA can be filed with just your mom since she is the custodial parent. This will make you eligible for the unsubsidized Staffords, at least, in any case, and maybe even for the subsidized and workstudy depending on your mother’s finances. Home equity is not counted on the FAFSA so that is not an issue. If your mom’s income is very low, and she has little in assets other than the house, you just might qualify for the PELL. How is she and you coming up with the $14K? If you are in difficult straits, commuting should really be the way to go. Boarding schools even at the college level is expensive and for those who can pay for it.</p>

70

<p>I’m starting to feel for the Dad.</p>

<p>Obviously, I don’t know the facts- but I have a neighbor who went through a messy divorce a few years ago. She insisted on keeping the house. H wanted to sell it, divide the proceeds, allow everyone to move on. She wouldn’t hear of it- so she got the house. Dad moved into a nice but inexpensive rental close by so the kids could walk to either place after getting off the school bus. Although it involved some juggling by the kids, they basically had the option of spending nights and weekends at either parents. Mom was in the 5 bedroom, fully furnished home- dad was in the rental with bookcases from Ikea.</p>

<p>Fast forward. Oldest is ready for college and dad is prepared to do his share per the agreement. Mom pleads poverty- she’s only working part time after all, she’s a divorcee. Dad points out that he’s been paying child support and alimony, living frugally. Mom’s been maintaining a lifestyle which she cannot afford-- so maybe it’s time for Mom to get with the program, sell the house, use some of the proceeds for a modest condo or small house, and use the rest to pay her share of college.</p>

<p>Mom refuses- because the housing market has tanked, and the house is worth much less than it would have been a few years ago had she sold it when the H wanted to. And because why should she “trade down” her lifestyle to pay for college- let H do it, or let the kid “get financial aid- that’s what it’s for”.</p>

<p>So poor kid has taken a year off while they go back to court.</p>

<p>Nobody is right and nobody is wrong- but since I know my neighbors situation, it would be unfair for someone who didn’t know it to conclude that the dad is the villain of the piece. He’s wondering why his lifestyle has taken a dramatic hit post-divorce so that he can be close to his kids, pay alimony, save money for college. And yet the wife won’t get with the program and recognize that she too needs to scale down her lifestyle to free up cash to pay for college. Nor will she get a real job. </p>

<p>So even though the kids have a fine and loving relationship with the non custodial dad-- he still looks like a bum.</p>

<p>OP- meet your dad in a public place. Hear him out. Sounds like there’s no black and white here but many shades of gray. Perhaps he and your mom and decided a long time ago to use the house to pay for college when the time came. And now your mom doesn’t want to. That doesn’t make her a bad person, but it doesn’t make him evil either.</p>

71

<p>I agree, meet your dad and hear him out, you don’t have to agree to anything at that moment, but if he wants to meet you there is a reason.</p>

72

<p>In every case that I have known, but one, the dad was the villain. Most of the time it was the rage of the moment and things did get better once everything settled down. I know one dad who was so enraged that the court ruled that he had to continue to pay private school tuition k-12, when he wanted them taken out and put into public school, that he refused to pay for college because he could. </p>

<p>The real situation usually is that the money is very tight after a nasty divorce and no one has enough to pay out more than what the court orders. It’s a tough situation. </p>

<p>In all fairness, most divorced parents I know make a great effort to contribute to their non custodial kids including college costs, and are glad to do so. There is no question of that obligation as it was expected. A close friend of mine was as step mom to two college kids and she was fully aware and on board with the fact that her husband was paying for two very expensive colleges and that her standard of living had to take that into account. It was non negotiable, and she treated it that way too.</p>

73

<p>It’s wrong to make any assumptions regarding this father. We are not privy to all that has transpired in this family and it’s none of our business. IMO–to imply that this man is some sort of villain is a bit much.</p>

<p>I hope the meeting between the Dad and the daughter goes well. Perhaps the words exchanged will foster a new understanding and be the building blocks for a more positive relationship between them.</p>

74

<p>Yes, it would be wrong to make assumptions about the father or the mother or the daughter (perhaps the dad is upset with the D over something entirely different than finances). The OP will learn when she meets with the dad.</p>

75

<p>She insisted on keeping the house. H wanted to sell it, divide the proceeds, allow everyone to move on. She wouldn’t hear of it- so she got the house. Dad moved into a nice but inexpensive rental close by</p>

<p>Huh? Didn’t the exwife have to “buy out” his share? If so, what difference does it make to him? Many ex-wives negotiate to keep the house, the man then pays out less of his 401k or retirement or the wife remortgages the house and pays him off of his share of the equity. It’s not like he gets screwed. </p>

<p>With home prices deflated these days, and realtors taking 6% off the top, getting a home ready to be sold (usually takes some sizable dough!) and then selling and dividing the equity after divorce often means neither side gets much money. Besides, if he wasn’t going to be living in the house while it’s on the market, was he going to compensate the ex to keep the house “show ready” during the selling time? I doubt it. That’s one of the things the wife often gets stuck with while the H is off in his little apt or with his new honey. </p>

<p>Sorry, but I have a friend going through this and it’s a big deal to work full time, take care of the kids, and keep the home “show ready” while the soon-to-be ex husband is relaxing in his apt. She should be compensated for this. </p>

<p>I don’t feel sorry for the OP’s dad at all. He’s in education; he knows how important a college education is. If he was a laborer, I might understand his lack of understanding. If he’s having problems with his child, he needs to be the adult and manage the situation so there’s no long term damage to his child’s educational opportunities. The dad is using the child as a pawn against his ex-wife or to get his child to jump thru some arbitrary hoops so he can have the opportunity to yell at the child. That isn’t being fatherly. That is being manipulative. If the dad wants a good relationship with his child, he holds out an olive branch…not a claw.</p>

76

<p>I just want to second juillet’s comment 65. I’ve attended and taught at four different institutions, and I can’t imagine any faculty member I’ve ever known grading a kid based on another faculty member’s opinion, good OR bad. Most professors have a pretty high level of self-esteem when it comes to evaluating work in their fields of expertise and don’t believe they need input from others on how to assess it. Anyway, students get grades based on their performance on papers, exams, and so on; it’s just not all that subjective. </p>

<p>Moreover if a faculty member tried bad-mouthing his OWN KID to other faculty members–especially after a divorce–that behavior would seem so utterly bizarre that I imagine everybody would regard the guy as off his rocker.</p>

<p>Just one less thing to worry about.</p>